Council resolution to accept 5% paycut

[Wambo36]

Yeah, I've been reading that thread. Interesting opinions.

[Steve]

I'll be very curious to see if the city continues to subsidize the river boats and engage in other expenditures like that if it goes through with public safety layoffs.
(uh-oh... might have just p-ssed-off another group)

[Wambo36]

I wouldn't worry about it. People get over it pretty quick with a little honest discussion. I really want to see if they continue along the layoff path while the mayor keeps insisting it's not going to happen. Did you happen to see him on ch.9 news last night? He was saying that not only would there be no layoffs, but they were going to hire more FF's. I really don't know what to think.

[Steve]

Didn't see that report. Intriguing. There's an item on the council docket tonight - apparently the May 11th contract election is canceled, but since I'm not covering all this, I'm just an avg guy trying to figure this whole thing out. Looks like city staff and/or council is not happy with the ballot that they feel was being forced on them.

[Wambo36]

After doing a little research, it appears they never filed for an election with the election board. They claimed to. That's pretty interesting. Did they ever intend to have the election or was it just a negotiation ploy? That seems to be the line of disconnect that we have with the city. Either the right hand doesn't know what the left hands doing, or they are working in unison to keep everyone confused.

[Mikemarsh51]

Steve, apparently there never was an election called for. When one of our officials called the election board to inquire about it, they were told that nothing had ever been started in reference to this election.

[Steve]

Alright then....

[Mikemarsh51]

Steve, you know we dont get much more than wages, insurance and job security. There are no bonuses for workers like us. I do wonder what a Christmas bonus would be like? And Job security is a benefit I suppose.

[Steve]

Um... if I answer that Mike you're gonna get mad at me. So I'll stay quiet and we'll remain cool. I'm betting when we both retire you'll be the guy who can afford to buy us both a meal at Mickey Mantle Steakhouse.

[Wambo36]

Might be a toss up. I don't see any of us getting wealthy in our chosen fields. Maybe Texas Roadhouse. I'll buy.

[Steve]

See, here's the deal: you spend all your time online criticizing any effort to bring retail into Bricktown, but are you even visiting the stores that open? And if you're frustrated with how things are going, have you considered getting involved and finding out how to play a role in getting it all changed?
(oh wait - that's a flashback - post traumatic digital stress syndrome)

[Wambo36]

You might need some sleep.LOL

[Steve]

Nope. Can't sleep yet. Watching Thunder game. What the heck do you guys at the station have on? If it's a cooking show, I'll be really, really disappointed.

[Wambo36]

Going back to the election, if we could take anything they say at face value it would make dealing with them a lot simpler. It seems to be a pattern that we hear one thing on the news and a completely different thing face to face. Very frustrating.

No cooking show. Thunder all the way. Up by 1!

[Wambo36]

Disappointing loss. Great season.

[Steve]

Loved how the crowd gave a standing ovation after game loss. Reminds me why I love this city.

[Wambo36]

Agree completely. The people are one of the biggest selling points this city has IMO.

[Larry OKC]

Didn't see that report. Intriguing. There's an item on the council docket tonight - apparently the May 11th contract election is canceled, but since I'm not covering all this, I'm just an avg guy trying to figure this whole thing out. Looks like city staff and/or council is not happy with the ballot that they feel was being forced on them.

Steve, apparently there never was an election called for. When one of our officials called the election board to inquire about it, they were told that nothing had ever been started in reference to this election.

Oklahoma City pushes election back on fire union (Oklahoman, 11/11/09) NewsOK

The election was scheduled for February, but council members changed the date to May 11 to allow time for a lawsuit to play out over the language on the ballot.
...
...the election needed to be postponed because of the litigation. The city and the fire union continue to negotiate over the contract, with the city making a new offer last week. If they reach an agreement, the election would be canceled.

The article also explains the Ballot language debate.

Since the election was canceled, does that mean an agreement was reached? If so, what was the agreement?

[Mikemarsh51]

Steve, I always say I'm a blessed man 3 kids, 2 jobs and 1 wife. So I may buy you a steak. I would probably go to Cusacks or Wheelers and pick up some T-bones cause I'm cheap like that.

Larry OKC, there is no agreement. The city has said they will not agree to anything until we remove any and all language about them being found guilty of an unfair labor practice. The arbitraitor found them guilty and it is in their ruling. The city is scrambling now to get some kind of concessions, but the economy is getting better and soon they wont be able to justify that or lay offs. Another day in paradise!!

[Wambo36]

Like Mikemarsh said, there has been no agreement reached. They have turned down the FF's offer to settle, without the raise awarded in arbitration, at least 3 times now.

I think the point your missing about the election is that there are deadlines to meet in order to have the election put together. There are ballots to approve and print, and machines to program, test and deliver before an election can take place. They have apparently not even attempted to start this process with the election board, let alone meet these deadlines. If the election board hasn't even been contacted about an election, let alone postponing one, what are we supposed to believe?

The ballot language issue was a foregone conclusion. The city broke the law, plain and simple. They then went to court and tried to get the judge to overlook the fact that they broke the law and allow them to put illegal language on the ballot. I can't believe they really expected to prevail in this. Quite the waste of taxpayers money.

(Bold print for emphasis, not shouting.)

[kevinpate]

Ok, not my town, but I do find it fascinating at times. So the newest twist is the city dropped the ball on setting up the election ... and no one knew?

That seems a bit egg on the face. Not just folk in city govt., but also the the union, and the press.

Rather odd.

[Wambo36]

Ok, not my town, but I do find it fascinating at times. So the newest twist is the city dropped the ball on setting up the election ... and no one knew?

The twist is that even though they have put out two dates for the proposed election(the original date and the posponed date) they apparently haven't taken the first steps to make them happen. When they put out dates for elections, you take it for granted that they have taken the initial steps to make it happen. We've been taking them at their word since it didn't seem to be in their best interest to put it out there if it wasn't true. And yes, someone knew. They knew.

That seems a bit egg on the face. Not just folk in city govt., but also the the union, and the press.

I'm not sure how the union has egg on their face since it's not incumbent on them to follow through on the citys announced intention to have an election. They're just waiting to be told when. In their defense, they did start doing some calling when things started to sound screwy.

Rather odd.

Not really. Not if you've ever dealt with them from our side of things. Fairly typical, sad to say.

[kevinpate]

I get your points Wambo, but from a distance, there does seem enough egg to go around.

The union folks, at least my understanding of it from prior articles and active members posting here, have a need to educate the public regarding the election, at least if they want to influence the vote they do.

Frankly, they seem to have missed a nice PR moment on their side.

Envision if you will, rather than multiple proposals pressing the language that they knew was a stumbling block if the union called a presser and took the city to task for announcing an election to the public, and apparently changing its date, but having never taken the proper steps to hold an election. Might of made a nice little seize the day moment, and a stronger one than is available at this late date.

To say the union relied on the city to have done what it said, when most comments are the union doesn't feel it can rely on the city, to do what it says in lots of other ways, just seems odd.

I can agree that's not as odd as the city having way more egg on its face by botching the whole process, but it is still a tad odd, at least to me.
mileage can vary and all that I suppose.

I have a hunch the next time the city announces an election, of just about any sort, but especially one that impacts the PS folks, there will be one less presumption by the PS leadership.

I have a hunch the same is true for the 4th estate. After all, to be reporting on an election that isn't even going to happen .... not their finest hour either.

[rcjunkie]

The twist is that even though they have put out two dates for the proposed election(the original date and the posponed date) they apparently haven't taken the first steps to make them happen. When they put out dates for elections, you take it for granted that they have taken the initial steps to make it happen. We've been taking them at their word since it didn't seem to be in their best interest to put it out there if it wasn't true. And yes, someone knew. They knew.


I'm not sure how the union has egg on their face since it's not incumbent on them to follow through on the citys announced intention to have an election. They're just waiting to be told when. In their defense, they did start doing some calling when things started to sound screwy.


Not really. Not if you've ever dealt with them from our side of things. Fairly typical, sad to say.

Wow, Wambo36 spewing how the City is totally at fault/wrong, and the Union is right, who would have guessed. I know for a fact that the City did file a request with the Election Board, it might be time to find a new source for your information, if it's coming from the Union Officers, maybe something to remember at the next election.

[Wambo36]

Well danielf, maybe you can share where your info is coming from. You see, I question whether they ever really had any intent of going to an election in the first place. Maybe that's why, when called, the election board hadn't heard anything about it. Or maybe, it was dependant on getting a judge to overlook the illegal ballot language they wanted to use. Or maybe, they keep turning down the offers to settle because they secretly want to give us the raise and back pay instread. Why don't you ask your super secret and reliable source with the city to answer those questions dan. Ask them why the Firechief is calling people in to advise them of their impending layoff while the mayor is still promising, not only no layoffs but, even more FF's on tv. That would be some interesting info to hear. Let us know when you get those answers dan.

Please let me know how the FF's are at fault, or to blame, for anything to do with the canceling of the citys election.

By the way, are you still planning to address the council if/when they begin layoffs?