Project 180

[okcmomentum]

Ah...that makes sense. Thanks Steve!

[Spartan]

Steve, is there any way we could get a collection of all of the Project 180 renderings and information altogether in one source? I might be willing to work on it myself but I don't think I have access to what all is out there.

[Urban Pioneer]

Don't forget, 180 meetings today at 12 and 6 in council chambers at City Hall. Also, this looks to be the last of the "big" meetings so far posted. It looks as though they will have future presentations before individual groups.

[CCOKC]

I did not get to any of the meetings but noticed one was being played on the city channel 20 the other day. It may be replayed sometime.

[zachnash]

I did not get to any of the meetings but noticed one was being played on the city channel 20 the other day. It may be replayed sometime.

The most recent Project180 meeting was uploaded to OKC.gov last night.

http://media.okc.gov/OnDemand/Project180.1.2010.wmv

[twade]

So if they are going to start on the Myriad Garden around May (Arts Festival in last April), does anyone know when they will begin construction on the streetscapes that are scheduled for this year?

[OKC@heart]

and the possibility of LED lights on Crystal Bridge. I want to see what $120 million is actually being used for..

I have always wondered why the Crystal bridge with as significant a structure as it is and its visibility potential, why it was not being used as a luminary. With carefully planned LED lighting design it could not only light up brilliantly at night but could have various themes that it could be coreographed to display either in a cycle or seasonally. Either way it has always been an image that OKC markets Downtown from in day shots so it begs the question why not make it a visual reference for the city at night as well?

Much of it may have to do with the poor condition of the Polycarbonate panels that had gone yellow and were missing and broken in many places. It does my heart good to know that this great facility is going to get the renovations and treatment that it has so long deserved and needed.

I spent a great deal of time drawing sections of this structure and field verifying the interiors as an intern Architect there about 6 years ago for a modernization project that I am not sure ever took place. So it is like an old friend to me...or something. Yeah I may have spent a little too much time there come to think of it.

Nonetheless it is a great structure and is significant from a cultural and historic standpoint, and I am glad that it will remain and finally begin to reclaim some of its lost potential.

[LordGerald]

So if they are going to start on the Myriad Garden around May (Arts Festival in last April), does anyone know when they will begin construction on the streetscapes that are scheduled for this year?

Final design for the streetscapes and all the pieces is due by the consultant to the planning team on May 14. After approval, it is my understanding that construction will begin asap on the following streets.

• Dean A McGee
• Park
• Reno
• Robinson
• Walker

That's the schedule for 2010. So in a year, we should see substantial progress.

[OKCTalker]

Steve wrote a good article today (2/9/2010) on Project 180. One of the focuses was that the streetwork was to be completed, and then redone in order to install trolley tracks.

Isn't the concensus that in-ground, permanent trolley tracks are a bad idea due to infrastructure cost and a difficulty in modifying the routes? What's wrong with the wheeled trolley cars that we have presently?

[shane453]

Isn't the concensus that in-ground, permanent trolley tracks are a bad idea due to infrastructure cost and a difficulty in modifying the routes? What's wrong with the wheeled trolley cars that we have presently?

No, fixed routes are better to stimulate real estate development and retail businesses. They also project a better image. You can read these arguments in the main streetcar thread.

[Kerry]

OKCTalker - the reason tracks are better than rubber tire have do with permanence and commitment. Once the tracks are laid developers, land owners, business owners, a residents know those tracks aren't moving. This is why development doesn't occur around bus stops. Buses can change their routes any time for any reason.

Take a look at Atlanta as an example. Atlanta has both rail and buses and both have high usage - but no one has ever built a 10 story condo building at a bus stop. They do it at nearly every train station. Buses follow development - trains create it.

[OKCTalker]

Shane & Kerry: Thanks for schoolin' me on this. On the heels of your posts was a PBS program called Blueprint that aired last night and went into the history of transportation systems in Detroit, from the Detroit River in the early 1800s to trains, streetcars, the automobile, and now virtually nothing. Streetcars are being studied as a catalyst for economic redevelopment. They also discussed Spain's multi-billion dollar investment in high-speed rail called AVE, which has resulted in significant commercial development along its path.

I'm not sold on it as the right thing for our CBD, but your posts are insightful and appreciated.

[Kerry]

OKCTALKER - If you have a free weekend take a trip to downtown Memphis. Just take one walk along their downtown trolley line and ask yourself if rail or rubber tires are better. The answer will be self-evident.

[Dustin]

there is already a project 180 thread:
http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...ect-180-a.html

[HOT ROD]

I am happy with the streetcar, as most of us are - but I do hope that the plan for 180 is NOT to build the streets then build in the tracks. ...

We need to get on the ball with MAPS III and go ahead and plan the route. Then, Project 180 could develop streets that will not be transit corridors first. This would give time for MAPS III streetcar route designs and we could then gain some synergy do the Project 180 work and lay the streetcar tracks at the same time.

I would think, doing P180 and Streetcar track work simultaneously would be much less expensive and might allow for a longer track.

We need to take advantage of the street already being tore up - put in tracks at the same time it's being rebuilt. Tearing up the street, rebuilding the street, then tearing it up again and putting in tracks - that should NOT be an option as it is not the best use of public funds or trust. ....

We need to fast track the Maps III streetcar (at least planned route in the CBD) so that we can synergize with Project 180.

[MGE1977]

I am happy with the streetcar, as most of us are - but I do hope that the plan for 180 is NOT to build the streets then build in the tracks. ...

We need to get on the ball with MAPS III and go ahead and plan the route. Then, Project 180 could develop streets that will not be transit corridors first. This would give time for MAPS III streetcar route designs and we could then gain some synergy do the Project 180 work and lay the streetcar tracks at the same time.

I would think, doing P180 and Streetcar track work simultaneously would be much less expensive and might allow for a longer track.

We need to take advantage of the street already being tore up - put in tracks at the same time it's being rebuilt. Tearing up the street, rebuilding the street, then tearing it up again and putting in tracks - that should NOT be an option as it is not the best use of public funds or trust. ....

We need to fast track the Maps III streetcar (at least planned route in the CBD) so that we can synergize with Project 180.

Very nice and foreward thinking. You are right. Perhaps there needs to be a delay to one project start, or the other so as to merge the two. This is exactly the sort of discussion that needs to take place for responsible spending of our pennies.

[HOT ROD]

exactly!!

I think we could spend a few months (before Project 180 is to start) and go ahead and AT LEAST decide which streets will have streetcar tracks in the CBD/Project 180 area. Then we could reprioritize Project 180 to avoid 'streetcar route area' street reconstruction until MAPS III funds for the streetcar project are available. Then, we could do Project 180 street reconstruction on the streetcar track in the CBD simultaneously - saving money AND reducing impact to citizens and businesses.

It may mean that some of the initial MAPS III streetcar planning would take place without the funds actually being on hand. But I don't think it would take much cost, for the mayor and council to set aside the next few months (before Project 180 is to begin), and develop an initial master plan so that the route/impact to the CBD can at least be determined and Project 180 can be phased to gain synergy between the two projects.

Off the cuff, I would think Sheridan, Robinson, Hudson, Walker, and Reno/Main would be easy track candidates - Project 180 could avoid these streets initially. ...

As a citizen, I would HATE to construct a street twice when WE KNOW some of those CBD streets will have streetcar tracks eventually (why not do it once). As a business owner, I would HATE to have the street in front of my skyscraper to be reconstructed twice. As a city leader, I would HATE to build things twice especially in these economic days.

Like you said - forward thinking and minimizing cost and impact as much as possible.

I'll send a letter to the mayor and council, does anyone want to join me. (this is not a gripe or a beef, this is just a suggestion that we combine efforts as much as possible to reduce impact and cost and probably get a longer track in the process and/or build the streetcar to top quality).

[Larry OKC]

posted a link from Monday's Oklahoman over in the Modern Streetcar & Commuter Transit thread...not sure how to link it from here...

[metro]

there is already a project 180 thread:
http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...ect-180-a.html

ya, I'm not sure why we need two duplicate threads on Project 180 with the exact same thread name.

[warreng88]

So the plan was to start on Project 180 when the Arts Festival is over. The last day was yesterday so what can be expected to start and when?

[Northsider]

I wish that this plan involed tearing down the cox convention center so the canal could be expanded all the way to the garden .
when I was down there this weekend , I was on the balcony of a bar. That's when I got a true feeling of seperation staring at the awful beige giant.It's our on(revenue stopping) Berlin Wall.

How can we have a project 180 and the C2S without seamlessly tieing the park together with BT. just imagine tourists once the park is complete and they are in the north part by the gardens. They might not venture into BT because the C.C.C provides a visual mental block. The problem for years has been its like the city wants a fun part of DT and a segragated CBD. Well, now were just realizing that MAPS1 alone is not the answer for a more tourist freindly city.
Think about it when you go out of town and you are downtown do you spend more money while walking or driving its simple we need to blend the CBD with the BT without a buffer except the train but thats cool. Tourist and locals need to be able to park ,enjoy the things in the CBD ,visit the memorial, get dropped of by a trolley in bricktown, eat and have fun (thats on a regular night) . Concerts ,playoffs and games of course adds even more.


GO THUNDER !!!!!

[jbrown84]

They might not venture into BT because the C.C.C provides a visual mental block.

I really don't think it's a problem. Tourists are hyper-aware of the existence of Bricktown, even if 75% of them think it's called the "Brickyard" for some reason.

The streetcar will help link the two districts. We aren't ready for a canal extension. The one we have is nowhere near fully developed.

[Northsider]

its a problem. it's just not a big problem hopefully when the new C.C is here then the Cox will be gone.

the biggest problem downtown with tourism in my opinion is we haven't tied all the parts of downtown together.

so I start thinking what is stopping this and I keep coming back to the C.C.C , Ford dealership and the need for alternative transportation.

[ronronnie1]

I agree that the myriad/cox convention center is ugly and in the way (on prime real estate,) but I'm affraid it's here to stay - at least for the foreseeable future.

The Ford dealership on the other hand... That place needs to GO! I'm sure, or at least hopeful, that that land will be developed into something more suited for downtown. Just a matter of time. How out of place it'll be between the Myriad Gardens and the new central park.

[jbrown84]

Besides, you can't connect the canal though the Cox site to the Gardens without demolishing the historic Santa Fe station. Also the renovation is placing the restaurant and ice-rink/plaza in that path.