Downtown Tulsa development ahead of OKC?

[CuatrodeMayo]

My wife and I spend the weekend in Dallas every 6 months, primarily to shop at IKEA.

[metro]

Same here, as well as a few clothing stores that OKC doesn't have.

[Kerry]

My wife and I spend the weekend in Dallas every 6 months, primarily to shop at IKEA.

ljbab728 is no longer debating that people go to Dallas to shop. His last post seems to conceed that point. However, he thinks you only do it to brag about it. I guess his point is that if OKC had all the stores you go to Dallas for, you would still go to Dallas so you can brag.

[soonerguru]

I'm sure there are many things that can be found in Dallas that we can't get here, but I'm convinced that many people just think it's "chic" to shop in Dallas and go home to brag about it. They go there more for an weekend outing with shopping as an excuse.

It's really great that you can divine the intentions of hundreds of thousands of people who leave our state to go shopping.

[Richard at Remax]

who needs to go to dallas when you can shop online

[metro]

who needs to go to dallas when you can shop online

when you can't see things in person or want to try them on.

[progressiveboy]

I'm sure there are many things that can be found in Dallas that we can't get here, but I'm convinced that many people just think it's "chic" to shop in Dallas and go home to brag about it. They go there more for an weekend outing with shopping as an excuse.

Well lets start off ljbab728- Dallas has Neiman Marcus, Saks, Nordstrom, True Religion Store, Versace, Barneys, Hermes, Brooks Brothers. On the more affordable side, Cost Plus World Market, IKEA, Urban Outfitters etc...........This is probably why most people go to Dallas to shop since "none" of these stores are located in OKC. There may be a few people that shop in Dallas to brag however, for you to make that general assumption is a pretty weak argument. Maybe people like to get out of town for the weekend for their outings and Dallas offers many things that OKC just does not have. Not to mention, all the great restaurants that Dallas has that OKC does not.

[Richard at Remax]

Metro. I am 26. I know what fits me and what isn't going to fit me. And now more than ever you can tell what things look like online. Ordered lots of high end online (burberry, lacoste, rock and republic) online and never once had a problem or sent things back.

[BigD Misey]

For what it's worth...
I think OKC right now is in a position similar to the early 2000's. The city was ripe for a professional franchise. Rumors abounded about AFL and NHL and NBA. Finally, due to a natural disaster, OKC got its chance to PROVE what it was saying "We are ready and will support a professional franchise!" And prove it they did. In the face of critics that said the money and fan base would not be there.
In this situation, it will again be a third party catalyst. Some entity or event will spring one of these stores into what they feel will be a risky chance in OKC. What they will find is, to their suprise it will flourish. Then, as if they couldn't help themselves, the rest will come.
It will take a massively attractive offer from the city to developers...The Right Developers...ones with connections with those stores in the past. It will take seasonal attractions in the immediate vicinity downtown, especially in the winter, which is why i think the Thunder are a key element. Unfortunately, i also think it will take another 5 years or so untill a developer of that calibur to move, because they will want to see how the Maps3 development pans out and how well the NBA floats in upcoming years. Especially in a down year.

[Kerry]

Metro. I am 26. I know what fits me and what isn't going to fit me. And now more than ever you can tell what things look like online. Ordered lots of high end online (burberry, lacoste, rock and republic) online and never once had a problem or sent things back.

I take it you are not married. My wife never buys clothes on-line - never - and I don't know any woman that buys shoes, purses, or other accessories on-line unless they see them in a store first.

[Richard at Remax]

Haha yes kerry I am not married I was just talking about myself. Im sure that will change when I do get married. Cause womens shopping is a whole other machine that can't be stopped.

[Kerry]

Haha yes kerry I am not married I was just talking about myself. Im sure that will change when I do get married. Cause womens shopping is a whole other machine that can't be stopped.

Like I said earlier - everything I need is at Lowes and Best Buy. The wife shops like a professional. No matter what town or city we visit, I know I am going to spend time at the mall.

[metro]

worthy. I have several the same size of tshirt from Old Navy and yet they are different in actuality. Unfortunately retailers sizes are skewed from brand to brand, and sometimes even within a brand. I'm not much older than you, but I am married. I used to shop a lot online but anymore anything I order I have to send back because the size is skewed, even with retailers I'm familar with. Also selection can vary from region to region from the same retailer, but you can't always find it online.

The point from whomever was that people shop in Dallas to brag, which simply isn't the case. I shop there because I can't get it in OKC and I want to shop in person. On top of that, notice how womens selection is 3-4 times bigger than mens selections? That's because the bulk of their money is from women, and as you and others noted, women don't want to shop online for the most part w/o seeing or trying on in a store first. Sorry , but men have very limited pull when it comes to trendy clothing.

[Architect2010]

Well ljbab. I don't consider anything 'chic' about driving 3 hours to Dallas, navigating that horrible congested traffic there, and putting up with rude people. I extremely doubt that most people drive 300 miles to Dallas to look "cool". But what can I say, Urban Outfitters controls my mind. I wish it was here. And yeah, I shop online at UO and others stores not located here, but for jeans and jackets I have to be at the store itself.

[Spartan]

It depends if the items purchased online are charged sales tax or not (if the seller has a physical presence in the state, they are supposed to be collecting OK sales tax and the appropriate City sales tax. If that money is not being collected by the Seller (and the other State isn't collecting their own sales tax on the items), it falls under the category of the Use Tax and is supposed to be reported on your OK income tax form. If you don't have your receipts, the State as a formula you can use that works out to be a certain percentage of your income. Or you can check that you didn't buy anything out of state that might be subject to the Use Tax.

Eh yeah...

[Spartan]

we dont have the location - yet.

Look for the new boulevard downtown to be the location of okc's premier shopping district.

roflmfao

[Spartan]

People visiting from New York or Chicago find it necessary to go to Dallas to go shopping? lol. Dallas must have much better shopping than anything I'm familiar with if they can't find it at home.

Here's the important thing you're not getting.. Dallas is able to serve 95% of its residents' shopping needs, and probably actually captures 70%. It supplements that with half of the shoppers in Dallas actually coming in from other areas, thus is completely whole.

OKC is only able to serve maybe 60% of its residents' shopping needs, and only captures (according to the chamber survey) 40%. Nobody is coming into OKC to shop, in fact, OKC people are supporting the stores in Texas. Thus you have a zero sum game for shopping in OKC because it is so rudimentary, and we're actually in the hole if you look at it comparatively.

So Dallas, because they can appeal to a more complete range, is whole.
OKC, because it offers virtually no upscale shopping, is in the hole.

Catchy, huh?

[ljbab728]

I don't know what to tell you ljbab728. My sister-in-law lives in Chicago and when she comes to visit she used to go Orlando (when staying with us) or to Palm Beach (if she stayed with her parents) to do her vacation shopping. Now with St John's Town Center she doesn't have to leave Jax.

Women operate differently than men. Everything I need/want is at Lowes and Best Buy. I don't need anything else. I can go to one shoe store and find ten pairs of shoes I like. My wife can go to ten shoe stores and not find one pair.

Yes, with women, the grass in always greener elsewhere when it comes to shopping.

[ljbab728]

Here's the important thing you're not getting.. Dallas is able to serve 95% of its residents' shopping needs, and probably actually captures 70%. It supplements that with half of the shoppers in Dallas actually coming in from other areas, thus is completely whole.

OKC is only able to serve maybe 60% of its residents' shopping needs, and only captures (according to the chamber survey) 40%. Nobody is coming into OKC to shop, in fact, OKC people are supporting the stores in Texas. Thus you have a zero sum game for shopping in OKC because it is so rudimentary, and we're actually in the hole if you look at it comparatively.

So Dallas, because they can appeal to a more complete range, is whole.
OKC, because it offers virtually no upscale shopping, is in the hole.

Catchy, huh?

What you're not getting is that Dallas has a population greater than all of Oklahoma and we're never going to get the kind of shopping that they have as long as that is the case. The original point of all of this was that OKC wasn't doing enough to attract high end shopping. I keep saying over and over again that I'm not against OKC getting more options in shopping and hope it happens. The city, itself, is limited in what in can do to achieve that. I've never said that people don't go to Dallas to shop even if that is just an excuse for a weekend trip, just that the overall impact on our economy from them is minimal. What you're saying about OKC not attracting anyone from outside of the metro for shopping is ridiculous. We get shoppers from all over the state.

[ljbab728]

Well lets start off ljbab728- Dallas has Neiman Marcus, Saks, Nordstrom, True Religion Store, Versace, Barneys, Hermes, Brooks Brothers. On the more affordable side, Cost Plus World Market, IKEA, Urban Outfitters etc...........This is probably why most people go to Dallas to shop since "none" of these stores are located in OKC. There may be a few people that shop in Dallas to brag however, for you to make that general assumption is a pretty weak argument. Maybe people like to get out of town for the weekend for their outings and Dallas offers many things that OKC just does not have. Not to mention, all the great restaurants that Dallas has that OKC does not.

When you start mentioning the restaurants, that just reinforces my statement that many people just like to go there for a weekend getaway and include many things besides shopping. I've never said that Dallas didn't offer stores that we don't have and that may appeal to a few people. The vast majority of middle class citizens in OKC could care less. I'm in the travel business and know well why people go various places so I'm not just making general assumptions.

[ljbab728]

It's really great that you can divine the intentions of hundreds of thousands of people who leave our state to go shopping.

That seems to be what other posters here have been doing.

[Spartan]

What you're not getting is that Dallas has a population greater than all of Oklahoma and we're never going to get the kind of shopping that they have as long as that is the case. The original point of all of this was that OKC wasn't doing enough to attract high end shopping. I keep saying over and over again that I'm not against OKC getting more options in shopping and hope it happens. The city, itself, is limited in what in can do to achieve that. I've never said that people don't go to Dallas to shop even if that is just an excuse for a weekend trip, just that the overall impact on our economy from them is minimal. What you're saying about OKC not attracting anyone from outside of the metro for shopping is ridiculous. We get shoppers from all over the state.

Simply put, there's a reason all the high-end chains are going to Tulsa, and not OKC.

The vast majority of middle class citizens in OKC could care less.

Unfortunately I do not trust people who claim to be in touch with the vast majority of people.

[ljbab728]

Simply put, there's a reason all the high-end chains are going to Tulsa, and not OKC.



Unfortunately I do not trust people who claim to be in touch with the vast majority of people.

lol, unlike you being in touch with a few?

[Spartan]

I'm not trying to persuade anyone into believing that I'm in touch with anything near a majority of any kind of people, unlike you..

[ljbab728]

I'm not trying to persuade anyone into believing that I'm in touch with anything near a majority of any kind of people, unlike you..

You could have fooled me. But then, unlike you, I've lived in the OKC area since 1947, so what do I know?