Maps 3

[Urban Pioneer]

Pat Ryan & Greenwell- Put in CC Budget or end tax early
Meg Salyer- Put the money in the Contingency Fund
Shadid- Put the money in the Contingency Fund and poll the voters and ask them what they want to do with it
Larry McAtee- Put money in CC budget
Pete White- Put money in contingency and develop an innovative idea as to how to deal with the substation aesthetic issue (Deal with how to spend it later)
Gary Marrs- Put money in the in the CC early. Don't end the tax early. Leave them "fully funded."

Discussion still going strong. This could be a very splintered vote possibly.

[Urban Pioneer]

Version B is up for a vote- Puts the $30 million into the contingency fund with an amendment written by a Pete White instructing staff to begin discussion between staff and engineers as to design an innovative aesthetic solution to the substation.

Pat Ryan is fighting back hard.

[Urban Pioneer]

Item fails 4 to 5

[Steve]

No, item passed, 5-4.

[Urban Pioneer]

Thanks for that correction. Going back I see Shadid changed his vote and my phone rang at the same time distracting me.

[Larry OKC]

While it appears to be a moot point now, ending the tax early is an interesting idea, can they even legally do that without a vote of the people? The ordinance (that required a vote of the people) that was approved clearly gives the beginning and ending dates. the length of the tax is one of the few things that is actually "set in stone". I don't recall any clause permitting it to end early as there was with the Ford Tax (if a team wasn't signed by a particular date, the tax would be shortened from 15 months to 12).

Definitely a good idea to put it into the contingency fund since we already know that:

1) there has been a 60 miles/$40 million "mistake" and the Trails Master Plan will not be completed as repeatedly promised

2) due to cost increases we aren't even going to get the 57 miles of trails that were promised (32 instead)

3) the contingency fund was severely underfunded at only 2.2% of the MAPS 3 budget, since the City readily admits that these types of long term projects average 8% and the original MAPS went at least 47.75% over what voters were told (not factoring in the $100MM mol for the Arena upgrades to actually bring it back up to NBA standards) That means the contingency fund should have been budgeted with $62 to $168 million from the beginning.

So again, good to see that they are putting it into the contingency fund and studying a cheaper alternative to solve the substation problem.

Does anyone know what time tonight they will replay this meeting?

[Urban Pioneer]

Does anyone know what time tonight they will replay this meeting?

I don't know what time on Cox.

About mid-afternoon, it becomes available as part of the minutes posted on the City's website.

[Larry OKC]

Urban: thanks, I can't always get the video to play from the City site so depend on the rebroadcast or Doug's excellent excerpts when I miss it "live". Turned it to Cox and there is some sort of satisfaction survey results presentation going on, so don't know if it is the tail end of the "live" meeting, a replay of the Council meeting or another meeting. Hit record just in case. LOL

[mcca7596]

Anyone know why the revenue and expenditure report wasn't presented at the last MAPS 3 committee meeting?

I watched the meeting and I can't remember if it was Eric Wenger or Jim Couch, but they said it is just taking longer to prepare a report because it is the end of the fiscal year.

[BDK]

Well, this is somewhat redeeming. Hopefully they come up with a unique concept to disguise the sub-station.

[mcca7596]

I am for the decision that was made and am glad for it. However, all the literature has said $280 million for a convention center. A certain issue that they anticipated did not come up; it does seem hard to justify taking it out rather than using it elsewhere within the cc expenses.

It would be like the streetcar subcommittee fortuitously finding out that they already had a hub ready. Hypothetically, should that $10 million be moved to a contingency fund as well?

I'm just afraid there may be more citizen backlash than we think (even with the convention center being the least popular project).

[Just the facts]

I am for the decision that was made and am glad for it. However, all the literature has said $280 million for a convention center. A certain issue that they anticipated did not come up; it does seem hard to justify taking it out rather than using it elsewhere within the cc expenses.

It would be like the streetcar subcommittee fortuitously finding out that they already had a hub ready. Hypothetically, should that $10 million be moved to a contingency fund as well?

I'm just afraid there may be more citizen backlash than we think (even with the convention center being the least popular project).

If the Streetcar group didn't do a hub study (or found one in the trunk of a junked car in rural Arkansas next to the Rose Law Firm billing documents) then Yes, the streetcar budget would be reduced by $10 million. That is a no-brainer - just like this vote was. The Mayor was correct all along, the $280 million was the budget ONLY IF the east park location was choosen. The CC sub-committee picked a different location so they don't get the money. Instead, the money will be used for its original purpose - the power substation. Since it doesn't have to be moved to make way for the CC then a less expensive alternative can be found.

[Larry OKC]

mcca7596: valid points but remember that by putting it into the contingency fund it is still available for the C.C. if that need presents itself (and precluding that it hasn't been earmarked/spent already for something else). By getting the C.C. moved up towards the front of the yimeline, they have increased their odds that they will be able to still access those dollars.

UPDATE: for those interested, the replay is at 6:30 tonight(Tues) on Cox. They also replay it on Sundays noonish but not sure of the exact time

[MustangGT]

I'm just afraid there may be more citizen backlash than we think (even with the convention center being the least popular project).

This would probably be a safe bet.

[BoulderSooner]

I am for the decision that was made and am glad for it. However, all the literature has said $280 million for a convention center. A certain issue that they anticipated did not come up; it does seem hard to justify taking it out rather than using it elsewhere within the cc expenses.

It would be like the streetcar subcommittee fortuitously finding out that they already had a hub ready. Hypothetically, should that $10 million be moved to a contingency fund as well?

I'm just afraid there may be more citizen backlash than we think (even with the convention center being the least popular project).

this exact thing was discussed at the last street car meeting .. right now the budget is 10mil (actually 9.7 or so because of timeline deflation) marked for transit hub and connections .. there is some thought that some of this money might go toward the adventure line .. or another transit line to the airport

[betts]

Personally, I think spending any money to disguise the substation is a waste of money and a waste of a block along the park. How wonderful to have some fake castle disguising the substation on one side of the park and the entrance to the loading docks for the convention center on another. That's my idea of aesthetics, for sure. Find out what the real costs for moving the substation are, find another block to trade OG&E that's owned by the city and make a deal.

[Rover]

This whole action is just kicking the can down the road.....let's deal with it later when we see what is most politically expedient or when people are looking the other way. Meanwhile, the council will continue to get more and more splintered IMHO.

[RodH]

I watched the discussion regarding what to do with the $30 million. I was suprised that no one mentioned that the proposed location for the convention center may mean that construction costs will be higher because of the need to maintain the Harvey Spine as a pedestrian path. Preserving the pedestrian pathway is IMO more important to the future park than removing or hiding the substation. I would have left the money in the cc budget.

[Rover]

It is in a contingency budget right? That means they can still spend it on any project they want any way they want. If the cc site costs more than the original budget, then I guess it could be used as a contingency fund to cover the difference, right? Again, this doesn't sound like any decision was made...just more waffling.

[Larry OKC]

Agree Rover, that is all it is.

[RodH]

I got the impression that those who voted to put the money in the contingency fund saw an opportunity to use it for something other than the convention center. I don't think that they had the same uses in mind. It will be very interesting when someone tries to claim some of it. According to the proposed plans the convention center could be 100,000 square feet smaller without the $30 million than was recommended by the study that they used to justify the need for a new convention center.

[Urban Pioneer]

It is in a contingency budget right? That means they can still spend it on any project they want any way they want. If the cc site costs more than the original budget, then I guess it could be used as a contingency fund to cover the difference, right? Again, this doesn't sound like any decision was made...just more waffling.

They could spend it on anything. Therefore, it is an important vote. The fact that it wasn't simply handed over to the establishment's beloved Convention Center means that there will probably be a bigger fight further down the road.

Who knows for sure that it is the CC to first have budgetary problems? It opens it up for a later debate with many unknowns.

[Just the facts]

They could spend it on anything.

I wonder if an extra $30 million (less cosmetic make-over of substation) could get the streetcar into more residential areas.

[MustangGT]

They just "kicked the can down the road". A much bigger fight is coming, wait and see.

[dmoor82]

After watching the cc meeting,I think this isssue has just begun to spin it's ugly head.On a side note,after hearing Ed Shadid speak He sounds like a very intelligent person and I'm glad He's on the cc.