What's wrong with OKC road construction/planning?

[Larry OKC]

I agree completely and haven't noticed it elsewhere. Yet.

Some resurfacing/improvement projects are done very well and others...not so much. The City has the same problem. Don't know how many hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions are just poorly spent on shoddy work that should have never been approved (certainly never use them again, but we do). Then it has to be redone again at additional cost.

Just keep our fingers crossed and hope the new I-40 lasts until they have the old crosstown torn down. Before it needs significant repairs. Wouldn't be at all surprised if within 5 years of it opening, we are spending the $1M/year on maintenance we are currently spending on the old crosstown.

[Spartan]

Already commented on this thread, but allow me to repeat. You don't have to 4-lane every single mile street in OKC's 600 square miles.

[okcpulse]

I agree completely and haven't noticed it elsewhere. Yet.

Some resurfacing/improvement projects are done very well and others...not so much. The City has the same problem. Don't know how many hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions are just poorly spent on shoddy work that should have never been approved (certainly never use them again, but we do). Then it has to be redone again at additional cost.

Just keep our fingers crossed and hope the new I-40 lasts until they have the old crosstown torn down. Before it needs significant repairs. Wouldn't be at all surprised if within 5 years of it opening, we are spending the $1M/year on maintenance we are currently spending on the old crosstown.

I know this is an old thread, but I must stress that the new construction methods used for today's new freeways will result in very little maintenance. Lake Hefner Parkway (LHP for short) is now 21 years old and the only maintenance done to that stretch is restriping and installing cable barriers. Broadway Extension from NE 63rd to Memorial also requires little maintenance.

Concrete surface freeways built prior to 1990 in Oklahoma involved reinforced concrete over a packed base, forcing the slabs to settle over the years. White topping, or reinforced concrete over an asphalt surface results in the asphalt stabilizing the base so that concrete doesn't settle.

[C_M_25]

I have a thought regarding this issue. I live up in NW OKC and the construction is maddening. 74/Portland is being prepped for widening from 150th - 178th, May between 164th and 178th, Penn, and every major crossroad from 192nd down to 164th is being widened. I understand this NEEDs to be done; however, May is going on 1 year where that road sat for months on end without work being done on it. It is now finally paved and just needs paint, but it has been sitting 2 weeks just for that.

NOW (my rant), May is down to 30mph for the construction zone, and cops are ALWAYS sitting on that road tagging people left and right. I've seen 3 people pulled over up there at once many times. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for this. The road is all but finished. It just needs freaking paint! I know we have to be safe driving in the work zones, but the amount of traffic patrols up there is suspiciously high...especially considering crime is rampant up there because there are no cops on patrol (go figure).

Now, the other problem. My mile section is surrounded on 3 out of the 4 sides by construction. FINISH A JOB BEFORE YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT!!!! I know the state provides incentives for finishing jobs early, so why can't the city?? It is freaking ridiculous!!! Will I be happy when it is finished? You bet! But things could be a lot better if things had been planned a little more before they started digging up the roads.

[betts]

I think if anyone is going to say we don't have enough police officers, then we need no speed traps in the city. That's a waste of a police officer. It doesn't stop speeding other than temporarily, nor does it stop crime. I'm not sure patrolling stops much crime either, but it does allow officers to respond to crime.

[OKCTalker]

Betts - That makes no sense. Law enforcement isn't linear, e.g., you fight the most severe crime until it is under control and then move to the next less-severe, and so on. You have to fight all of them all of the time.

Besides, police officers aren't interchangeable: You don't take a traffic cop with radar gun and assign him to a murder investigation any more than you'd take a detective and park him next to a school zone.

[C_M_25]

Betts - That makes no sense. Law enforcement isn't linear, e.g., you fight the most severe crime until it is under control and then move to the next less-severe, and so on. You have to fight all of them all of the time.

Besides, police officers aren't interchangeable: You don't take a traffic cop with radar gun and assign him to a murder investigation any more than you'd take a detective and park him next to a school zone.

This makes no sense. Comparing cops to detectives is like comparing apples to oranges. Any cop can run traffic. If there is a slow day, then they can choose to run traffic and write as many tickets as they please. In an area this size, I doubt there are many days that are slow enough to warrant 3 cops watching a one mile stretch of road way out on the edge of the city.

I also disagree with your first statement. You have to fight crime throughout the ENTIRE city limits. You don't just put all your cops in the middle and work your way out. Now, there are certain areas that require a higher density of cops because of the amount of calls that come through, but that doesn't mean you just ignore the other areas. OKC is huge. You need A LOT of cops to patrol the area. You probably need less on the outskirts than in the middle. Now, why are there 2-3 cops on a one mile stretch of road at the edge of the city working traffic? You've effectively taken the resources required to effectively patrol/respond to crime in other areas. It took the police 30 minutes to respond to a home intrusion, but if you happen to be going 45 in a 40, you bet your butt you will be stopped. It makes no sense.

AND, to make things worse, one of the officers that actively patrols out here has stated that he works overtime to work traffic in our area. How much sense does that make? He is making double pay for punishing hard working people who just want to get home at the end of the day. Maybe they should restrict that and add another cop on patrol for the same amount of money.

Back to the topic at hand, construction sucks! It is a nuisance, but it is required. At the same time, it needs to be done in a timely manner. There is one company doing the work on our mile section and they are not efficient at all. The city needs to punish inefficiency and reward efficiency. They need to plan their jobs better, and they really need to think about WHAT needs to be widened. Is it really efficient to make every road a 4 lane? The major N-S roads? Yes. The E-W roads...probably not.

[bluedogok]

Most cities don't have divisions devoted entirely to traffic duty like OKC has had as long as I can remember.

[LakeEffect]

Most cities don't have divisions devoted entirely to traffic duty like OKC has had as long as I can remember.

Yes they do. Most large cities have specific divisions for traffic just like we do.

[bluedogok]

Yes they do. Most large cities have specific divisions for traffic just like we do.

Most places that I know of have not had an officially designated "Traffic" division, all the uniformed officers performed traffic operations but that wasn't their main task. In the 80's I knew some OKCPD "Traffic" officers, their main role (90%) was writing traffic tickets, some of them hated it and would rather had been on patrol duty. Dallas didn't have a specific division when I lived there (91-93, I had 5 DPD officers living in my complex), Austin doesn't and Denver and Aurora don't have them like OKCPD has or had in the past.

[betts]

Betts - That makes no sense. Law enforcement isn't linear, e.g., you fight the most severe crime until it is under control and then move to the next less-severe, and so on. You have to fight all of them all of the time.

Besides, police officers aren't interchangeable: You don't take a traffic cop with radar gun and assign him to a murder investigation any more than you'd take a detective and park him next to a school zone.

What are we paying cops that can only operate radar guns? How about the ones that park by closed traffic lanes with their flashers on? Are they the same people who conduct those ridiculous car chases that the news media loves so much? Pay them a little bit more than a bank teller and let them work until they're 65 since it's not a very intellectual job. Or, let that be the "retirement job" for policemen once they've served their 20 years. There's not much physical labor involved in lifting a radar gun, sitting in a car or writing a traffic ticket. I don't think anyone should be retiring until they're at least 65 nowadays, but perhaps there are some police jobs that are more strenuous and can't be performed by people over 50.

I agree. Fight the most severe crime. I'm not sure how much crime is fought or prevented by traffic cops. It would be interesting to see, however, if they pay for themselves and then some with the tickets they write. If not, spend the money on the important stuff.

[LakeEffect]

Most places that I know of have not had an officially designated "Traffic" division, all the uniformed officers performed traffic operations but that wasn't their main task. In the 80's I knew some OKCPD "Traffic" officers, their main role (90%) was writing traffic tickets, some of them hated it and would rather had been on patrol duty. Dallas didn't have a specific division when I lived there (91-93, I had 5 DPD officers living in my complex), Austin doesn't and Denver and Aurora don't have them like OKCPD has or had in the past.

Denver has a specialized "Traffic Operations" division: Traffic Enforcement | Denver Police Department

Austin has a Motors (motorcycles) division that mainly does traffic-related work (http://austintexas.gov/department/motors) and also a Highway Response Team that focused on traffic (http://austintexas.gov/department/highway-response-team).

Aurora has a special Traffic Section based in District 2: https://www.auroragov.org/LivingHere...lice/index.htm

[LakeEffect]

What are we paying cops that can only operate radar guns? How about the ones that park by closed traffic lanes with their flashers on? Are they the same people who conduct those ridiculous car chases that the news media loves so much? Pay them a little bit more than a bank teller and let them work until they're 65 since it's not a very intellectual job. Or, let that be the "retirement job" for policemen once they've served their 20 years. There's not much physical labor involved in lifting a radar gun, sitting in a car or writing a traffic ticket. I don't think anyone should be retiring until they're at least 65 nowadays, but perhaps there are some police jobs that are more strenuous and can't be performed by people over 50.

I agree. Fight the most severe crime. I'm not sure how much crime is fought or prevented by traffic cops. It would be interesting to see, however, if they pay for themselves and then some with the tickets they write. If not, spend the money on the important stuff.

Betts, in 2009, 33,808 people died in the US as a result of traffic collisions (738 deaths in Oklahoma). Another 2,217,000 were injured. Traffic enforcement is often there to help reduce those numbers, or, in the case of the Sheriff on I-35, finding drugs being trafficked. So, in terms of actual safety, traffic is just as important as curtailing violent crime.

Stats from the US Census Bureau: Motor Vehicle Accidents and Fatalities - The 2012 Statistical Abstract - U.S. Census Bureau, http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1106.pdf and http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1104.pdf

[catch22]

Betts, in 2009, 33,808 people died in the US as a result of traffic collisions (738 deaths in Oklahoma). Another 2,217,000 were injured. Traffic enforcement is often there to help reduce those numbers, or, in the case of the Sheriff on I-35, finding drugs being trafficked. So, in terms of actual safety, traffic is just as important as curtailing violent crime.

Stats from the US Census Bureau: Motor Vehicle Accidents and Fatalities - The 2012 Statistical Abstract - U.S. Census Bureau, http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1106.pdf and http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1104.pdf

I'd rather them do strict enforcement of red light runners and illegal lane changes (pulling into the far outside lane instead of the nearest lane) than doing speed traps. That enforcement would save many more lives.

[LakeEffect]

I'd rather them do strict enforcement of red light runners and illegal lane changes (pulling into the far outside lane instead of the nearest lane) than doing speed traps. That enforcement would save many more lives.

Would it? Speed kills more than anything.

[catch22]

Would it? Speed kills more than anything.

Excessive speed, sure. Intersections are the issue. I see more wrecks at intersections than I do in random spots of a 45mph road.

[Plutonic Panda]

Betts, in 2009, 33,808 people died in the US as a result of traffic collisions (738 deaths in Oklahoma). Another 2,217,000 were injured. Traffic enforcement is often there to help reduce those numbers, or, in the case of the Sheriff on I-35, finding drugs being trafficked. So, in terms of actual safety, traffic is just as important as curtailing violent crime.

Stats from the US Census Bureau: Motor Vehicle Accidents and Fatalities - The 2012 Statistical Abstract - U.S. Census Bureau, http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1106.pdf and http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1104.pdf

Don't think that is just speeding, more people driving recklessly like Catch22 mentioned, running red lights, improper lane changing, inattentive driving, and just flat out being a dumb ass. If people could learn to drive better, I actually think we could stand to see a higher speed limit on the highway. The problem is, a lot of people just don't know how to drive and it would cause more problems than bad.

[BobbyV]

Really? OKC needs to realize that there is a negative impact when you create a road that is too wide for the traffic it carries. It's called dead space. And a drain on public resources.

STOP WIDENING ROADS DAMNIT. GOOD GRIEF.

I know this is an old post but man . . . . the right of ways are already there most of the time and NOKC/Edmond definitely needs more lanes in a bunch of intersections.

Thankfully they're addressing this, unfortunately they seem to be doing it all at once.

[BobbyV]

I have a thought regarding this issue. I live up in NW OKC and the construction is maddening. 74/Portland is being prepped for widening from 150th - 178th, May between 164th and 178th, Penn, and every major crossroad from 192nd down to 164th is being widened. I understand this NEEDs to be done; however, May is going on 1 year where that road sat for months on end without work being done on it. It is now finally paved and just needs paint, but it has been sitting 2 weeks just for that.

NOW (my rant), May is down to 30mph for the construction zone, and cops are ALWAYS sitting on that road tagging people left and right. I've seen 3 people pulled over up there at once many times. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for this. The road is all but finished. It just needs freaking paint! I know we have to be safe driving in the work zones, but the amount of traffic patrols up there is suspiciously high...especially considering crime is rampant up there because there are no cops on patrol (go figure).

Now, the other problem. My mile section is surrounded on 3 out of the 4 sides by construction. FINISH A JOB BEFORE YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT!!!! I know the state provides incentives for finishing jobs early, so why can't the city?? It is freaking ridiculous!!! Will I be happy when it is finished? You bet! But things could be a lot better if things had been planned a little more before they started digging up the roads.

Not only that, but have you noticed all of the different speed limits on the various sections around that particular area?

I mean you can drive 55 on one section then cross Penn and it's down to 45?

I can't stand it when the Oklahoma County Deputies sit on the side of the 4 laned part of Hwy 74 between Waterloo and Covell at night in the dark . . . . seriously? That section should be marked 65 anyway.

[BobbyV]

I'd rather them do strict enforcement of red light runners and illegal lane changes (pulling into the far outside lane instead of the nearest lane) than doing speed traps. That enforcement would save many more lives.

Add folks who run four-way stops and I'm on your side.

[BobbyV]

Would it? Speed kills more than anything.

I'd say poor driving kills with speed being a contributing factor.

[Snowman]

Would it? Speed kills more than anything.

That is somewhat debatable if you read how reports are written up. While it can make the results of an acident worse. Generally drivng ten to fifteen miles over posted speed would not do anything if it were done in isolation (at least highway, interstate and across much of the city's mile line grid). It is often cited with what seems too much weigh for how much it actually was involved along with the primary causes like tailgating, aggressive lane changes, retaliation maneuvers between drivers that have been getting on each others nerves, running lights, ignoring weather conditions, inattentive or impaired driving.

[C_M_25]

Umm....so, I am just watching the news, and they started talking about road construction, i.e. 74 highway and the 235/44 interchange. They had an ODOT rep on tv talking about it. This guy looked like he is about 20!! No wonder road construction is a complete cluster F!!!

[bradh]

Yes because the age of an organization's PR rep is indicative of it's success and efficiency.

[betts]

Betts, in 2009, 33,808 people died in the US as a result of traffic collisions (738 deaths in Oklahoma). Another 2,217,000 were injured. Traffic enforcement is often there to help reduce those numbers, or, in the case of the Sheriff on I-35, finding drugs being trafficked. So, in terms of actual safety, traffic is just as important as curtailing violent crime.

Stats from the US Census Bureau: Motor Vehicle Accidents and Fatalities - The 2012 Statistical Abstract - U.S. Census Bureau, http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1106.pdf and http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1104.pdf

Do we have data that shows that speed traps reduce speeding in general? I am usually one of the few drivers on any highway I'm on who drives the speed limit. Virtually every car passes me, many going significantly over the speed limit. If police are going to sit somewhere, I'd put all of them at school zones.