Project 180

[FritterGirl]

This all sounds great but I'd sure like more details on how this $175 million is to be spent.

Sounds like Nichols wants it directed towards the Myriad Gardens and sprucing up the CBD while city leaders are talking about new development as a part of Core to Shore.

From what I am hearing (and it is scant at this point), there will be a little bit of both. The Gardens will certainly get their share, but NOT the whole enchilada. Several civic interests are also throwing their ideas in for development (think cultural in nature) that would serve as a transition between the Gardens area and Core to Shore.

[jbrown84]

Yeah I'm a little confused on where the money is going as well. Hopefully that will be outlined soon.

[dcsooner]

Pretty sad that people who live and work HERE, would rather have the companies HQ's in Houston. What does that say about OKC that people from Seattle, to NO (Geo. Shinn didn't even know OKC was a true city and Denver (Geo Karl) said OKC is not an NBA city and now even locals would rather build someplace else. Where would this city be if those with the resources and talent didn't lead. Give Mr. Nichols the upgrades he request NOW, before he awakes and changes his mind.

[dcsooner]

Larry Nichols and Devon never quit ceasing to amaze me. "Please tax us and our new property so we can better this part of town."

Absolutely amazing. A true citizen of Oklahoma City, willing to ensure years of future growth and betterment of the CBD, at his company's own expense.

Larry Nichols is a real Oklahoman, willing to his time, talent and money in improving OKC. This guy along with Clay B and others need to be applauded and heartedly supported.

[jbrown84]

Pretty sad that people who live and work HERE, would rather have the companies HQ's in Houston. What does that say about OKC that people from Seattle, to NO (Geo. Shinn didn't even know OKC was a true city and Denver (Geo Karl) said OKC is not an NBA city and now even locals would rather build someplace else. Where would this city be if those with the resources and talent didn't lead. Give Mr. Nichols the upgrades he request NOW, before he awakes and changes his mind.

Don't jump to conclusions.

He said people in Houston and people in Devon. I imagine he means people that work in Devon's Houston offices, as well as non-employees who live in Houston. Of course they are going to have the same attitude that Seattle, Mark Cuban, and Karl have.

[Urbanized]

He did mean people in Houston, for the most part. From what I take away from his and other comments is that he specifically means people in the energy business. The prevailing wisdom in the energy sector is that large-scale growth and investment in that arena should happen in Houston. Devon (and most specifically Larry Nichols) wants to reverse that trend. Perhaps we could even become THAT city, based on this development. This is nothing but good, and is in no way a negative comment on our Oklahoma City.

[dcsooner]

You are likely right. Plus I really do not care what those naysayers think

[RedDirt717]

That's not how TIF works. The reason that businesses love TIF is because it takes the property tax they'd already be paying at the current assessed value and applies the post-construction assessed portion of the tax to pay off a bond which improves land primarily used by that business.

The cost of TIF is that OKC Public Schools (who would be the primary beneficiary of this new ad valorem revenue) will not see a dime of this new revenue until the bonds directly benefiting Devon are retired.

The argument in favor of TIF is that but for these TIF districts, many improvements which would have never been made will be made and benefit the schools 20-something years from now when the bonds are retired.

The argument against TIF is that it takes money away from the schools and instead, directly benefits companies who could in many cases, afford to do the work on their own.

Why does Larry Nichols hate children, and freedom?

Kidding.

[Steve]

Let me intervene with some facts... Oklahoma City Public Schools will receive money from the new Devon TIF, as it has from the older downtown TIF district.

[urbanity]

Downtown Oklahoma City area will get $135 million in next 10 years | OKG Scene.com

Devon, Oklahoma City face TIF for tat | OKG Scene.com

TIF on steroids | OKG Scene.com

[RedDirt717]

Thought I'd revive this thread.

[metro]

Revive it from 27 minutes prior to the last post?

[RedDirt717]

Revive it from 27 minutes prior to the last post?

No...from December 2008. Scroll up champ.

[Midtowner]

Let me intervene with some facts... Oklahoma City Public Schools will receive money from the new Devon TIF, as it has from the older downtown TIF district.

But that amount is locked in at what OKCPS was previously receiving until the TIF is paid in full, correct?

[BDP]

Do commercial properties have the same increase caps that residential properties have in terms of property valuation for tax purposes?

I don't know how TIF affects money available to the school districts, but it seems that Devon's TIF will benefit all properties downtown and should have an increasing effect on their property values, which, in turn, would mean more for OKC public schools... It may not be as much money as the Devon TIF itself will generate, but the net effect should still be positive on public schools, yes?

[Midtowner]

Once the TIF is paid in full (many, many years down the line), then the schools will see the benefit. Until then, the ad valorem taxes of the property are capped with the remainder going to retire the debt.

There is a positive effect, but that is negated by the fact that the district will not benefit from any future assessments on the district's properties which would have captured higher property values. Since downtown property values are increasing much faster than typical properties, it can safely be assumed that the future tax revenues to the school, at least for the next few decades will take a hit because of this.

[hoya]

They won't take a hit. They just won't see an increase due to the Devon building for a long time. It will be as if the Devon building weren't built. Which it wouldn't be, if not for Larry Nichols.

[Midtowner]

Not seeing an increase = "a hit."

Semantic games do not negate reality.

[evh5150]

the title of this thread has me thinking about a film starring al pacino and keanu reeves for some reason.

[Pete]

Hasn't this already started?

I know Devon has extended OKC a $95 million line of credit to get these projects rolling now... So what are the specific plans?

Also, any renderings of the proposed changes to the Myriad Gardens?

[metro]

Official plans haven't been released, although some details have been leaked.

[shane453]

A couple of weeks ago I saw a PDF file showing the implementation phases and what things would look like... I think I found it while looking at the Council agenda at okc.gov. It had fewer details on Myriad Gardens but I remember it showing an overview of which areas they would change.

[Pete]

I found various draft initiatives of the Downtown Strategic Initiative on the OKC.gov website:

City of Oklahoma City | Downtown Plan 2010

This one in particular has lots of ideas on bike lanes, sidewalks, etc.:

http://www.okc.gov/planning/okcdownt...nitiatives.pdf

Not really sure how the Devon funds would be used towards these efforts, but they must be related.


If construction has already started on some of these projects (like sidewalks) then the plan(s) should be public, not just some items "leaked".

[FritterGirl]

The larger "bones" of the MBG project are pretty well in place, but specific details are still being worked out as they relate to specific areas of interest.

A certain reporter that we all know and respect will be providing the public with information soon (he's met with the MBG steering committee and is working on a story, with some graphics).

It may be wise moving forward to create separate threads for the streetscape vs MBG projects. While they are generally being funded via the same source, the projects are very different in their scope. In addition to the TIF-funded redevelopment of the outdoor grounds of the Gardens, the Crystal Bridge Tropical Conservatory will be undergoing a reglazing project which is being funded via the 2007 General Obligation Bond initiative. At this time, the outdoor projects and reglazing will happen concurrently, with the Crystal Bridge and Gardens slated to close after Festival of the Arts 2010.

That's all I feel at liberty to say on the matter at this juncture. I'll let our trusty reporter fill you in on the details as he has them for his story.

[Pete]

Thanks so much FritterGirl!

Look forward to Steve's story.