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  1. #1
    Patrick Guest

    Default MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    This isn't unexpected, but looks like there are going to be some shifts in the MAPS for Kids plan. Looks like more schools are going to remain open on the booming South side than originally planned. Why? Growing population. Finally, the OKC Public School System is thinking towards the future. Looks like some expansion plans are going to be downsized at more stable schools, while more growing schools are going to be expanded further to accomodate future needs. Still, every school will be brought into the 21st century with massive renovations.
    IMO, great shift of the funds before major construction starts on neighborhood elementary schools.

    -----------------
    "MAPS for Kids revised



    The Oklahoma City School District will consider changes to the taxpayer-funded MAPS for Kids plan because of shifting student populations. This is a comparison between the old plan and the new one for schools that would receive changes.
    Biggest changes

    School; Original plan; New plan

    Arthur Elementary; School to close; PreK-6, 10 new classrooms

    Bodine Elementary; PreK-8, 22 new classrooms; PreK-6, 14 new classrooms

    Edgemere Elementary; PreK-8, 7 new classrooms; PreK-6, 2 new classrooms

    Edwards Elementary; PreK-6, 13 new classrooms; PreK-6, 8 new classrooms

    F.D. Moon Academy; PreK-8, 5 new classrooms; Grades 7-8, no new classrooms

    Hayes Elementary; School to close; PreK-6, 3 new classrooms

    Hillcrest Elementary; PreK-6, no new classrooms; PreK-6, 5 new classrooms

    Jackson Middle; PreK-8, 23 new classrooms; PreK-6, 15 new classrooms

    Parmelee Elementary; PreK-2, no new classrooms; PreK-6, 10 new classrooms

    Pierce Elementary; PreK-8, 34 new classrooms; PreK-6, 4 new classrooms

    Putnam Heights Elementary; PreK-8, 16 new classrooms; PreK-6, 4 new classrooms

    Rancho Village Elementary; PreK-6, no new classrooms; PreK-6, 6 new classrooms

    Rockwood Elementary; School to close; PreK-6, 17 new classrooms

    Spencer Elementary; School to close; PreK-6, 4 new classrooms

    Stand Watie Elementary; PreK-6, 5 new classrooms; PreK-6, 10 new classrooms

    U.S. Grant High; Grades 9-12, 83 classrooms; Grades 9-12, 95 classrooms

    Webster Middle; Grades 3-8, 30 new classrooms; Grades 7-8, 17 new classrooms

    Western Village Charter; K-6, 20 new classrooms; PreK-6, no new classrooms

    Other changes

    Britton Elementary: K-6, 21 new classrooms; PreK-6, 21 new classrooms

    Cesar Chavez Elementary: PreK-8, 64 new classrooms; PreK-6, 64 new classrooms

    Classen SAS: Grades 6-12, 10 new classrooms; Grades 7-12, 10 new classrooms

    Coolidge Elementary: PreK-6, 11 new classrooms; PreK-6, 13 new classrooms

    Fillmore Elementary: PreK-6, 10 new classrooms; PreK-6, 12 new classrooms

    Gatewood Elementary: PreK-8, 8 new classrooms; PreK-6, 4 new classrooms

    Green Pastures Elementary: K-8, 19 new classrooms; K-6, 19 new classrooms

    Heronville Elementary: PreK-8, 23 new classrooms; K-6, 23 new classrooms

    Hoover Middle: K-6, no new classrooms; PreK-6, no new classrooms

    Horace Mann Elementary: K-6, no new classrooms; PreK-6, no new classrooms

    Johnson Elementary: K-6, no new classrooms; PreK-6, no new classrooms

    Kaiser Elementary: PreK-6, 17 new classrooms; PreK-6, 15 new classrooms

    King Elementary: PreK-8, 60 classrooms; PreK-6, 54 new classrooms

    Lee Elementary: PreK-8, 10 new classrooms; PreK-6, 10 new classrooms

    Linwood Elementary: PreK-6, no new classrooms; PreK-6, 4 new classrooms

    New elementary: PreK-8, 64 new classrooms; PreK-6, 64 new classrooms

    Nichols Hills Elementary: K-6, 13 new classrooms; PreK-6, 8 new classrooms

    North Highland Elementary: K-6, 18 new classrooms; PreK-6, 13 new classrooms

    Parks Elementary: PreK-6, 16 new classrooms; PreK-6, 11 new classrooms

    Prairie Queen Elementary: PreK-6, 6 new classrooms; PreK-6, 8 new classrooms

    Quail Creek Elementary: K-6, 13 new classrooms; PreK-6, 13 new classrooms

    Ridgeview Elementary: K-6, no new classrooms; PreK-6, no new classrooms

    Rogers Middle: PreK-8, no new classrooms; Grades 7-8, no new classrooms

    Roosevelt Middle: PreK-8, no new classrooms; Grades 7-8, no new classrooms

    Shidler Elementary: PreK-8, 11 new classrooms; PreK-6, 6 new classrooms

    Telstar Elementary: PreK-8, 2 new classrooms; PreK-6, 2 new classrooms

    Van Buren Elementary: PreK-5, no new classrooms; PreK-6, no new classrooms

    West Nichols Hills Elementary: K-6, 7 new classrooms; PreK-6, 7 new classrooms

    Wheeler Elementary: PreK-8, 9 new classrooms; PreK-6, 7 new classrooms

    Willow Brook Elementary: PreK-8, 2 new classrooms; PreK-6, 2 new classrooms "

  2. #2
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    "District to vote on project changes


    By Michael Bratcher
    The Oklahoman

    From slashing plans for new classrooms to halting four school closures, Oklahoma City School District officials say changes are in order for MAPS for Kids.
    MAPS for Kids revised

    The nearly $700 million plan passed by voters in November 2001 calls for about $512 million in renovation and construction.

    District officials say population changes during the past five years fuel a need to rethink the plan.

    A proposal brought before the school board last week includes keeping open four schools once targeted for closure. Three south Oklahoma City elementary schools -- Arthur, Rockwood and Hayes -- and one school in the northeastern part of the district, Spencer Elementary, would be rescued.

    "I have parents who went here and now their children are going here, so they're very happy," Arthur Principal Barbara Hess said about the announcement. "This is their neighborhood school, and everybody was sad to hear it was going to be closing."

    Across the district, more than 40 schools will be directly affected by the district's new proposal. Some schools will receive more classrooms than planned; others fewer.

    The original plan called for Pierce Elementary to receive 34 new classrooms for students being transferred from Rockwood, a school that was to be closed.

    George Kimball, the district's planning director, said the proposal now calls for Pierce to receive four classrooms and Rockwood to be expanded by 17 classrooms.

    Kimball said the new suggestions should not raise the price tag.

    "These changes tend to be revenue neutral," he said.

    School board members could vote on the district's new plan as early as next week.

    Five meetings are scheduled this week to seek community input, but one parent says the district is working on too short a time line.

    "I don't think you can take something back to the community and then plan it as a board agenda item two weeks later," said Dawn Shelton, the mother of two students at Gatewood Elementary. "There's no time to really listen to what the people have said."

    Parents in northeast Oklahoma City shared their concerns about the changes during a meeting Thursday night. One parent asked if the new Douglass High School -- proposed to serve grades nine through 12 -- could also serve junior high students.

    Kimball said that option could be discussed by the board at an upcoming meeting.

    The planning director said the changes result from an increasing student population in the city's south side and a decline in enrollment in northeast Oklahoma City.

    Kimball said the MAPS for Kids proposal didn't account for such large population shifts or the loss of more than 2,800 students to charter schools. When the plan was created in 2000, charter schools didn't exist in Oklahoma City.

    Superintendent Bob Moore said the most important goal is to make sure all students can learn in a safe and modern environment.

    "With this in mind, it is important that we implement a plan that is as flexible as the city's changing population," he said. "The changing demographics do not create roadblocks but do make it necessary for district, city and trust officials to step back and seek solutions."

    While the district recognizes declining enrollment in northeast Oklahoma City, Spencer Elementary Principal Linda Matthews says new homes are under construction just a block away from her school.

    Spencer was among a handful of schools set to close under the original plan. But officials now propose it remain open.

    "I think the district made a very good decision," Matthews said. "I think it's great for the community."

    She said the community never gave up hope about the school's fate, even after original plans were announced. She said different groups now are proposing to come in and help improve the school.

    Other changes include the removal of Western Village Charter School from the plan. Officials said school administrators petitioned not to be expanded as shown in the plan. And the former Harrison School, which housed Gateway Academy, would remain closed, if the new plan is approved.

    Kimball said the changes would bring the number of operating schools -- not counting charter schools -- to 74. "

  3. #3

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    I noticed John Marshal was finally under construction. I'm very excited about this. But at the same time very nervous as well. I'm used to my sheltered world of Quail Creek Elementary. The old John Marshal doesn't have the greatest track record. Are we just moving that school into this new one? I know many of the parents are concerned. I hate paying private school and thinks it utterly ridiculous to be forced to go there. Even though I have to say I'm one of those forced into it. It was that or move. I have 3 kids and I want an awesome local high school to be proud of.

  4. #4
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Unfortunately, the students at John Marshall won't change. They'll just be moving the same students over into a nicer area. I feel sorry for residents of The Greens and the Invitational and Augusta Apartments.

    asta2, you're not alone in your thinking. Many parents leave their children in the OKC Schools for elementary school, only to pull them out and send them to private school after elementary school.

    Maybe someday, before your children get to high school, the OKC Public Schools will improve, but for now, improved buildings won't solve all of the problems.

  5. #5
    swake Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Reading this brings up a question for me. Why do parents have to pull their children out of public schools in OKC before high school? Are there not any options like magnet schools?

    I went to Tulsa BT Washington for high school. As you may or may not know it is a magnet school created out of the forced busing court rulings in the 1970s. Starting in 1975 the best teachers were recruited and all students had to apply and be accepted for admission. The school has no ďdistrictĒ. Since this change it has been one of the top public high schools in the nation. Two years ago a new campus was completed for BTW behind the old campus and finally the buildings match the performance in the classroom.

    Does OKC not have an option like this? If not, why not? I think BTW has a lot to do with why the middle and upper middle class areas in midtown Tulsa have remained in such good shape. BTW has remained an option for parents in the Tulsa school district that canít afford or prefer to not send their children to private schools.

  6. #6

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    An excellent question to ask Bob Moore, Superintendant of OKC Public Schools.

    I believe Northwest Classen is filling that gap to some degree right now.

  7. #7

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Quote Originally Posted by swake
    Reading this brings up a question for me. Why do parents have to pull their children out of public schools in OKC before high school? Are there not any options like magnet schools
    Yes, we have other options. My area school for example feeds into Hoover middle school. Not going to happen. Worst test scores in the city, among other things. We have the option of going to Independence Middle School. If you get in. It's based on a lottery system and pulls from every elementary school in the city. There is also Belle Isle. Both are good schools. My 6 grader got into Independence but her best friend didn't. She had no options but to go to private school. We opted for Christ the King. A very good choice for our family. Another thing to take into consideration is there is no school funded transportation to these schools. If you have 2 working parents it's tough. Luckily for us there are 3 families in my neighborhood that I can car pool with.

    So yes you have a few other options but those come with a price as well. I never dreamed this would be an issue here. We moved from Texas 8 years ago. Our realtor told us we would go to one of the best elementary schools. We did but no one mentioned that we had no no middle school or high school. It's very sad. I live in a nice house but again with 3 kids, $14,000 a pop for private school is out of the question. It's cheaper to send them to OU.

    The only advantage this new John Marshal will have is that the parents in this area are extremely proactive. Parent involvment is what makes schools like Nichols Hills and Quail Creek do so well. Yes, these are higher income areas but mom's like me who work full time make the time to be there. I'm hoping my youngest two can go to the new high school. My oldest will stay at Christ the King and continue on to Bishop McGuiness. I may have to get a 3rd job. So much for saving for college!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Patrick; 02-16-2005 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Inserting code for the quote

  8. #8
    swake Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Then press OKC schools for better. BTW and itís feeder middle school Carver have no school districts and buses are available from anywhere in the district, it just takes awhile. In the eighties when I was in school I took a bus for almost an hour to BTW. It can be done. Admissions are not done on a lottery, the top qualified students get in, thatís it. The rules changed recently since race based admissions are no longer allowed so that a balanced number of students come from each region of the district, but itís still based on performance. Ask why OKC schools canít do what Tulsa does, they are similar urban districts with the same state funding. If anything, OKC should be better off with the Maps for Kids. BTW was just completely rebuilt, but they were budget strapped when it was built and Iím guessing itís not as nice as what you are getting there. My kids go to elementary school in Jenks and even the brand new BTW has nothing on the facilities that Jenks has, and Jenks just keeps building.

  9. #9

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    [QUOTE=asta2]
    Quote Originally Posted by swake
    The only advantage this new John Marshal will have is that the parents in this area are extremely proactive. Parent involvment is what makes schools like Nichols Hills and Quail Creek do so well. Yes, these are higher income areas but mom's like me who work full time make the time to be there. I'm hoping my youngest two can go to the new high school. My oldest will stay at Christ the King and continue on to Bishop McGuiness. I may have to get a 3rd job. So much for saving for college!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If money is an issue at McGuinness, when I was there, they did have a work-study program where students would work after school to clean floors, scrape gum, whatever. In return, the school would either fully or partially take care of their tuition. Also, if you're Catholic, some churches offer scholarships to McGuinness for students based on need and merit.

    Or, if you have several kids in school at the same time, you could always rent a cheap apartment in Edmond and send them to Edmond schools claiming that apartment as your home address

  10. Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    The changes just go to show how wrong a lot of people were about South Oklahoma City.
    Although largely mexican in growth, the southside is fast becoming a major player.

  11. #11
    swake Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    [QUOTE=Midtowner]
    Quote Originally Posted by asta2

    If money is an issue at McGuinness, when I was there, they did have a work-study program where students would work after school to clean floors, scrape gum, whatever. In return, the school would either fully or partially take care of their tuition. Also, if you're Catholic, some churches offer scholarships to McGuinness for students based on need and merit.

    Or, if you have several kids in school at the same time, you could always rent a cheap apartment in Edmond and send them to Edmond schools claiming that apartment as your home address

    That happens in Jenks and the schools have people who have the job of verifiing residency. And people turn in people all the time, my kid gets in a fight with your kid and I know you live outside the district, so I call the service center. I would not do that, but it happens.

  12. Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    About 25 years ago, I lived down the street from Arthur. It was a sleepy southwest neighborhood, aging, rather on the dull side. It's still not exactly exciting today, but it's bustling, and there seem to be a lot more kids around. I'm not surprised they're reopening the school.

  13. #13
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    swake, actually there are several magnet schools in the Oklahoma City Public School District now.

    1. Northeast Academy for Health Sciences and Engineering (formerly Northeast High school) is a science and engineering magnet school. Entrance is by application only. Northeast has actually had a medical magnet program for about 15 years now. I graduated from there. It only became a complete magnet school within the past few years though. It draws from the entire district, and applications are accepted based on merit.

    2. Classen School for Advanced Studies- this school is for the cream of the crop, with a focus on advanced college courses and the arts/theater. Admission is by application only. Admission based on merit. This is the crown jewel of the OKC High Schools.

    3. Southeast High School- admission by application only. This school focuses mainly on technical careers, and much of the day is spent at the area vo-tech.

    There are several magnet middle schools and elementary schools as well.

  14. #14
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    The OKC Public Schools face larger problems than the Tulsa School District. The OKC school district is still suffering from the effects of forced busing and de-segregation. One thing to remember....we didn't end cross-town busing until just a few years ago.

    Over the years, the wealthy began to move to the suburban districts, to escaped forced crosstown busing. Elementary schools survived somewhat because they weren't involved in the desegregation process. Strangely, neighborhood elementary schools remained, while neighborhood middle and high schools all but disappeared.

    Those that chose to stay within the boundaries of the OKC School District sent their children to private school after elementary school, or they simply moved out of the boundaries of the OKC School District.

    Unfortunately, the damage has already been done. The money has moved to the 'burbs and it's difficult to attract that money back.

    Tulsa wasn't as severely affected by desegregation as OKC was. You have to remember, OKC was a test pilot city for the plan.

    Our schools deteriorated during the entire period. Why? Well, under new guidelines, the feds were forcing the OKC school district to spend the same amount of money on "black" schools as they spent on "white" schools. The district didn't want to comply, so to keep from having to spread the wealth around, they just decided not to present any new bond issues to the people. This "retaliation" effort went on from the 60's thru the 90's. Over that time, improvements weren't made to our schools, and the buildings deteriorated. Thus, the reason for the need for MAPS for Kids today.

    I suppose desegregation worked. Now, the "white" schools are just as run-down as the "black" schools. And the district is 1/3 white, 1/3 Hispanic, and 1/3 black.

    One thing to point out though....de-segregation didn't really work. White people ended up fleeing the OKC School district and thus they naturally segregated themselves. Now, instead of having a white wealthy John Marshall, NW Classen, and US Grant, like you used to have, you instead of a wealthy Edmond, Yukon, Mustang, and Moore School (Westmoore) District.

    I think it's pretty obvious, that people naturally segregate themselves. Just watch what happens when a few black people start moving into a white neighborhood. Eventually the white people start moving.

    This is unfortunate, but it's true. It happens. I've seen it happen in the Crown Heights area, only there things are a little different. There, Security just harasses the black families to the point that they don't want to live there anymore. Sad, but true.

    Hope that clarifies things.

  15. #15
    swake Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Well, then Tulsa was lucky in that. Tulsa was required to do busing in 1974 since BTW was 99% black. But instead of busing and ending neighborhood schools they closed the BTW for a year, redistributed the students to other high schools and reopened BTW as a magnet school. The worst school became the best.

    Tulsa does have other magnet high schools. Thereís McLain which became the worst school with the closing of BTW is now TSST, Tulsa School for Science and Technology. Itís still a mess. Edison is now a magnet school of some type too. But none of them have the success of BTW.

    Tulsa as a district has big problems. Too many of the schools have scores that are too low, many schools have been redone, but much more needs to be done. Too many parents donít value education. This is why growth in Tulsa went south over the last 30 years. Jenks schools start at 71st St and Union schools are in the southeast part of the city of Tulsa. Tulsa. Jenks and Union have boomed and are probably the best districts in the state with facilities that rival most colleges, and not just for sports.

    Another question, I was at a school function a year ago or so for a relative at PC North. That is a suburban district in OKC much like Union and Jenks are in Tulsa. Why was the school such a run down mess? Is Maps for kids going to help the PC district too? How did that district get so bad?

  16. #16
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    PC District bad? You must have gone at a bad time. PC North is one of the newest high schools in the city, and PC has consistently produced blue ribbon schools. PC North was a blue ribbon school just a few years back. PC is where all the money is in the metro, outside of the 'burbs like Edmond.

    Are you sure you didn't go to PC West or PC Original? Both of those are older, but still kept up well.

    PC has continued to pass regular bond issues to maintain older buildings. Since they're on the edge of a growing area, they have some newer schools like PC North, Kenneth Cooper Middle School, and Ralph Down's Elementary, but they also have some older schools like Hilldale Elementary, Central Middle School, PC Original, DD Kirkland Elementary, etc. One thing to remember, PC not only covers the wealthy part of NW OKC including the Greens, Warwick. Summerfield, Ski Island, Val Verde, etc. etc., but they also cover poorer parts of Warr Acres and some areas around Bethany.

    I've never really been in PC North when the school looked bad though. They recently remodeled the school though....maybe you went when parts of it were still torn up?


    I think you can compare PC to the suburban districts for quality, but one thing to consider...PC is still in the Oklahoma City area, not the suburban cities, so it's a little different than comparing it to Jenks and Broken Arrow.

  17. #17
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Oh, and to answser your question, PC will be getting a small % of MAPS for Kids money. To make things fair, the "suburban" districts in the OKC area like PC, Millwood, Western Heights, etc. will be getting their cut.

    But, PC probably gets much more from their regular bond issues, than they will from MAPS for Kids.

  18. #18
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    I will admit though that the PC School distrct isn't near as nice as Tulsa Union or even some of our suburban schools districts like Edmond and West Moore, but they're a pretty decent district. One drawback the PC School distrct has is that they do have several older buildings. Parts of the district have been around awhile. There's only so mcuh you can do with an older building.

    Districts like Edmond and Jenks are fortunate to be in growing areas exclusively.

  19. #19
    swake Guest

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Now, you do realize that most of Jenks Public Schools is in the city of Tulsa? Jenks has five large campuses that often include multiple schools each, three of those campuses are in Tulsa. Roughly all of Tulsa east of Memorial and south of 71st is in Jenks Schools. There is no more developable land in Jenks Schools in Tulsa on the east side of the river. The city of Jenks is growing so new students are coming from there, but student populations on the Tulsa side are actually dropping as the average age of the population goes up.

    There are a number of poorer areas in Union schools in eastern Tulsa where there are large Hispanic and Asian communities.

    And I may have been at another PC school, Iím not sure, I thought it was north. It was older, we were in the gym and it was pretty run down. It kind of reminded me of Broken Arrow North Intermediate High School, which is the old Broken Arrow High School, so maybe that is how I got north stuck in my head.

  20. #20

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    FYI the new U.S. Grant high school opened yesterday. It's already operating at capacity.

  21. #21

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    And the new John Marshall is well along... I assume it will be open for next school year.

  22. #22

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Malibu, actually if memory serves me right, the new John Marshall opened a few months ago.

  23. #23

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Malibu, actually if memory serves me right, the new John Marshall opened a few months ago.
    I believe it still has some areas still under construction, but it is open.

  24. #24

    Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Yep, the New John Marshal is open. No one wants to address the problems there. The school board wants to to make it just disappear because they screwed up sooo bad! The surrounding neighborhoods are just hanging thier heads shaking in disbelief. How could they build this beautiful school and fix it to where not ONE child from the surrounding neighborhoods attends there. Doesn't anyone see that this is a problem?

  25. Default Re: MAPS for Kids undergoing changes

    Hey can someone answer if the new John Marshall has a new gym in it? I saw a basketball game on tv (and boy milwood was beating JM hard and playing awesome), but they looked to be at the old JM. I was a bit confused there.

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