Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[dankrutka]

Hopefully you've read the rest of the discussion and have had you questions answered.

I did read the thread, but don’t really feel like there’s been much in the way of specifics as to the Thunder’s overall revenue. I suspect owners would love for people to think they’re losing money so their arenas will be subsidized, but I don’t buy it. The Thunder’s value has skyrocketed since it’s purchase, player contract spending has gone way down, and revenue sharing is way up.

[Pete]

^

According to Forbes, the Thunder is now worth $1.63 billion.

The owners paid $350 million in 2006. That's nearly a 500% return in 15 years not even factoring in profits.


In general, the value of big-league sports franchises has skyrocketed in the U.S.

[Dob Hooligan]

Phil Knight offered $2 billion to Portland Trailblazer caretaker Jody Allen last month. Flat refused. The new media rights deal is going to more than double. Team values will continue to increase at incredible percentages.

@dankrutka I think you are correct. The Thunder makes money and the current CBA helps that to occur. The NBA is currently set up where ownership doesn't lose money like back in the past. That is why franchises increase in value so quickly...and the reason the league isn't in any hurry to expand. No expansion fee could replace the piece of the revenue pie they would take out.

[chssooner]

No, as in the Dream project was planned because they had an inkling the new arena would stay close to that property.

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. I am still hoping that project is able to come to fruition. 2 large hotels, and a true condo tower? Yes please, and it is what OKC needs to step up a level.

A new arena will help with that, as well.

[chssooner]

I did read the thread, but don’t really feel like there’s been much in the way of specifics as to the Thunder’s overall revenue. I suspect owners would love for people to think they’re losing money so their arenas will be subsidized, but I don’t buy it. The Thunder’s value has skyrocketed since it’s purchase, player contract spending has gone way down, and revenue sharing is way up.

My thing is, if the Thunder have an arena, they won't give a rat's behind if it benefits OKC. The Paycom Center holds 50 or so non-Thunder events. If the Thunder make so much money, like you claim, then the arena they build won't serve the city, but only them. And the Paycom Center, without a major tenant, will wallow in obscurity, and begin to lose out on concerts and events, because putting money in it to keep it modern will be a wasted investment.

[Pete]

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. I am still hoping that project is able to come to fruition. 2 large hotels, and a true condo tower? Yes please, and it is what OKC needs to step up a level.

At this point in time, it is definitely moving forward.

[Dob Hooligan]

The players and the NBA split Basketball Related Income 50/50. It works very well. Continuing trends seek to find additional, and expand current, non-Basketball Related Income streams for the ownership. Large scale development of arena adjacent property into year-round revenue sources are what ownership are looking for.

[BoulderSooner]

Regarding Prairie Surf, I'm really happy to see the production they have brought to OKC.

However: 1) they are getting a ridiculously good sweetheart deal; 2) it remains to be seen if they can continue to bring in productions, especially if the pandemic dies down; and 3) if things are still going well for them in the future, there are a ton of sites all over OKC where soundstages could be built.


I really like the Cox site for all the reasons I mentioned and also have a lot of confidence that Howard/Hall will do something great with the old Fred Jones lots. In fact, I have more faith in them than any other developers.

the plan for just tulsa king is like 7 years

[BoulderSooner]

It is funny that Oklahoma gas and electric owns that land.

what land

[Laramie]

My thing is, if the Thunder have an arena, they won't give a rat's behind if it benefits OKC. The Paycom Center holds 50 or so non-Thunder events. If the Thunder make so much money, like you claim, then the arena they build won't serve the city, but only them. And the Paycom Center, without a major tenant, will wallow in obscurity, and begin to lose out on concerts and events, because putting money in it to keep it modern will be a wasted investment.

Disagree.

Why do you think they invested $350 million (Now valued a $1.63 billion) to purchase this franchise to begin with and not give a 'rats ass' about the community they serve; this is home for the ownership group as well.

They purchased this franchise for Oklahoma City. Two of the original owners at the time, showed so much love for our city that their childhood dream was to purchase the 'Dallas Cowboys' and move them to OKC.

A new arena will serve OKC and make us more competitive with NBA & NHL cities above us and those aspiring to lure an NBA franchise to their communities like Nashville, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Las Vegas and Austin.

Recall, Kansas City tried to lure the ownership group to relocate the team to KC after relocation of the Supersonics was approved by the NBA Board of Governors.

Truth be told, some Seattleites would love for the Thunder to be plucked from our city and the ownership group tarred and feathered.

.

[chssooner]

Disagree.

Why do you think they invested $350 million (Now valued a $1.63 billion) to purchase this franchise to begin with and not give a 'rats ass' about the community they serve; this is home for the ownership group as well.

They purchased this franchise for Oklahoma City. Two of the original owners at the time, showed so much love for our city that their childhood dream was to purchase the 'Dallas Cowboys' and move them to OKC.

A new arena will serve OKC and make us more competitive with NBA & NHL cities above us and those aspiring to lure an NBA franchise to their communities like Nashville, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Las Vegas and Austin.

Recall, Kansas City tried to lure the ownership group to relocate the team to KC after relocation of the Supersonics was approved by the NBA Board of Governors.

Truth be told, some Seattleites would love for the Thunder to be plucked from our city and the ownership group tarred and feathered.

.

They purchased them, then haven't added a dime in renovation or expansion of the arena costs. I am just saying.

[Laramie]

They purchased them, then haven't added a dime in renovation or expansion of the arena costs. I am just saying.

They don't own the arena. The arenas we build are used for more than the community and not just exclusively for NBA Thunder basketball franchise. Using your logic, do we ask everyone or group who uses the arena to chip in toward expansion or arena cost.

The Oklahoma City Thunder have done more to change the image of our City--more than any one source in our city.

The 844 ft. high Devon Energy Center wouldn't be here without the Thunder and MAPS' series of voter approved initiatives. Are the other groups who have benefited chipped in their dimes.

[shartel_ave]

They don't own the arena. The arenas we build are used for more than the community and not just exclusively for NBA Thunder basketball franchise. Using your logic, do we ask everyone or group who uses the arena to chip in toward expansion or arena cost.

The Oklahoma City Thunder have done more to change the image of our City--more than any one source in our city.

The 844 ft. high Devon Energy Center wouldn't be here without the Thunder and MAPS' series of voter approved initiatives. Are the other groups who have benefited chipped in their dimes.

I agree, I’d love to see more low income housing built but the money the thunder brings in does so much for local downtown businesses and spills over into every district in the core like automobile alley, deep deuce, film row, arts district, plaza, ironworks, Asian district, uptown 23rd, Paseo , western Ave and on and on

The new arena will create so many jobs and the ripple effect will be insane

[Teo9969]

I'm still a huge believer in the untapped potential in Bricktown and we've already spent a huge amount there.

My biggest criticism about how our city continues to develop is that we keep jumping over areas and spreading out development and even public investment. OKANA is shaping up to be amazing but will be a complete island unto itself that will only marginally benefit everything else in downtown. Sure wish we could have found a way to do all that on the Coop site! And just imagine if the Wheeler District was on the site of Strawberry Fields! I realize why these developments happened where they did but the arena is different; it's a city project and the public will pay for it. Just like the convention center, the main driver in a new location should be what is best for the city overall, not just what's best for the Thunder.

I walked around Bricktown last night around 9PM. I don't think even the most avid OKCTalk posters realize how busy it can get. Nothing really going on that I could tell and it was still blazing hot yet thousands of people were everywhere, walking around, eating, drinking and sitting outside. It's still the only place in OKC where you get that type of massive gathering which is so important for a city to have a sense of place.

And yet, at least half of that area is un- or under-developed. I would sure hate to move the arena any farther away from Bricktown.

The COOP is right by Bricktown as well, so I think you can still capitalize on what you're saying by going to Bricktown, maybe even slightly more so because there's nowhere else exciting to go except into Bricktown from the COOP site.

I think it was during the talk about where the convention center should go and we had talked about putting it right back on the Cox site, and someone said "Everything looks like it should go on the Cox site because it's the most valuable real estate in the entire city. Truly the best spot for the arena is where it stands right now, but that being barred, I just don't see how a new arena is highest and best use for the Cox land. I don't know how you really manage the valuations but with the improvements on the current Paycom site, I feel like you could get a lot of bang for your buck doing a swap with the current owners of the COOP. Add in the MAPS 4 funds and Thunder Alley funds and I think you're looking at a relatively practical Bond issue to finish out the area to be a pretty awesome little Sports district downtown.

[TheTravellers]

The COOP is right by Bricktown as well, so I think you can still capitalize on what you're saying by going to Bricktown, maybe even slightly more so because there's nowhere else exciting to go except into Bricktown from the COOP site.

I think it was during the talk about where the convention center should go and we had talked about putting it right back on the Cox site, and someone said "Everything looks like it should go on the Cox site because it's the most valuable real estate in the entire city. Truly the best spot for the arena is where it stands right now, but that being barred, I just don't see how a new arena is highest and best use for the Cox land. I don't know how you really manage the valuations but with the improvements on the current Paycom site, I feel like you could get a lot of bang for your buck doing a swap with the current owners of the COOP. Add in the MAPS 4 funds and Thunder Alley funds and I think you're looking at a relatively practical Bond issue to finish out the area to be a pretty awesome little Sports district downtown.

Sorry, but have to be pedantic here. COOP is the beer maker who is going in at the Armory, and Co-Op is the old cotton oil mill site.

[David]

^

I know the Thunder owners want a more interactive and mixed-use experience around the arena; that was the whole idea behind Thunder Alley which is now on hold.

I'm not against the old Fred Jones lots, but the city has already made it clear they want to keep Harvey open, which is the main way to get from the CBD and Myriad Gardens to Scissortail Park and the river beyond.

Wouldn't be the end of the world if the arena goes there, but you know the current owners are going to do something great (collectively, they've done the best urban development in town and on a large scale) so I'd rather see the arena replace the aging concrete monolith that is the old Cox Center. I also think that site would drive more people to Bricktown, a place where a massive amount of public and private dollars have been spent.

Using the Cox site would also be much cheaper for the city and citizens who will be footing the bill.


Either one of those sites would make a lot of sense. I'd be shocked if it went to the Producers Coop or Strawberry Fields and I sure hope that doesn't happen.

I've been moderately vocal about being a no vote if and when this goes up for a vote, but a new arena as a part of a mixed-use development plan on the Cox site would be a real easy way to make me eat my words.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
That’s a pretty likely outcome if the Cox site is chosen. That super block is even larger than the plot where Paycom sits, and Paycom has a hotel and a parking garage. There is beyond ample space on the Cox site for integrated ancillary development; the proximity to the CBD, Bricktown and MBG makes it extra valuable. Thoughtful mixed use could actually become a financial path to helping cover the cost of the new arena.

[Pete]

^

And there are already 1,000 parking spaces underground. No need for an ugly parking garage.

[chssooner]

They don't own the arena. The arenas we build are used for more than the community and not just exclusively for NBA Thunder basketball franchise. Using your logic, do we ask everyone or group who uses the arena to chip in toward expansion or arena cost.

The Oklahoma City Thunder have done more to change the image of our City--more than any one source in our city.

The 844 ft. high Devon Energy Center wouldn't be here without the Thunder and MAPS' series of voter approved initiatives. Are the other groups who have benefited chipped in their dimes.

Public-private partnerships work. I don't believe it is fair for the Thunder to have to pay for the arena in full. Anyone who says that and truly believes that is asinine, and doesn't live in this world.

I think the should do whatever it takes to keep the Thunder. They are a major engine for downtown.

[Laramie]

We may now have a chance to build an arena comparable to the exterior of the Tulsa BOK Center ($196 million) and as efficient as the Dallas American Airlines Center ($420 million). Hire an expert firm to do a study on using the 4 square block city owned Cox Convention Center site on how best to build a new NBA-NHL arena & Thunder Alley component. If anything like the 947 spaces underneath the site or the 11 miles of pipe for ice making equipment can be salvaged.

We have $105 million budgeted in MAPS 4 for Paycom Center--pause those funds.

Spend $4 million to replace the seats in Paycom Center and $10 million on the Thunder practice facility. Use the Paycom Center for future use as part of the new convention center & Omni Hotel complex once the new arena opens.

[catch22]

I wonder if a land sale would be considered for the Paycom site to help fund the cost of the new arena. That land will be super-prime. Literally sandwiched between the presumptive new arena, the convention center/Omni,, with corners touching the two nicest parks in the city, and the opposite corners within spitting distance of the largest entertainment district in the state. That land, cleared of an arena should be among the most desirable land in the state. Obviously any sale would have to be after the new arena is up and running, but it could be used to retire a significant portion of the bonds that would likely be used.

City is in a great position with a lot of assets that could be helpful in making this work with as little direct cost to the taxpayers. The flexibility here is a unique advantage. I hope when this comes to a vote the taxpayers are presented with a great deal that will easily pass with as little controversy as possible.

[OKC Guy]

Put me down for a hard no on any taxes for this. Our economy is running just fine and is very diversified compared to the past. I've seen the newness wear off and even in the years before covid places were not as into Thunder as before. My neighbor is a huge Thunder fan and flies the flag at his house and all that jazz. Has season tickets. He said he's against any tax increases for them. I have a lot of friends that are also against any taxes for a new stadium.

With MAPS 4 we boxed ourselves in a corner. You can go back to that MAPS 4 thread and I stated many times that doing a 10 year plan was bad for OKC. My reasons were it locked us into a set list of projects and did not allow for flexibility to adjust as our city changes. 10 years is a long time. I wanted to go with 2 year plans and this would allow us to readjust as our needs changed. Had we done that then OKC could have made a new stadium part of a vote for MAPS very quickly. But sentiment in the burbs is MAPS 4 has so much pork compared to previous ones and if OKC now comes and asks for an additional tax on top of MAPS (for a stadium) I have doubts it would pass.

With super inflation (9.1% in Jun) and after businesses dealt with loss of revenue related to Covid - I think people just have no appetite to approve another tax for a stadium. It's not the novelty it once was and I think quite a few people have moved on. Having so many super stars and then watching them all leave highlights what the league is all about. That is, the big market cities can afford to pluck away all the talent from the other cities. Other than Bucks you don't see smaller metro markets win a title, and OKC has become a feeder team. By they time you can draft and develop players the ones at end of first contract can leave. This isn't a slap at fans but to win titles you have to way overspend and that's on ownership. It's a haves and have nots league. OKC can be good and playoffs, but will never sustain top talent due to lux tax penalties. For residents to be taxed on top of MAPS tax is too big a leap.

Had MAPS 4 been shorter then it would have been possible, but still a fight. Citizens are being stretched thin with taxes and inflation and this is very bad timing for owners to ask for money. When one looks at the valuation of the team and how much it's grown, then they turn around and want us to be taxed for a new stadium? I know it's not money in the bank but if the owners sold the team they would make over a billion dollars compared to purchase price - and they won't share that with us the taxpayer if/when they sell the team. Let them build it and we can buy the land and help with outside improvements and daily upkeep. There are so many needs in our city other than Thunder. And I think it's bad timing with majority of city residents.

Does everyone recall when MAPS 1 was approved and the arena was part of it, but was one of the last things to be built? The arena bidder came back to the city and said they had made a huge mistake on the original bid cost (I want to say it was $85M) but because they didn't want to betray the trust of MAPS 1, they would build it at a loss. That's a long time ago but I would guess any new arena would be $500M or more. We own the current arena so if they leave we can use it for new events which brings in revenue as well. Our park and convention center are top notch and we will be just fine with or without Thunder.

[catch22]

Losing the Thunder should be a non-starter.

We have 1 of 30 franchises of one of the most prestigious brands in the world. Tying our name to that worldwide exposure is worth every penny we have invested so far. What a ridiculous take to say we would be fine with or without them. There are hundreds of Oklahoma Citys across the globe,, we are the only city in our size that is mentioned among the likes of New York, Toronto, Miami, and Houston. It is one of the few things that sets us apart from literally every other medium sized city in the country.

[PoliSciGuy]

Whoa I had no idea Clay Bennett had an account on here. Don’t worry sir, I’m sure the OKC voters will swallow this bad argument and invest public money to help increase your franchise’s value, to the detriment of our education and infrastructure systems.

[Laramie]

Our ownership group isn't getting any younger. The franchise is worth $1.63 billion of which the group invested $350 million 16 years ago.
They don't need to put a gun to our city's head--vote this down and be assured they will sell this franchise and cash in their chips.