Oklahoma liquor laws

[bille]

Liquor laws aren't just screwed up in Oklahoma, they pretty much in every state and at the federal level. Especially for those in the business of liquor.

Boulder Daily Camera - Taps flowing again at Boulder's Mountain Sun after ill-timed beer seizure lifted

Perhaps but I'd trade ours for just about any other state, they all seem to be doing better in terms of craft beer availability and local brewpubs/breweries.

[bluedogok]

Perhaps but I'd trade ours for just about any other state, they all seem to be doing better in terms of craft beer availability and local brewpubs/breweries.

I think that probably has more to do with the distributors in Oklahoma than the laws and available retail shelf space. There aren't any 80,000sf liquor stores in OKC that I know of and those are the ones that tend to stock almost everything. Hard to get the shelf space necessary in 1,500 sf stores.

[bille]

I think that probably has more to do with the distributors in Oklahoma than the laws and available retail shelf space. There aren't any 80,000sf liquor stores in OKC that I know of and those are the ones that tend to stock almost everything. Hard to get the shelf space necessary in 1,500 sf stores.

Sorry but I have to disagree. The reason why most highly sought after craft beers that travel through our state to get to surrounding states is mostly related to our laws. Several of those breweries will blame the refrigeration issue and to a degree that is it, cold storage is certainly warranted and I can give my alcohol staling in relation to temperature spill to justify why it's a concern to many breweries but honestly there's more to it than that....I think! Either way, IMO the reason why we aren't seeing the Stone, New Belgium, DFH, Oskar Blues, etc. is due to our laws here, not shelf space.

Of course being a former liquor store owner I'm sure Jerry can chime in and validate or completely sweep the carpet out from under me.

[jerrywall]

Sorry but I have to disagree. The reason why most highly sought after craft beers that travel through our state to get to surrounding states is mostly related to our laws. Several of those breweries will blame the refrigeration issue and to a degree that is it, cold storage is certainly warranted and I can give my alcohol staling in relation to temperature spill to justify why it's a concern to many breweries but honestly there's more to it than that....I think! Either way, IMO the reason why we aren't seeing the Stone, New Belgium, DFH, Oskar Blues, etc. is due to our laws here, not shelf space.

Of course being a former liquor store owner I'm sure Jerry can chime in and validate or completely sweep the carpet out from under me.

I'm sure the laws are the reason for some of them, but you'll see states with similar laws having those micros we're lacking (heck, Colorado is pretty close to our laws).

The biggest problem is our market is still catching up. 10 years ago the beers sold in Oklahoma were very limited, and the list has been growing at a very quick basis, but it still takes time. Pretty much every state has a broker/wholesale system. What this means is, when a brewery wants to enter a new market, they have to contract with a broker to be "repped" in that state. There are also licensing costs. So the brewer has to be pretty sure of demand to get into the state, and the broker needs to be able to also be sure because there's some investment on their part. There are also supply limitations. Dog Fish Head for example, has flat out stated their lack of presence in Oklahoma is because they can't produce enough product for their current markets.

There's really nothing in our current laws that would prevent any brewery in selling here, that I can think of. Maybe the 3.2 limit for grocery, as it might increase sales/demand, but colorado has the same limitation, and they have plenty of breweries. The culture is the biggest difference.

[bluedogok]

The large microbrewers here like New Belgium, Avery, Breckenridge have done a lot of lobbying to make the microbrew industry flourish. The impact of beer on the economy through these large brewers and the tourist impact of events like the Great American Beer Festival wakes up some legislators. Having a governor who went into the brewpub business after his oil/geology career probably helps.

[jerrywall]

Exactly. We've got to build the culture, and get visibility up for our local microbrew industry. I think several of the local breweries are doing well at this. Mustang, Coop, Black Mesa, etc are all generating buzz.

[bille]

Exactly. We've got to build the culture, and get visibility up for our local microbrew industry. I think several of the local breweries are doing well at this. Mustang, Coop, Black Mesa, etc are all generating buzz.

....Choc (about to bring online a 50bbl brew-house!), Prairie Artisan Ales, Roughtail... Anthem will be online very soon, Dead Armadillo has already put out one release with more on the way too and let's not forget Marshall in Tulsa, whom was very much responsible in lobbying for the breweries being able to serve samples on sight at the breweries.

The buzz is being built and more craft breweries are and will continue to pop up in our state, but unfortunately at a slow pace considering a laws that are pro-winery at this point. Hopefully this will change soon, at least giving parity to breweries so they can at least compete with wineries (in terms of onsight samples, sales, etc.), cold-storage is an entirely different animal and although important will have to be tackled on its own.

[jerrywall]

Well, tasting rooms are opening soon. Friday the new tasting laws go into effect.

Good beer doesn't need cold storage once the brewing/fermenting process is done (IMO).

[bchris02]

Well, tasting rooms are opening soon. Friday the new tasting laws go into effect.

Good beer doesn't need cold storage once the brewing/fermenting process is done (IMO).

I agree. I have European friends who actually say if a beer is undrinkable at room temperature or slightly cooler, then its bad beer. If you think about it, beer has been around and perfected as an art for thousands of years but refrigeration has only been widely available for about a century, if even that long.

[RadicalModerate]

I agree. I have European friends who actually say if a beer is undrinkable at room temperature or slightly cooler, then its bad beer. If you think about it, beer has been around and perfected as an art for thousands of years but refrigeration has only been widely available for about a century, if even that long.

It may not be "bad" beer . . . Yet it is certainly "cheap" beer.
(Them "Euros" can be a little snooty sometimes. beer-wise.)

Still . . . I agree wholeheartedly with their general premise within this context.

[jerrywall]

I get the same laugh we beers advertise "born on dates" and tout freshness. Good/proper beers should improve with age. There's even a major vintage beer market.

Beer flavored malt beverages on the other hand...

[Bunty]

Meanwhile, does anyone know if Oklahomans for Modern Laws have given up on their cause. They have been maintaining such a low profile that their web site is a blank page. Nothing recent on their Facebook page. At least, there is still time left for a petition, but such a costly ordeal it would be.

[bchris02]

I personally doubt Oklahoma liquor laws will ever change. It's just too difficult to change them and there are too many special interest groups, be it religious, MADD, or liquor store owners wanting and willing to pay big bucks to preserve the status quo. There are a few changes I would like to see that I definitely think are doable. The question is, are these possible without a constitutional amendment?

The changes are:

1. Allow cold beer to be sold in liquor stores
2. Allow liquor stores to stay open until 10PM or 11PM - Sunday would be a bonus but I am not counting on it.
3. Allow microbrews to brew stronger beer than 3.2% ABW to be sold on-premises without having to sell it to a distributor.
4. Remove the requirement for liquor store owners to have lived in the state 10 years before being able to open a store

[jerrywall]

Meanwhile, does anyone know if Oklahomans for Modern Laws have given up on their cause. They have been maintaining such a low profile that their web site is a blank page. Nothing recent on their Facebook page. At least, there is still time left for a petition, but such a costly ordeal it would be.

They've pretty much disappeared, which is a good thing. Their petition/drive wasn't about modern laws, but merely about making more money for grocery stores.

[jerrywall]

I personally doubt Oklahoma liquor laws will ever change. It's just too difficult to change them and there are too many special interest groups, be it religious, MADD, or liquor store owners wanting and willing to pay big bucks to preserve the status quo. There are a few changes I would like to see that I definitely think are doable. The question is, are these possible without a constitutional amendment?

The changes are:

1. Allow cold beer to be sold in liquor stores
2. Allow liquor stores to stay open until 10PM or 11PM - Sunday would be a bonus but I am not counting on it.
3. Allow microbrews to brew stronger beer than 3.2% ABW to be sold on-premises without having to sell it to a distributor.
4. Remove the requirement for liquor store owners to have lived in the state 10 years before being able to open a store

Oklahoma liquor laws change all the time. There's been at least one significant change a year each year for the past decade. All that being said...

1. This will happen one day. Just need the legislature to stand up to grocery and oil and gas interests.
2. Probably not. Just not sure the drive is there.
3. This will likely happen.
4. Why?

[kevinpate]

Not real complicated. If and when the folks that desire significant change become willing to pony up more funds for campaigns, or run/finance their own preferred candidates, at a more extensive level than those who resist change, then change occurs. It's a matter of wanting change rather than wishing for change.

[Bunty]

I personally doubt Oklahoma liquor laws will ever change. It's just too difficult to change them and there are too many special interest groups, be it religious, MADD, or liquor store owners wanting and willing to pay big bucks to preserve the status quo. There are a few changes I would like to see that I definitely think are doable. The question is, are these possible without a constitutional amendment?

The changes are:

1. Allow cold beer to be sold in liquor stores
2. Allow liquor stores to stay open until 10PM or 11PM - Sunday would be a bonus but I am not counting on it.
3. Allow microbrews to brew stronger beer than 3.2% ABW to be sold on-premises without having to sell it to a distributor.
4. Remove the requirement for liquor store owners to have lived in the state 10 years before being able to open a store

You might be surprised. I was surprised some years ago that the state legislature had approved of Oklahomans being allowed to vote on allowing liquor stores to open at regular hours on election day. It passed by a slim margin. Since that was a fairly trivial change, I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of your suggestions for change would require a statewide vote.

[Bunty]

Not real complicated. If and when the folks that desire significant change become willing to pony up more funds for campaigns, or run/finance their own preferred candidates, at a more extensive level than those who resist change, then change occurs. It's a matter of wanting change rather than wishing for change.

In 2012 in Payne County, it only required one person, the area's state rep, to get up at a county commission meeting and ask members to allow a county election to legalize liquor by the drink on Sunday. The suggestion was approved 2 to 1. If only it was that easy at the state level.

[Bunty]

They've pretty much disappeared, which is a good thing. Their petition/drive wasn't about modern laws, but merely about making more money for grocery stores.

Or maybe they got intimated and decided they better forget it about it, if they wanted to live.

[bluedogok]

Oklahoma liquor laws change all the time. There's been at least one significant change a year each year for the past decade. All that being said...

1. This will happen one day. Just need the legislature to stand up to grocery and oil and gas interests.
2. Probably not. Just not sure the drive is there.
3. This will likely happen.
4. Why?

Did liquor stores used to be open until 10:00 at one time? I seem to remember that and thinking the closing time changing in the mid-80's.

[jerrywall]

Or maybe they got intimated and decided they better forget it about it, if they wanted to live.

Intimidated by who?

[jerrywall]

Did liquor stores used to be open until 10:00 at one time? I seem to remember that and thinking the closing time changing in the mid-80's.

I remember hearing this, but I'm young enough not to know.

[SouthsideSooner]

Originally Posted by Bunty
Or maybe they got intimated and decided they better forget it about it, if they wanted to live.

Hahaha... You can't possibly be serious... I've seen you throw the "cartel" word around a lot... Can you tell me exactly who you're talking about? There are only two major wholesalers and they don't really care for each other... Action would be the next in line but they're really struggling sooo... Are you talking about the Naifeh's who own Central? Are they the "cartel"? Which one do you thing is threatening peoples lives? Is it Brad or Greg or both? We're not close friends or anything but I know them both and I'm pretty sure neither of them are having anyone bumped off... Too funny

[RodH]

Did liquor stores used to be open until 10:00 at one time? I seem to remember that and thinking the closing time changing in the mid-80's.

Yes. I don't remember exactly when it was changed. I think that it happened when they raised the drinking age to 21. 1990?

[RadicalModerate]

I get the same laugh we beers advertise "born on dates" and tout freshness. Good/proper beers should improve with age. There's even a major vintage beer market.

Beer flavored malt beverages on the other hand...

Since you are a Beer Crafter you would probably know if this is true or not but we were told by the guide on a tour of Summit Brewery in St. Paul, MN, that beer should always be refrigerated to some degree in order to maximize its shelf life and flavor. Summit makes some excellent products, btw.

Oh: Re "beer flavored beverages": O'Doul's Amber ain't half bad. It's certainly not my ultimate beer of choice (I like Smithwick's, for example) but it will certainly do in a pinch.