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  1. #1176

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Okay so discretions be damned letís just mandate every cop issues citations for merely a mile per hour over the speed limit. Let me know how that proposal works out

  2. #1177
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    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Okay so discretions be damned letís just mandate every cop issues citations for merely a mile per hour over the speed limit. Let me know how that proposal works out
    LOL. It is mandated now. It's the law. So, we just need to acknowledge that we believe the law is whatever the legal enforcer says it is and give them discretion over certain laws, classes of laws, or just everything. Is a gram of coke enforceable... an oz? Is it whatever the cop says it is? One mile over? 10 miles over? Stealing $50? $1,000.

    We either have laws for a reason, or we should amend or get rid of them. It shouldn't be a guessing game or a game of cat and mouse. Cops shouldn't decide if red cars get tickets at 5 over and blue ones don't. Or on the basis of who's driving. Or whether they are from out of state. They aren't supposed to have discretion to enforce or not enforce legitimate laws. If the speed limits are too low, then pass a damn bill to get them raised.

  3. #1178

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    I disagree with you but as I said try and bring fourth a proposal to mandate a citation for drivers merely going a mile per hour above the limit and let me know how that works out for you.

  4. #1179

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Yeah, I don't really want to live in a world where the police have no discretion to execute their job. Speed up a bit to quickly move past what you perceive as a dangerous driver and go a few miles over the speed limit? Ticket! Have your cruise control set for the speed limit, and come over the top of the hill and accidently go a couple of miles over? Ticket! Drive perfectly and safely every day, and get pulled over for doing 4 mph over? No warning! Ticket!

    What a wonderful world.

    Officers can look at a number of factors when deciding to issue a ticket. They can even issue a ticket if someone is technically under the speed limit, but is driving in an unsafe way compared to relative speed of the traffic on the road (if everyone is going 30 and you fly through going 55, weaving through traffic, for example). I prefer a system where the enforcers can take multiple factors into account. The world isn't black and white (and this from someone who is colorblind).

  5. #1180
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    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Yeah, I don't really want to live in a world where the police have no discretion to execute their job. Speed up a bit to quickly move past what you perceive as a dangerous driver and go a few miles over the speed limit? Ticket! Have your cruise control set for the speed limit, and come over the top of the hill and accidently go a couple of miles over? Ticket! Drive perfectly and safely every day, and get pulled over for doing 4 mph over? No warning! Ticket!

    What a wonderful world.

    Officers can look at a number of factors when deciding to issue a ticket. They can even issue a ticket if someone is technically under the speed limit, but is driving in an unsafe way compared to relative speed of the traffic on the road (if everyone is going 30 and you fly through going 55, weaving through traffic, for example). I prefer a system where the enforcers can take multiple factors into account. The world isn't black and white (and this from someone who is colorblind).
    I agree. But I would love to see how many tickets on OK highways are actually given for going 5, or even 10 mph over. We hear some anecdote about some friend of a friend and we extrapolate it. In reality, I believe most people complaining are chronic speeders who believe the law does not apply to them or they just know better. EVERYONE thinks they are a good driver. However, I know plenty who regularly speed and run stop lights and red lights if they think its okay. BTW, my wife was nearly killed by such a driver.

    If you want faster speed limits, go lobby for higher limits, don't just ignore them.

  6. #1181

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I agree. But I would love to see how many tickets on OK highways are actually given for going 5, or even 10 mph over. We hear some anecdote about some friend of a friend and we extrapolate it. In reality, I believe most people complaining are chronic speeders who believe the law does not apply to them or they just know better. EVERYONE thinks they are a good driver. However, I know plenty who regularly speed and run stop lights and red lights if they think its okay. BTW, my wife was nearly killed by such a driver.

    If you want faster speed limits, go lobby for higher limits, don't just ignore them.
    I agree with that, and I'm not a fan of people trying to turn the highways into a raceway (as my wife refers to LHP, Lake Hefner Raceway). And yeah, people that always go 5-10 over will usually eventually get an unpleasant surprise. However, it doesn't mean there can't be some consideration. Running a red light is bad, AS A RULE, but there are a times where running a red light is acceptable or necessary. There's an old saying... rules are there so you'll think before you break them. So I just want officers to be able to use their judgement on if a ticket or a warning (or nothing at all) is the right tool for a given situation. This is why I don't like the idea of automated ticket systems (speed cameras, red light cameras, etc).

  7. #1182

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    LOL. It is mandated now. It's the law. So, we just need to acknowledge that we believe the law is whatever the legal enforcer says it is and give them discretion over certain laws, classes of laws, or just everything. Is a gram of coke enforceable... an oz? Is it whatever the cop says it is? One mile over? 10 miles over? Stealing $50? $1,000.

    We either have laws for a reason, or we should amend or get rid of them. It shouldn't be a guessing game or a game of cat and mouse. Cops shouldn't decide if red cars get tickets at 5 over and blue ones don't. Or on the basis of who's driving. Or whether they are from out of state. They aren't supposed to have discretion to enforce or not enforce legitimate laws. If the speed limits are too low, then pass a damn bill to get them raised.
    Law officers go to an intensive amount of training to know how to use discretion. Its not as random as one thinks. They might see a car in a known drug area at 2am and notice some minor traffic violations but that does give them reason to stop. If they find an old lady lost they are not gonna give her a ticket. But if they see a crack pipe laying in the console and driver acting nervous they now have cause to search car.

    Its all perspective. They are not out looking for 1mph speeders, but can use that (or plate light out) to stop someone in an area that is high crime.

  8. #1183

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    There are never absolutes. In my case, going 73 in a 70 zone, l was in the wide-open, flat Texas Panhandle on an established trucking route. The HP Officer who stopped me didn't seem to appreciate that traveling south against a 30mph wind gusting to 45 may cause a sudden increase or decrease to the speed of my car. Or the cruise control on my 10 year old car may be off a tick or two. Therefore, IMO, discretion is REQUIRED by law enforcement because not all "crimes" are crimes. The same for when the sliver of paper from the HP Officer's ticket book flew off in the wind when he ripped my warning out of it - as l pointed out to him, he just littered.

  9. #1184

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    There are never absolutes. In my case, going 73 in a 70 zone, l was in the wide-open, flat Texas Panhandle on an established trucking route. The HP Officer who stopped me didn't seem to appreciate that traveling south against a 30mph wind gusting to 45 may cause a sudden increase or decrease to the speed of my car. Or the cruise control on my 10 year old car may be off a tick or two. Therefore, IMO, discretion is REQUIRED by law enforcement because not all "crimes" are crimes. The same for when the sliver of paper from the HP Officer's ticket book flew off in the wind when he ripped my warning out of it - as l pointed out to him, he just littered.
    Texas cops are the absolute worst outside of the big cities, especially in the panhandle from my experience. Lots of ridiculous speed traps as well.

  10. #1185
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    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    Law officers go to an intensive amount of training to know how to use discretion. Its not as random as one thinks. They might see a car in a known drug area at 2am and notice some minor traffic violations but that does give them reason to stop. If they find an old lady lost they are not gonna give her a ticket. But if they see a crack pipe laying in the console and driver acting nervous they now have cause to search car.

    Its all perspective. They are not out looking for 1mph speeders, but can use that (or plate light out) to stop someone in an area that is high crime.
    Or to stop people who you don't want in an area, or are arbitrarily suspicious of (hair too long, too old, too young, wearing a hoodie, having a red car, or...... That arbitrariness can be used as a blunt weapon of profiling also.

    Your description sounds nice and constrained. But let's not be naive.

  11. #1186

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Or to stop people who you don't want in an area, or are arbitrarily suspicious of (hair too long, too old, too young, wearing a hoodie, having a red car, or...... That arbitrariness can be used as a blunt weapon of profiling also.

    Your description sounds nice and constrained. But let's not be naive.
    Damn! I'm too old and drive a red car........

  12. #1187

    Default Re: Oklahoma City, In the Press

    OKC suggested as top market for tech expansion:

    ď Oklahoma City and Kansas City lead the list of markets where tech companies should consider locating. These cities rank high in affordability ó where typical income earners are spending a relatively smaller share of their income on housing, livability (Kansas City tops the list in this category) and the availability of tech skills.Ē

    - https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/04/wh...ook-to-expand/

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