University Town Center

[UrbanistPoke]

If you think about who would have this kind of money and is connected to OU it is pretty easy to figure out. I'd be willing to bet several of us know.

Well apparently everyone thinks it's coming from magic beans in the ground and an arena will just sprout out in five years when it blooms.

If there's a private individual that can donate that much or several - it shouldn't be built in UTC.

What everyone seems to be claiming when that's brought up is that the arena will be paid for by the surrounding development and income from the retail, apartments, etc. So a private developer will build the arena out of the kindness of their hearts and foregoing profit on surrounding development to make sure that happens according to many here. No help from OU at all, just a small $20-30 million help from City of Norman, County, etc.

[jedicurt]

Well apparently everyone thinks it's coming from magic beans in the ground and an arena will just sprout out in five years when it blooms.

If there's a private individual that can donate that much or several - it shouldn't be built in UTC.

What everyone seems to be claiming when that's brought up is that the arena will be paid for by the surrounding development and income from the retail, apartments, etc. So a private developer will build the arena out of the kindness of their hearts and foregoing profit on surrounding development to make sure that happens according to many here. No help from OU at all, just a small $20-30 million help from City of Norman, County, etc.

now you are just admitting that you don't know how real-estate developments work.

[UrbanistPoke]

now you are just admitting that you don't know how real-estate developments work.

You got me. I'll be declaring bankruptcy tomorrow just for you - I don't know how to do the thing I've done for decades. Enlighten me oh great one of how this is being paid for again?

[BDP]

What everyone seems to be claiming when that's brought up is that the arena will be paid for by the surrounding development and income from the retail, apartments, etc. So a private developer will build the arena out of the kindness of their hearts and foregoing profit on surrounding development to make sure that happens according to many here. No help from OU at all, just a small $20-30 million help from City of Norman, County, etc.

This is kind of the structure of many large public/private developments where a venue is involved. The private developer(s) don't see the venue as something they are building out of the kindness of their hearts. They probably don't even see it as something they are building. They see it as an anchor attraction which, with a viable anchor tenant secured, can provide guaranteed traffic to their development several nights a year that is being built with public assistance.

If there's a private individual that can donate that much or several - it shouldn't be built in UTC.

It's not a donation. It's an investment in the whole development. That's just different money, even if it is the same individual, if you get where I'm coming from.

[ManAboutTown]

I'm amazed that a post about this proposed major development for Norman and the OKC metro took such a turn for the worse simply because the man's screen name includes the word "Poke."

Instead of questioning his numbers and his apparent knowledge of real estate, financing, and public projects, Urbanist was shouted down and dismissed because he's not a Sooner fan. That's sad. He's entitled to his own opinion, so attack him on his numbers or his research into other venues or whatever, not his lack of love for OU.

I think he makes a lot of sense, because this "If you build it, they will come" mentality has been proven wrong more than once, and definitely in Oklahoma. It's not as if this development is being built in a vacuum. OKC is experiencing growth in every quadrant and the barriers to success here are HUGE.

Just my 2 cents. Fire away.

[john60]

If you think about who would have this kind of money and is connected to OU it is pretty easy to figure out. I'd be willing to bet several of us know.

Ha, I was thinking some of them may be spending a big chunk of money on an arena 20 miles to the north. The UT arrangement as I understand it is pretty interesting. National group associated with Live Nation gets rights/revenue from concerts and non-UT sports events -- basically built an awesome arena music venue in a town that didn't have one before. Just didn't know if it was some national group that is not really OU/Oklahoma based. And while the Chickasaws have some decent-sized venues, they don't have an arena for concerts etc.

[Pete]

^

OU sold most of the land at UNP for pure profit and still owns most the property north of Rock Creek.


Okay, I'm done now. It's been established you aren't worth debating.

[chssooner]

Can we get this guy out of the thread? He knows it's $200 million pinochle funding, not $20 million. He keeps moving goal posts, and being kind of rude and snobby about his "knowledge". He hasn't raised one good point that Pete and others haven't countered multiple times, yet keeps cluttering the thread with regurgitated buzzwords and talking points that aren't true.

[HangryHippo]

Talk to all your fellow Sooners on here about that, not me. HA. That info I'm repeating from others on here saying it will be around 8,000 seats or so which to me is dumb. If you want to get concerts and other benefits out of it, it has to be bigger. UT Austin's arena would be the model to look at for that. It also cost $375 million +

Great comparison between OU and one of the two main universities in Texas with more money than god.

[G.Walker]

I am glad this is finally moving forward. This has been in the works for years, so people need to understand this just didn't spring up overnight. The original UNP masterplan always called for a mixed-used development like this when the plan was created in 2006. Now we are finally getting the UNP we were supposed to get, rather than the sprawled commercial strip mall it is now.

[unfundedrick]

I don't think I've ever seen any poster here before who completely understands everything about everyone else and is so adept at rationalizing his own posts, even when shown to not be accurate. He is certainly entitled to his opinion but 90 percent of what he says is just opinion and worth nothing more than that. So I'm sure I will be lambasted next as an OU apologist. LOL

[Jeremy Martin]

I know it's too late for this now but I think the duck pond would make a great spot for a new arena. Just sayin.

[rcjunkie]

Good location but not enough space

[bombermwc]

So question like some of the others are leading to here. Since OU is not contributing to the venue (understandably) I wonder if Harroz's goal is to use this as a buffer. Play here for a bit and see how it goes and then start a fundraising campaign for a LNC replacement.

LNC is too valuable as a space for parking for football and regular commuter parking, so you won't see the actual lot itself going anywhere. But if LNC is dozed (or dug up, whatever you want to call it) while they play at University Town Center , then there's freedom to start over and not have to worry about location.

My concern then becomes, what is Norman going to do to keep that size of an arena busy if/when OU moves out. That's a pretty good sized venue at 11k. It could host a ton of graduations (if the price is right). There are hotels nearby for some 2nd tier conventions...but they aren't walking distance close, which is a downside. So does it become an Olympic type venue then, where it just sits and collects dust for 30 years as it stagnates? That's all assuming OU doesn't stay there. If it does stay, well there's nothing to worry about. It's going to be plenty busy.

If OU does stay, i'm also wondering if OU rebuilds the practice facilities (which i hear always leak in the rain for some reason...or at least used to).

[jdross1982]

So question like some of the others are leading to here. Since OU is not contributing to the venue (understandably) I wonder if Harroz's goal is to use this as a buffer. Play here for a bit and see how it goes and then start a fundraising campaign for a LNC replacement.

LNC is too valuable as a space for parking for football and regular commuter parking, so you won't see the actual lot itself going anywhere. But if LNC is dozed (or dug up, whatever you want to call it) while they play at University Town Center , then there's freedom to start over and not have to worry about location.

My concern then becomes, what is Norman going to do to keep that size of an arena busy if/when OU moves out. That's a pretty good sized venue at 11k. It could host a ton of graduations (if the price is right). There are hotels nearby for some 2nd tier conventions...but they aren't walking distance close, which is a downside. So does it become an Olympic type venue then, where it just sits and collects dust for 30 years as it stagnates? That's all assuming OU doesn't stay there. If it does stay, well there's nothing to worry about. It's going to be plenty busy.

If OU does stay, i'm also wondering if OU rebuilds the practice facilities (which i hear always leak in the rain for some reason...or at least used to).

I believe OU would have to commit to a long term lease in the range of 20-25 years. The size of the arena I have heard is between 8-10 k which makes a lot of sense as you build bigger (increased cost) you are just trying to compete with Paycom and the new Thunder arena which doesn't make much sense. This size allows OU to use it 40-50 (maybe 60) nights a year between Men's and Women's basketball and Gymnastics. I see it hosting another few tournaments for HS (volleyball, basketball, gymnastics etc) which could take up to another 20-30 nights of action. The rest would be up to the developer to fill the space.

[jdross1982]

Just a comparison of size between UNP, Campus Corner and LNC.

Campus Corner area is roughly 52 acres.
LNC area is roughly 59 acres.
UNP (the area dedicated to this development only) 208 acres. Neither CC nor LNC compares in size and quite frankly doesn't compare with infrastructure either.

[BoulderSooner]

So question like some of the others are leading to here. Since OU is not contributing to the venue (understandably) I wonder if Harroz's goal is to use this as a buffer. Play here for a bit and see how it goes and then start a fundraising campaign for a LNC replacement.

LNC is too valuable as a space for parking for football and regular commuter parking, so you won't see the actual lot itself going anywhere. But if LNC is dozed (or dug up, whatever you want to call it) while they play at University Town Center , then there's freedom to start over and not have to worry about location.

My concern then becomes, what is Norman going to do to keep that size of an arena busy if/when OU moves out. That's a pretty good sized venue at 11k. It could host a ton of graduations (if the price is right). There are hotels nearby for some 2nd tier conventions...but they aren't walking distance close, which is a downside. So does it become an Olympic type venue then, where it just sits and collects dust for 30 years as it stagnates? That's all assuming OU doesn't stay there. If it does stay, well there's nothing to worry about. It's going to be plenty busy.

If OU does stay, i'm also wondering if OU rebuilds the practice facilities (which i hear always leak in the rain for some reason...or at least used to).

they are building a new hotel ..

OU is currently upgrading the practice facilities they will stay where they are for a long period of time (the BG performance center is also there and is first class)

[FighttheGoodFight]

Students 100% still had to drive to games at LNC. They also give away free tickets with football and no one goes. Students like football (for a quarter or two) and everything else is secondary.

I am sure they will have ample shuttles running from campus to the new arena.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I'm sure OU's athletic program has done research on this over many years. If the whole program wants to move and do this deal it seems like they have good reason.

[Pete]

Reminder that everyone involved at OU wanted this move 5 years ago and the only reason it didn't happen was a funding snag which now seems resolved.

So we are already another 5 years down the road, LNC is even less competitive and an on-campus facility isn't even the realm of possibility.

That's why OU wants to move on this and I'm pretty darn sure it's going to happen and the programs will both be far better for it.

[BoulderSooner]

Reminder that everyone involved at OU wanted this move 5 years ago and the only reason it didn't happen was a funding snag which now seems resolved.

So we are already another 5 years down the road, LNC is even less competitive and an on-campus facility isn't even the realm of possibility.

That's why OU wants to move on this and I'm pretty darn sure it's going to happen and the programs will both be far better for it.

I will also say that 5 years ago it took a little convincing to get everyone at OU fully onboard ..

over the last 5 years (mostly) behind the scenes the county, city, the norman economic dev folks,and EVERYONE at OU is fully behind this project and has done the vast majority of the politics and leg work already to make this happen

[Jersey Boss]

Reminder that everyone involved at OU wanted this move 5 years ago and the only reason it didn't happen was a funding snag which now seems resolved.

So we are already another 5 years down the road, LNC is even less competitive and an on-campus facility isn't even the realm of possibility.

That's why OU wants to move on this and I'm pretty darn sure it's going to happen and the programs will both be far better for it.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-athl...aeb479c4f.html
In 2017, the City of Norman unveiled a project to create a similarly described new entertainment district to house OU basketball and other amenities between Tecumseh and Rock Creek Roads in the University North Park area, roughly six miles from OU's campus.

The OU Foundation requested tax incentives through the University North Park tax increment district in 2018, according to the Norman Transcript. The foundation later withdrew its request in July 2018 after community members expressed opposition and a lawsuit alleging violations of the Oklahoma Open Records Act.
The "snag" was resolved after extensive lobbying of the legislature to exempt the OU Foundation from the Open Record Act.
https://nondoc.com/2021/03/04/ou-fou...ct%20exemption.
Meanwhile, the OU Foundation has tried unsuccessfully for two years to convince leaders of the Oklahoma Legislature to pass a bill specifically exempting university foundations from the Oklahoma Open Records Act.

This year, OU Foundation representatives requested that at least one legislator file a bill carving out an Open Records Act exemption. In addition, NonDoc obtained a March 2020 letter addressed to legislative leaders asking for university foundations to be exempted from the transparency statute.

[Jersey Boss]

,,,

[john60]

I think the design of the arena will probably increase student attendance too. Lots of these newer college arenas have a 10-row or so area of bleachers on the lower level between the baselines for students that kind of imitates Cameron Indoor at Duke. Auburn's newer arena seats 9,000 and has that design. I think it is a great comp. At LNC the student section is set far back from the court and is chairbacks. It is out of the way and not conducive to packing it in/making it fun for students.

[GoGators]

I would make sure the mixed use portion of this proposal is built and leased well before I promised to play home games in the new arena. If this ends up just being an 8,000 seat arena surrounded by nothing or is developed like the south portion of UTC is then staying at LNC for the next 20 years would be the better option by far.