Council resolution to accept 5% paycut

[rcjunkie]

While I totally disagree with cuts to Police/Fire, without MAPS and if the City had done nothing to improve the quality of life in this Great City, the proposed or possible cuts would definitely have been much deeper.

[MikeOKC]

"A yes vote puts more police and fire jobs out on the streets"
I'll be as interested as anybody to hear how this is addressed. So now here's the question, with this in mind, and I'm not taking sides here, does this cause some to question the mayor's other promises relating to MAPS 3?
- He has promised a fair and open selection process for a convention center.
- He has promised the projects on the council resolution on MAPS 3 will be built as listed.
- He has promised the MAPS 3 oversight board will be given independence to review and make recommendations relating to the projects.

These are exactly the questions I ask myself. A lot of MAPS 3 is based on trust that officials will do what they SAY they will do, with little to no consequences for breaking those pledges. They can smile and deflect the blame, but it's hard to have complete faith when statements like those from Mayor Cornett's were cut and dried with little wiggle room. When someone looks you in the eye and says, "With X - Y WILL HAPPEN," and in fact, the opposite occurs, it gives me pause.

[Wambo36]

These are exactly the questions I ask myself. A lot of MAPS 3 is based on trust that officials will do what they SAY they will do, with little to no consequences for breaking those pledges. They can smile and deflect the blame, but it's hard to have complete faith when statements like those from Mayor Cornett's were cut and dried with little wiggle room. When someone looks you in the eye and says, "With X - Y WILL HAPPEN," and in fact, the opposite occurs, it gives me pause.

I have to think more people than you would be asking the same questions if only the news media would cover it with the same zeal they covered the campaign. Thanks to Fox25 and KOCO some questions are being asked. They seem to be the right questions, if the uncomfortable look on the mayors face means anything. Maybe the DOK and the other two stations will catch up next month. I won't be holding my breath.

[kevinpate]

PS biggest PR nightmare -

if it turns out the general populace truly isn't concerned about the proposed cuts


Not saying that this will happen.
Not saying it would be anything short of horridly short-sighted if it happens.

But, given the long running city budget perception, and the constant reports for months of continuing budget woes at state level and beyond, it could happen. Compared to other shortages out there, a 8-12% cut doesn't sound that terrible, even when it is a deep cut. The nature of bad news that isn't as bad as other news that came before it.

Luck with it all.

[Mikemarsh51]

Kevinpate, how do you think a district court order requiring the manpower not drop below 948 personnel affect things?

[Mikemarsh51]

An update, currently as of today the city has lowered the amount that was going to be cut from the fire department budget from $9,000,000.00 to 2,850,000.00. This is better news, we still are hoping that sales tax reciepts continue to rise.

[ljbab728]

An update, currently as of today the city has lowered the amount that was going to be cut from the fire department budget from $9,000,000.00 to 2,850,000.00. This is better news, we still are hoping that sales tax reciepts continue to rise.

That is good news and, while I'm not familiar with what prompted this decision, it sounds like the city is not just "out to get the fire department" as some on here seem to think. It sounds like they will make adjustments based on current situations.

[NikonNurse]

This is also what the police department has heard. With this, they will be able to adjust without removing officers.

[andy157]

That is good news and, while I'm not familiar with what prompted this decision, it sounds like the city is not just "out to get the fire department" as some on here seem to think. It sounds like they will make adjustments based on current situations.

This has nothing to do with the idea that some of us on here think that the City is only "out to get" the Fire Department. It has to do with the fact that some of us on here are Firefighters, both active and retired. Therefore our concerns are related to, and we are more vocal about, Fire issues, nothing more, nothing less.

[ljbab728]

This has nothing to do with the idea that some of us on here think that the City is only "out to get" the Fire Department. It has to do with the fact that some of us on here are Firefighters, both active and retired. Therefore our concerns are related to, and we are more vocal about, Fire issues, nothing more, nothing less.

Andy, that may be true but to those of us not personally involved it sounds that way sometimes.

[Mikemarsh51]

The Fire chief has required the last class of firefighters to attend a meeting today. This meeting is to inform them of their impending termination.

[Steve]

Is this a last in, first out thing where seniority, not skill or achievement, determines who stays or goes?

[Wambo36]

Is this a last in, first out thing where seniority, not skill or achievement, determines who stays or goes?

Yes. But you already knew that didn't you?

[rcjunkie]

Is this a last in, first out thing where seniority, not skill or achievement, determines who stays or goes?

Nothing new, this is a Union issue, not fair, but it is what it is. I dealt with this issue many time involvng AFSCME Employees.

[Mikemarsh51]

Wow Steve, I was told to be careful in discussions with you. It is not hard to see where you stand. Of course, this is an opinion board. That was a nice dagger you threw!

[Steve]

Not a dagger... just asking questions. People hate questions. I'm actually quite likable when you get to know me. I know of some folks who are very frustrated with these rules in Tulsa, and was asking if it were true here as well. Maybe I should quit asking questions. Nobody seems to like them on this site.

[Larry OKC]

Steve, keep asking the questions!

[Wambo36]

Steve, keep asking the questions!

Yes Steve, please keep asking questions. Even the ones you know the answers to in advance. How about asking them of both sides while your at it.

Why don't you tell us the layoff methods used by the DOK recently during their last round of layoffs. Did seniority and experience count for nothing there? Was the staff of the DOK all of a sudden 15-20 years younger across the board? Did getting rid of the more experienced people extend into upper management or was it just for the average working stiff? Have you always been such a fan of youth over experience? Are you going to be such a fan of this retention methodology when you're another 10 years into the job? See, you're not the only one who likes to ask questions.

[Steve]

Honestly Wambo - I really didn't know if this were true with OCFD - and that's why I was asking. And it's been my experience in the private sector that employees close to retirement were given the option to go for early retirement first, and then the employees with poor performance records were then the first ones cut. Maybe I should go back to the Bricktown thread and discuss retail with Metro.

[Wambo36]

Not a dagger... just asking questions. People hate questions. I'm actually quite likable when you get to know me. I know of some folks who are very frustrated with these rules in Tulsa, and was asking if it were true here as well. Maybe I should quit asking questions. Nobody seems to like them on this site.

No, not a dagger, just a slanted question meant to imply your opinion.

Exactly what rules are people very frustrated with in Tulsa?

I have no doubt you're a regular teddy bear when one gets to know you. Most of us are. We're just a little protective of what we consider to be our interests.

[Steve]

I hear you. There are some teachers in Tulsa, good ones, about to lose their jobs simply because they're new, and they can tell horror stories about veteran teachers who are protected simply because they've been around a long time.

[Wambo36]

My wife is a school teacher and she feels the same way. She has seen some good teachers let go when they can't make room for them. It's a difficult situation that doesn't have an easy answer. Teaching is a profession that can really wear you down if you let it. You have to love what you're doing or it'll end up showing in your performance. She's been teaching for 23 years and is still a yearly candidate for teacher of the year. She loves it but it's not easy by any means.

I know you'd rather be here than dicsussing bricktown retail with metro.

[Steve]

Why can't the bad employees be fired or put in front on the lines for lay-offs? This is something I've never understood, and seriously, I'm interested in what you've got to say, and I'll listen with an open mind. But with lay-offs looming, it seems like now is as good a time as any to get a better understanding of what's behind this sort of process.

[Wambo36]

In our line of work we are all put through a very rigorous line of training that is not optional. It is put on all of us equally so we know the man or woman next to us has passed the same training and has the same basic qualifications. Poor job performance evaluations are used to build a case for termination at the time, not put in a file waiting for layoffs. We've never had layoffs before so I can't really tell you anything about the process except that it is addressed in our contract and is based on seniority. We all know the process but none of us has ever seen it in practice. Seeing as poor job performance is usually addressed at the time it occurs and is either rectified or carried on to the next step, it doesn't really figure into the process.

[Steve]

That makes sense - and I can see what you mean in terms of going into an unusual situation in terms of public safety layoffs.
Care to discuss Bricktown retail now? (I kid! I kid!)