Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[Plutonic Panda]

I really hope the site between the Myriad and Scissortail isn’t it. That should be a mixed use development with a pedestrian Paseo connecting the two parks.

Will Prairie Surf build a new studio from scratch?

[HFAA Alum]

I think with Prairie Surf Studios already established in the old Cox Center, just west of the current location makes more sense, especially since the building is set to be larger. Harvey could be turned into an underground access for teams and freight. After that, tear down the old peake (my heart is gonna hurt on that one) and redevelop that to mixed development.

This could also be a great opportunity to make it more garden themed since it will be between the Myriad and Scissortail.

I could be wrong.

[chssooner]

Isn't the plan for Prairie Surf to eventually move?

[shawnw]

When I spoke to the co-CEO of prairie a few months ago after a talk he gave he said they were actively looking for replacement sites for when their five year lease was up and that everything was on the table (location wise, funding wise, etc).

[HFAA Alum]

Isn't the plan for Prairie Surf to eventually move?

The better question is where to? They have until 2026 to find out when, plenty of time to accumulate funds forba relocation.

[Laramie]

Isn't the plan for Prairie Surf to eventually move?

I do recall someone posting on here that Prairie Surf were going to eventually build their own studio.

So, as soon as they move out; demolition of the Cox Convention Center could begin. Salvage and reinforce as much of the underground parking as possible.

Paycom Center could be used (reconfigured) for concerts, conventions with new OKC Convention Center and 'AA' level ice hockey (15,152 capacity) and the New NBA Oklahoma City Arena used for NBA basketball, NCAA basketball playoff sites which should boost our level of level of hotel room nights revenue.

OKC should have the new Fairgrounds Coliseum (FC) completed; by then, hotel room nights revenue used to build the new FC can be given back to the city as revenue to fund the new NBA arena.

Channel 6 - Tulsa reports (December 14th 2021): https://www.newson6.com/story/61b93c...oLj9xgpN1Kg_E4

Most of the coliseum’s construction will be funded by the voter-approved MAPS 4 measure, which will provide roughly $63 million. Another $25 million will come from city hotel tax revenues “already earmarked for fairgrounds improvements,” according to the city website and $9 million in MAPS 3 surplus funds.

MAPS 3 surplus funds will aid in additional capital improvements:

Other projects that will be aided by the MAPS 3 surplus will be the allocation of $9 million to the Fairgrounds Coliseum approved in December as part of MAPS 4.

Link: OKC VeloCity MAPS 3 surplus; https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/ins...ack=super_blog

[Urbanized]

…Also, regarding Paycom: my gut says that we’ll have to replace that building before another 20 years elapses. I’d expect us to be on that path within the next decade, in fact.

Prescient post I made weeks ago. To be fair, might’ve been more than just my gut.

[Laramie]

Pete's assessment (Post #2321) on the current super block Cox Convention Center site now home to Prairie Surf Studios (2020 five year lease) appears to be the most economical option. The four block site used for construction the Myriad Convention Center in 1969 was financed by a bond issue. The city currently owns this site.

It seems more economical to demolish the old Cox Convention Center site, salvage the underground parking. The site has more than enough room to build a new NBA/NHL regulation arena.

The Cox Convention Center's arena still has 11 miles of pipe used for ice making equipment still underneath.

Also, give it up to Urbanized, your 'gut feeling' may be coming to fruition.

[Rover]

When I spoke to the co-CEO of prairie a few months ago after a talk he gave he said they were actively looking for replacement sites for when their five year lease was up and that everything was on the table (location wise, funding wise, etc).

They could look at the old cotton mill site. Lots of room for building outdoor sets, storage, etc. Start the clean up now. Could even build movie themed commercial development around them that could double as street locations to shoot from with taller downtown in the background.

[dankrutka]

Bob Howard isn't even one of the 4 biggest owners. And of those owners (Bennett, McClendon Estate, Records & Kaiser) I've been told only Records & Kaiser are strong enough financially to weather the poor attendance and no playoff money much longer.

This doesn’t seem correct. OKC makes a boatload just from revenue sharing, right?

[dankrutka]

Also, that land between the parks should have a higher and better use than just another super block with a monolithic building.

Why can’t arenas be designed to have more active uses outside of games/events? For example, why couldn’t a sports bar in the arena open to the street and have regular hours? They’d just have to lock doors to arena access. During game days/events those places are just open to ticket holders with access only inside the arena. I get there are some complications, but I’ve never understood why arenas have to be dead outside of events.

[Pete]

^

I know the Thunder owners want a more interactive and mixed-use experience around the arena; that was the whole idea behind Thunder Alley which is now on hold.

I'm not against the old Fred Jones lots, but the city has already made it clear they want to keep Harvey open, which is the main way to get from the CBD and Myriad Gardens to Scissortail Park and the river beyond.

Wouldn't be the end of the world if the arena goes there, but you know the current owners are going to do something great (collectively, they've done the best urban development in town and on a large scale) so I'd rather see the arena replace the aging concrete monolith that is the old Cox Center. I also think that site would drive more people to Bricktown, a place where a massive amount of public and private dollars have been spent.

Using the Cox site would also be much cheaper for the city and citizens who will be footing the bill.


Either one of those sites would make a lot of sense. I'd be shocked if it went to the Producers Coop or Strawberry Fields and I sure hope that doesn't happen.

[Urbanized]

Why can’t arenas be designed to have more active uses outside of games/events? For example, why couldn’t a sports bar in the arena open to the street and have regular hours? They’d just have to lock doors to arena access. During game days/events those places are just open to ticket holders with access only inside the arena. I get there are some complications, but I’ve never understood why arenas have to be dead outside of events.

One of the challenges is that there are too many entities that get a cut of every food and beverage item sold, which drives prices up beyond market rate for non-game days. In other words, when a hot dog is sold at the arena a portion of that revenue goes to the F&B operator, ASM (operator of the building), but also to the team and to the City.

If you buy a beer you get yet another fee added to that. In the case of Paycom, just the City of OKC gets 14.99% of liquor sales. Why 14.99%, you may ask? Because ABLE requires any entity receiving 15% of revenue from any liquor license in Oklahoma to be listed as an owner on the license application, and the City of OKC by charter cannot be in the business of liquor sales.

That multi-layer revenue payout is why prices are higher than a hot dog sold down the street. We accept it when we are at the game, because we are a captive audience and because we expect it. But if you walk into the same place for lunch on a Tuesday you are probably going to turn on your heel when you see the prices.

A good example of this is when Hideaway had a window at the Bricktown Ballpark. They tried like hell to have that window open to serve on non-game days, and succeeded for a year or two. But the RedHawks’ cut of the action drove pizzas up to like $25/pie, and this was in the early-mid aughts. It was unsustainable.

All of that said, that could surely be dealt with as part of an agreement where someone agrees to take less contract fee on non-game days. I also believe the idea behind the new and improved Thunder Alley was to have at least some of their storefronts open throughout the week. I think what you are describing is likely the new frontier of arenas (and already exists in some places). I suspect this level of year-around, street-level engagement will be a part of the new arena’s plans, and that added revenue stream is probably one of the things they are after and will be a part of the new NBA arena standard.

[scottk]

Using the Cox site would also be much cheaper for the city and citizens who will be footing the bill.

+1
Seems to be the most economical and logical and replaces a very dated/boring building that has served its purpose well.

Not sure what you do with the existing Paycom Center? Could it be developed into a venue for the convention center similar to what Fort Worth has at their Convention Center?

If the Big12 basketball tournaments could make their way back to OKC, the men and women's tourney's across the street seemed like a unique offering.

[Urbanized]

^

I know the Thunder owners want a more interactive and mixed-use experience around the arena; that was the whole idea behind Thunder Alley which is now on hold.

I'm not against the old Fred Jones lots, but the city has already made it clear they want to keep Harvey open, which is the main way to get from the CBD and Myriad Gardens to Scissortail Park and the river beyond.

Wouldn't be the end of the world if the arena goes there, but you know the current owners are going to do something great (collectively, they've done the best urban development in town and on a large scale) so I'd rather see the arena replace the aging concrete monolith that is the old Cox Center. I also think that site would drive more people to Bricktown, a place where a massive amount of public and private dollars have been spent.

Using the Cox site would also be much cheaper for the city and citizens who will be footing the bill.


Either one of those sites would make a lot of sense. I'd be shocked if it went to the Producers Coop or Strawberry Fields and I sure hope that doesn't happen.

Agreed. It’s almost certain to be the former Cox center site, barring an unforeseen development of some nature. My gut tells me that is what the City is already anticipating. It also explains why the Prarie Surf lease happened the way that it did. PSM created a solid placeholder that could help establish and nurture a new economic driver in the city, but the plan for some time was to preserve that site for the inevitable arena replacement.

[Pete]

I'm sure we would keep Paycom for a while, just like what we've done with the Cox Center.

But, if the new arena does go on that Cox site, then perhaps the Bob Howard / Hall Capital group could ultimately include the Paycom site in the big development to come on the Fred Jones lots.

[catcherinthewry]

This doesn’t seem correct. OKC makes a boatload just from revenue sharing, right?

Hopefully you've read the rest of the discussion and have had you questions answered.

[Urbanized]

I'm sure we would keep Paycom for a while, just like what we've done with the Cox Center.

But, if the new arena does go on that Cox site, then perhaps the Bob Howard / Hall Capital group could ultimately include the Paycom site in the big development to come on the Fred Jones lots.

This arena plan also sheds some new light on the development in the Dream location. The timing is likely not coincidental.

[Pete]

Regarding Prairie Surf, I'm really happy to see the production they have brought to OKC.

However: 1) they are getting a ridiculously good sweetheart deal; 2) it remains to be seen if they can continue to bring in productions, especially if the pandemic dies down; and 3) if things are still going well for them in the future, there are a ton of sites all over OKC where soundstages could be built.


I really like the Cox site for all the reasons I mentioned and also have a lot of confidence that Howard/Hall will do something great with the old Fred Jones lots. In fact, I have more faith in them than any other developers.

[Urbanized]

My gut tells me that Prairie Surf already has it in their long term plans to build a new studio at the end of their Myriad residency, which is TBD. The timeline to get everything rolling on a new arena could allow a short extension beyond the five years before ground would need to be broken, but not much.

[Pete]

This arena plan also sheds some new light on the development in the Dream location. The timing is likely not coincidental.

I'm still a huge believer in the untapped potential in Bricktown and we've already spent a huge amount there.

My biggest criticism about how our city continues to develop is that we keep jumping over areas and spreading out development and even public investment. OKANA is shaping up to be amazing but will be a complete island unto itself that will only marginally benefit everything else in downtown. Sure wish we could have found a way to do all that on the Coop site! And just imagine if the Wheeler District was on the site of Strawberry Fields! I realize why these developments happened where they did but the arena is different; it's a city project and the public will pay for it. Just like the convention center, the main driver in a new location should be what is best for the city overall, not just what's best for the Thunder.

I walked around Bricktown last night around 9PM. I don't think even the most avid OKCTalk posters realize how busy it can get. Nothing really going on that I could tell and it was still blazing hot yet thousands of people were everywhere, walking around, eating, drinking and sitting outside. It's still the only place in OKC where you get that type of massive gathering which is so important for a city to have a sense of place.

And yet, at least half of that area is un- or under-developed. I would sure hate to move the arena any farther away from Bricktown.

[PhiAlpha]

I'm still a huge believer in the untapped potential in Bricktown and we've already spent a huge amount there.

My biggest criticism about how our city continues to develop is that we keep jumping over areas and spreading out development and even public investment. OKANA is shaping up to be amazing but will be a complete island unto itself that will only marginally benefit everything else in downtown. Sure wish we could have found a way to do all that on the Coop site! And just imagine if the Wheeler District was on the site of Strawberry Fields! I realize why these developments happened where they did but the arena is different; it's a city project and the public will pay for it. Just like the convention center, the main driver in a new location should be what is best for the city overall, not just what's best for the Thunder.

I walked around Bricktown last night around 9PM. I don't think even the most avid OKCTalk posters realize how busy it can get. Nothing really going on that I could tell and it was still blazing hot yet thousands of people were everywhere, walking around, eating, drinking and sitting outside. It's still the only place in OKC where you get that type of massive gathering which is so important for a city to have a sense of place.

And yet, at least half of that area is un- or under-developed. I would sure hate to move the arena any farther away from Bricktown.

You hit several nails on the head

[chssooner]

This arena plan also sheds some new light on the development in the Dream location. The timing is likely not coincidental.

As in the Dream is dead?

[Pete]

As in the Dream is dead?

No, as in the Dream project was planned because they had an inkling the new arena would stay close to that property.

[Pete]

Clearly, there have been a lot of behind-the-scenes discussions about this new arena. Holt didn't just decide the day before to spend half his speech on this subject.

And remember, Thunder Alley has been effectively on hold for a couple of years.