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  1. #201

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Would number 1 also allow for grocery store sells?
    Yeah. Anywhere that currently sells 3.2 beer could sell beer and wine.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    And you say Texas has less wine available than us (not sure what that exactly means) but if there is a wine that a Texan wants, they can order it and have it shipped to their house. Cant do that in Oklahoma. Why? Because free market principles are clearly not in play.
    Speaking of this... a friend of mine just did a tour in Napa and they were talking about shipping wine. The wineries there said Utah is the only state they can't ship to. Did something change where we can have wine delivered now? I don't remember hearing anything about it.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    I sometimes wonder how many 'dry' counties would remain 'dry' if there was more stringent enforcement. I suspect liquor by the wink still exists in many places.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWOKCGuy View Post
    Speaking of this... a friend of mine just did a tour in Napa and they were talking about shipping wine. The wineries there said Utah is the only state they can't ship to. Did something change where we can have wine delivered now? I don't remember hearing anything about it.
    Not sure anything has changed. As far as I know, pretty much all strong booze has to go through a wholesaler (the Naifehs, couple others) and cant be mailed directly to your house. Now, not all wineries may be aware of that, or they will risk it and send some anyways. That could be the case here. But I could be wrong.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Not sure anything has changed. As far as I know, pretty much all strong booze has to go through a wholesaler (the Naifehs, couple others) and cant be mailed directly to your house. Now, not all wineries may be aware of that, or they will risk it and send some anyways. That could be the case here. But I could be wrong.
    It's murky. The Supreme Court ruled a little while back that states can't have different laws for in state and out of state wineries. Oklahoma allows you to have wine shipped from an in state winery, so they really aren't supposed to be able to block you from having something from out of state. The trick is you're technically required to order it in person, and you're limited to 1L a month. That being said, I (er... a friend of mine who I can't remember his name...) regularly has wine and beer shipped up from a retail chain in Texas, and hasn't had any problems. There is always a chance of it being seized. I also know for a fact that wine of the month and beer of the month clubs ship here regularly.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Hmm.... Good to know.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    #2. Abolish 3.2 beer but keep liquor under its current classification and regulations. Expand sales to grocery stores. The downsides to this is dry counties would lose alcoholic beverages entirely. Grocery stores could not sell chilled beverages and would have to stop selling at 9PM like liquor stores currently do
    This would be a step backwards in my opinion. The one thing we can not buy anywhere, anytime is chilled beer or wine over 3.2. So, making it so that you could never buy anything chilled anywhere would suck even more.

  8. #208

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Anyone else conflicted on whether it is sad or humorous to still be discussing in late 2014 desired changes to the law which began in a 2010 thread.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinpate View Post
    I sometimes wonder how many 'dry' counties would remain 'dry' if there was more stringent enforcement. I suspect liquor by the wink still exists in many places.
    Isn't that how it was made legal in Oklahoma? Aggressive enforcement by J. Howard Edmondson when he was the Tulsa DA at the places like Elk lodges and country clubs that got the influential people motivated to actually push for legalization (after Edmondson became Governor) since they were no longer assured their access to it would be available?

  10. #210

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    Isn't that how it was made legal in Oklahoma? Aggressive enforcement by J. Howard Edmondson when he was the Tulsa DA at the places like Elk lodges and country clubs that got the influential people motivated to actually push for legalization (after Edmondson became Governor) since they were no longer assured their access to it would be available?
    I remember well when this happened and that played a big part.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Honest question, when I go to states that have more liberal alcohol laws there seems to be just as many liquor stores as there are in Oklahoma (maybe even more). Is there something about Oklahoma that would hurt liquor stores and small business that doesn't seem to be happening in other places.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    The liquor stores simply don't want competition from the grocery stores. While I am sure the liquor stores would be able to survive, their profits would likely take a hit. When I have lived in other states I rarely went to a liquor store being that I am a beer/wine person and could find everything I usually wanted at grocery stores.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    There are lots of beers that I have to go to the liquor store to purchase when I'm traveling. The one area they would really take a hit on is the <$30 wines which I'm sure is the bulk of the wine sales. You still have to go to liquor or wine stores to get the good stuff.

  14. #214

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWOKCGuy View Post
    There are lots of beers that I have to go to the liquor store to purchase when I'm traveling. The one area they would really take a hit on is the <$30 wines which I'm sure is the bulk of the wine sales. You still have to go to liquor or wine stores to get the good stuff.
    When I lived in Charlotte, Harris Teeter had as good of a beer selection as any liquor store here does. Their wine selection was a bit smaller but anything they didn't have you could go to Total Wine for.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWOKCGuy View Post
    There are lots of beers that I have to go to the liquor store to purchase when I'm traveling. The one area they would really take a hit on is the <$30 wines which I'm sure is the bulk of the wine sales. You still have to go to liquor or wine stores to get the good stuff.
    This is the cause of the biggest change you would see. As someone who has experience on the retail side.. the sub $30 wines are the bread and butter of the liquor stores. The profits on those allow the liquor to be sold with 5% and less markup. Very slim margins on the liquor, a little better on the beer, and solid on the wines. I know, if we still had our store, and we lost a significant percentage of wine sales, we would have to raise prices on liquor across the board to survive.

  16. #216

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    If we're going to change those laws we need to do it before the next Presidential election. The number of signatures required to get it on the ballot is far lower right now, because it is a percentage of the voters in the last general election, and turnout was really low this November.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Who will drive Oklahoma alcohol reform? | News OK

    This chat seems to indicate there may be a possibility of moving to single-strength beer on the 2016 ballot. This is something I will believe when I see, but it would be awesome news if it did come to pass.

    He maintains that the real entity that can drive change is big beer (Anheuser-Busch).

  18. #218
    SouthsideSooner Guest

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Who will drive Oklahoma alcohol reform? | News OK

    This chat seems to indicate there may be a possibility of moving to single-strength beer on the 2016 ballot. This is something I will believe when I see, but it would be awesome news if it did come to pass.

    He maintains that the real entity that can drive change is big beer (Anheuser-Busch).
    I wouldn't put much stock in what he wrote.

    Why would A-B wanna go single strength and invite increased competition from Sam Adams and so many others to the dominance of grocery store shelves they currently enjoy? The fact that they have now done a reversal in their corporate policy by bringing their high point beer back in to liquor stores in Oklahoma after over 40 years would indicate just the opposite.

    Their current strategy seems pretty clear. Maintain their dominance in grocery stores while adding new additional sales and profits from liquor stores.

  19. #219

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideSooner View Post
    I wouldn't put much stock in what he wrote.

    Why would A-B wanna go single strength and invite increased competition from Sam Adams and so many others to the dominance of grocery store shelves they currently enjoy? The fact that they have now done a reversal in their corporate policy by bringing their high point beer back in to liquor stores in Oklahoma after over 40 years would indicate just the opposite.

    Their current strategy seems pretty clear. Maintain their dominance in grocery stores while adding new additional sales and profits from liquor stores.
    If I'm AB I bring in 6 point for distribution in liquor stores, and leave 3.2 where it is. 6 days a week for 5 hours 3.2 is the only alcoholic beverage available for sale off-premise and all day on Sunday.

    AB didn't get 50% of the beer market making stupid business decisions like letting monopolies on selling times go away.

  20. #220
    SouthsideSooner Guest

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    If I'm AB I bring in 6 point for distribution in liquor stores, and leave 3.2 where it is. 6 days a week for 5 hours 3.2 is the only alcoholic beverage available for sale off-premise and all day on Sunday.

    AB didn't get 50% of the beer market making stupid business decisions like letting monopolies on selling times go away.
    It's already happening. 6% Bud Light Platinum became available to liquor stores in Oklahoma as of yesterday.

  21. #221

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Maybe AB-InBev is wanting to get away from the 3.2 business. Since they (and SAB-MillerCoors) are foreign owned maybe they wish to streamline their product offerings since Oklahoma requires special labeling. It may be all about reducing costs and squeezing pennies. Even in a 6% grocery store they are still going to dominate shelf space.

    Just speculating on some possible motivation.

  22. #222

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Who will drive Oklahoma alcohol reform? | News OK

    This chat seems to indicate there may be a possibility of moving to single-strength beer on the 2016 ballot. This is something I will believe when I see, but it would be awesome news if it did come to pass.

    He maintains that the real entity that can drive change is big beer (Anheuser-Busch).
    Where you in on that Q&A?

    I was hoping it would have gone longer, I had a flood of questions that went unanswered, all alcohol reform or LOCAL related. Guess I'll have to wait until next month.

  23. #223

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    Maybe AB-InBev is wanting to get away from the 3.2 business. Since they (and SAB-MillerCoors) are foreign owned maybe they wish to streamline their product offerings since Oklahoma requires special labeling. It may be all about reducing costs and squeezing pennies. Even in a 6% grocery store they are still going to dominate shelf space.

    Just speculating on some possible motivation.
    Would that increase profits? No. Does keeping the 3.2 laws the same and putting more 6 point beer in liquor stores increase profits? Yes.

  24. #224

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    If AB wanted to get the laws in Oklahoma changed, all they would have to do is announce that they would stop selling 3.2 beer. Doing so would generate enough public interest that there would likely be a drive to get the laws changed as fast as possible. Right now, consumer apathy is one of the biggest things working against reform. Liquor store owners, MADD groups, and religious groups are all dedicated to preserving the status quo and most Oklahomans don't give much thought to changing the laws. That would all change faced with the prospect of AB products being pulled from OK shelves.

    Along those lines, how difficult would it be to increase the alcohol content allowed to be considered low-point beer? Maybe go from 3.2 to 5% or something? My understanding is that the 3.2 figure comes from the Volstead Act, where the limit was 0.5% during prohibition but then it was increased to 3.2 under Roosevelt in 1933.

  25. #225

    Default Re: Another Oklahoma liquor law Thread 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    If AB wanted to get the laws in Oklahoma changed, all they would have to do is announce that they would stop selling 3.2 beer. Doing so would generate enough public interest that there would likely be a drive to get the laws changed as fast as possible. Right now, consumer apathy is one of the biggest things working against reform. Liquor store owners, MADD groups, and religious groups are all dedicated to preserving the status quo and most Oklahomans don't give much thought to changing the laws. That would all change faced with the prospect of AB products being pulled from OK shelves.

    Along those lines, how difficult would it be to increase the alcohol content allowed to be considered low-point beer? Maybe go from 3.2 to 5% or something? My understanding is that the 3.2 figure comes from the Volstead Act, where the limit was 0.5% during prohibition but then it was increased to 3.2 under Roosevelt in 1933.
    Little known fact. 3.2 beer is actually 3.2% alcohol by weight whereas "6 point" is alcohol by volume. 3.2 by weight converts to about 4% by volume. Whereas "6 point" is actually 4.2%-5% by volume. Crafts are typically 6% or higher. Truth be told, while distribution is tricky, Crafts like not being next to the giants of beer and competing against them for shelf space.

    Realbeer.com: Beer Alcohol Content And Carbs In Beer
    The 3.2 Myth | Cover Story | Salt Lake City Weekly

    Oh and you forgot the other titan in the industry. The Naifeh family. Between AB and the Naifeh's, the only changes you'll see are the ones they want.

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