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  1. #1

    Default The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    I figured now that this is finally happening, a dedicated thread makes sense.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/10/hous...nst-trump.html

    House Democrats announce they will vote on whether to impeach President Donald Trump on two specific articles — abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
    I'm a little surprised here. I expected at least 3 different articles. There's no obstruction of Justice which is interesting. For comparison, Clinton had 4 articles proposed against him, and two that passed. Interestingly, abuse of power was one of the charges against Clinton which did not pass the house.

    Part of the reason I had expected more articles was to provide some cover for members in Trump friendly states. That way they could vote for 2 or 3 while still opposing 1 or 2, and appear nuanced and bipartisan.

    Personally, if I was Pelosi I might still be thinking about some compromise with Senate Republicans. They're not gonna convict on impeachment, barring something stunning and new coming up. I think a bipartisan censure would be possible though, and could be a stronger rebuke than a failed impeachment trial in the Senate (one that Trump will invariably leverage as vindication and exoneration).

    I expect both articles will pass the house easily. I can't see very many no votes from Dems, although I expect there will be a handful. They'll have to move quickly if they want a vote before Christmas, so at least we won't be waiting long.

    I'm curious how this will effect other looming battles like the budget. Is there a point Trump goes full scorched earth?

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    On a side note, what an exciting time to be a Government/Civics/History teacher. I was out of school before Clinton's impeachment and the closest I has was the Iran/Contra hearings, but it's definitely something that can be leveraged into class, and regardless about how you feel about the folks involved, it is historic and something that will be studied and taught for years to come.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    The dems are just trying to fulfill a campaign promise many of them made to their voters.

    Is this the 4th impeachment vote they have now had?

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    The dems are just trying to fulfill a campaign promise many of them made to their voters.

    Is this the 4th impeachment vote they have now had?
    No, this is the first impeachment vote. The other votes to open impeachment hearings. This is the actual impeachment itself. It's happening. By the end of the month Trump will be only the third president to ever be impeached (Nixon quit before this vote happened to him). They will vote in the Judiciary Committee this week and if passed, a vote will follow in the full House.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    I found the Obstruction of Congress charge to be the most problematic for the President because it is so obvious. He directed Mulvaney, Bolton and Giuliani (and others I believe) not to testify before the House committees, and presumably will do the same before the Senate. If the Senate calls them and they refuse to appear, that's obstruction. The President can't simply use executive privilege with everyone he wants, otherwise it would nullify the constitutional process of impeachment. The framers were smarter than that.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    No, this is the first impeachment vote. The other votes to open impeachment hearings. This is the actual impeachment itself. It's happening. By the end of the month Trump will be only the third president to ever be impeached (Nixon quit before this vote happened to him). They will vote in the Judiciary Committee this week and if passed, a vote will follow in the full House.
    Well, he would be in decent company. Clinton is oft revered as a solid executive, and he too was impeached. Similar to Clinton's "affair" i think this has far more to do with Congress than it does the President.

    Trump must be removed or beaten, lest the court take a monumental step to the right.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    I agree with you but, no way on Clinton. He took special time, went on national TV, looked America right in the eye and bald faced lied eye -to-eye that he didn't have sex with thst woman, Monica Lewinsky.

    Trump is wrongly telling his staff to resist cooperating with a Congress that wants to overturn the 2016 election. Resisting a clearly hostile House vs. Clinton lying about sexual assault? Not the same.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I agree with you but, no way on Clinton. He took special time, went on national TV, looked America right in the eye and bald faced lied eye -to-eye that he didn't have sex with thst woman, Monica Lewinsky.
    Why won't Trump do the same? Why does everyone always give him the benefit of the doubt on everything? People still insist that Obama was born in Kenya, that he's a Muslim, that Michelle is really Michael, and that he hung out in bathhouses having gay sex despite the fact that none of that can be proven and much of it can be disproven. People still believe Hillary ran a child prostitution ring out of the basement of a pizza restaurant and that she's a lesbian despite the fact that she's denied it. Yet, absolutely anything negative that comes out about Trump, period, is automatically fake news.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Trump is wrongly telling his staff to resist cooperating with a Congress that wants to overturn the 2016 election. Resisting a clearly hostile House vs. Clinton lying about sexual assault? Not the same.
    The biggest difference between Trump and Bill Clinton is they are on opposing sides of the abortion and marriage issues. That's why they are held to a different standard. Trump's behavior wouldn't be tolerated if he wasn't appointing pro-life, pro-traditional marriage SCOTUS justices. You know it. What angers me the most about the entire Trump era is that half the country cares more about winning the culture war than preserving our constitutional democracy for future generations.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Why won't Trump do the same? Why does everyone always give him the benefit of the doubt on everything? People still insist that Obama was born in Kenya, that he's a Muslim, that Michelle is really Michael, and that he hung out in bathhouses having gay sex despite the fact that none of that can be proven and much of it can be disproven. People still believe Hillary ran a child prostitution ring out of the basement of a pizza restaurant and that she's a lesbian despite the fact that she's denied it. Yet, absolutely anything negative that comes out about Trump, period, is automatically fake news.



    The biggest difference between Trump and Bill Clinton is they are on opposing sides of the abortion and marriage issues. That's why they are held to a different standard. Trump's behavior wouldn't be tolerated if he wasn't appointing pro-life, pro-traditional marriage SCOTUS justices. You know it. What angers me the most about the entire Trump era is that half the country cares more about winning the culture war than preserving our constitutional democracy for future generations.
    Well the best theory I have seen lately is the "chaos voter" which has been written about a lot in recent weeks. A lot of similarities to folks who watch professional wrestling. Which is watched by lot of people over the age of 50, and not kids.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democ...ushpmg00000006

    As for your theory on abortion stance being the major difference between support now and 20 years ago with Clinton, I'd say you're spot on.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Why won't Trump do the same? Why does everyone always give him the benefit of the doubt on everything? People still insist that Obama was born in Kenya, that he's a Muslim, that Michelle is really Michael, and that he hung out in bathhouses having gay sex despite the fact that none of that can be proven and much of it can be disproven. People still believe Hillary ran a child prostitution ring out of the basement of a pizza restaurant and that she's a lesbian despite the fact that she's denied it. Yet, absolutely anything negative that comes out about Trump, period, is automatically fake news.
    Oh that's BS. As many people still believe the Pee tape BS as believed that crap. There are crazy conspiracies/allegations about every president and major politican. I won't waste the time going back through old posts and pointing out those posters who have claimed or repeated theories including...

    The Trump Pee Tape (it's existence)
    The act that inspired the pee tape.
    Trump is a Russian asset
    The NRA is laundering money for Russia
    The RNC is laundering money for Russia
    Trump is laundering money for Russia

    and many many more. And many of these came out before the election and are STILL getting traction. Check the TLO yesterday and you can see them repeating the pee tape crap. And I'm pretty sure I've not seen you calling out all those debunked and crazy Trump conspiracies around here... I'll apologize if I've missed them.

    So I could inverse the same question. Why would people always give a pass to Hillary and Obama. Why do they always give them the benefit of the doubt while believing every single crazy conspiracy about Trump. (There's a certain poster here who has embraced every single conspiracy or allegation against Trump going back to well before the election - I won't give them the attention they seek by calling them out).

    The answer? Politics. People are people.

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    The biggest difference between Trump and Bill Clinton is they are on opposing sides of the abortion and marriage issues. That's why they are held to a different standard. Trump's behavior wouldn't be tolerated if he wasn't appointing pro-life, pro-traditional marriage SCOTUS justices. You know it. What angers me the most about the entire Trump era is that half the country cares more about winning the culture war than preserving our constitutional democracy for future generations.
    It was just the same with Clinton. The so-called pro women groups ignored all his sexual assaults, his wife going out doing damage control by attempting to destroy the reputation of his accusers, the extreme power differential between him and a 20 year old intern to the point that it could be considered rape, and more. He wasn't even passing the right bills (he passed some fairly anti-LGBTQ bills, and increased the incarceration of minorities significantly). Why did they continue to support him? He was a Democrat, that's all that mattered.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ck-impeachment

    This is interesting. Even if house leadership doesn't pressure moderates, I've got to wonder if there would be ramifications from the party itself.

    It's a safe bet for them, because I expect they easily have the votes with a dozen or so to spare.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Oh that's BS. As many people still believe the Pee tape BS as believed that crap. There are crazy conspiracies/allegations about every president and major politican. I won't waste the time going back through old posts and pointing out those posters who have claimed or repeated theories including...

    The Trump Pee Tape (it's existence)
    The act that inspired the pee tape.
    Trump is a Russian asset
    The NRA is laundering money for Russia
    The RNC is laundering money for Russia
    Trump is laundering money for Russia

    and many many more. And many of these came out before the election and are STILL getting traction. Check the TLO yesterday and you can see them repeating the pee tape crap. And I'm pretty sure I've not seen you calling out all those debunked and crazy Trump conspiracies around here... I'll apologize if I've missed them.

    So I could inverse the same question. Why would people always give a pass to Hillary and Obama. Why do they always give them the benefit of the doubt while believing every single crazy conspiracy about Trump. (There's a certain poster here who has embraced every single conspiracy or allegation against Trump going back to well before the election - I won't give them the attention they seek by calling them out).

    The answer? Politics. People are people.
    Please Trump IS a Russian asset, the question is, does he know that?
    In fact, it looks like Rudy's campaign in Ukraine at Trump's bidding is being paid for by Russia:
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...ani-money.html

    The NRA is a conduit for Russian money and influence:
    https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/76487...report-reveals

    The RNC is laundering money for Russia?
    I'm not sure that "laundering" is the right term, but Russian money is flowing into Republican/Trump campaigns. These are the crimes that Rudy's buddies are charged with, that Rudy may be charged with.

    Trump is laundering money for Russia?
    Trump had long bragged about how much money he got from Russians buying his condos, yes, much of that was laundering money. Trump likely did not commit a crime doing this, but it was likely laundered money to be hidden in the US.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    I rest my case. Surprised the pee allegations weren't defended too.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I rest my case. Surprised the pee allegations weren't defended too.
    Which of what I said was untrue?

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Sorry, left my tinfoil at home.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Still very much a game of Inside Baseball.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Nice to see swake keeping the faith.

    Obama, openly telling Russian leader to his face that he was good to work with doesn't make him a stooge.

    Trump making many decisions that have both helped and hurt Russia makes him a stooge.

    Remember what was said above about how political party was all that mattered. Well...

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Just a reminder that this guy sits on the judiciary committee:


  20. #20

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I rest my case. Surprised the pee allegations weren't defended too.
    Actually, in Hope Hicks testimony, she claims in the 24 hour period following the release of the Access Hollywood tape, the campaign was trying to locate a rumored video from Russia (i.e. the Pee Pee Tape), which they heard existed. They weren't even worried about the ***** Grabber tape, because they were looking for the supposed Pee Pee tape at the time. That really did come out in her testimony.

  21. #21

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Just a reminder that this guy sits on the judiciary committee:

    And that guy owned Matt Gaetz(R-Fl) when Gaetz got cute about Hunter Biden. Well played sir!

  22. #22

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    the dems are taking this hearing very very serious

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/dem-co...achment-debate

  23. #23

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    I can't blame him for being bored, but turning to golf for help?

  24. #24

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I can't blame him for being bored, but turning to golf for help?
    The Presidents Cup was on. Pretty exciting at the end actually. It’s almost as if different people find different things entertaining...? \_(ツ)_/

  25. #25

    Default Re: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by runOKC View Post
    The Presidents Cup was on. Pretty exciting at the end actually. It’s almost as if different people find different things entertaining...? \_(ツ)_/
    Well, yeah. I'm sure I could find someone willing to pay for a ticket to watch paint dry, and my grass grow too...

    Can't account for tastes...

    (I'll be over here watching Tennis)

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