Trader Joe's

[Spartan]

IIRC that was a line from Harry Sonneborn in a book about their expansion a long, long time ago.

Ah recycled beats

[Pete]

I've seen that McDonald's quote many times and it seems to be largely misunderstood.

I'm sure what they mean is that well-located real estate is everything to their operation, not that they make money by investing in real estate they own.

Since they virtually never sell a property -- think about how many times they tear down and completely rebuild on the same spot -- they only make money from the restaurants that depend on those good locations.

They are not real estate investors in the classic sense, the one small exception is that corporate may build restaurants and then lease them back to franchisees but I believe that was more back in the early days with Ray Kroc.


And BTW, all fast food places make heavy use of ground leases and build-to-suit arrangements where they don't own the underlying property anyway.

[FritterGirl]

BTW, TJ's generates more sales per square foot than any other grocer -- almost twice that of Whole Foods.

Just shows you how amazing they are because they do this with much lower prices than Whole Foods.


I've often thought that if I ever moved back to OKC, that Trader Joe's would be the one retailer I'd miss the most. It's truly one of kind, which is a rare thing these days.

After its first year of operating, the OKC Whole Foods was named store of the year (according to one of the Concierges who works there). I think we have completely blown the perceptions of the folks (WF corporate and real estate researchers) who were originally so hesitant to open one up here. I heard from a cashier not too long ago that their day before Thanksgiving (or perhaps two days prior) was their biggest sales date since the store opened. To say these alternative options don't do well in OKC is malarkey. We are a market HUNGRY for options outside of the WalMart/Homeland spectrum, and have proven over and again that we'll spend money when those options are available.

I've always seen Oklahoma City as a "reverse market" of sorts. Our demographics on paper might not add up to fit the desired real estate profile, but our CONSUMERS know what they want and they are loyal to the core. They also don't mind driving some significant distance to get what they want, which is antethema to the rooftops theory that most major realty research firms count on for their geographic profiling. Hopefully, those looking to expand our retail horizons here - including Trader Joes - will look to the success of Whole Foods and see that "yes, Virginia, OKC can sustain this type of store front." I, for one, am keeping my fingers crossed.

[Pete]

^

Yes, I've heard many times that that Whole Foods has far surpassed projections and that they deeply regret not having built a larger store at that location. Yet, if not for a ridiculous incentive deal by Aubrey McClendon, they would not have even been in this market at this point.

That neighboring Anthroplogie is out-pacing the one in Utica Square as well; which is amazing given it's stand-alone location.

I've said all along that Trader Joe's would be more popular in OKC than Whole Foods and I'll stick by the prediction knowing that particular WF is blowing out their numbers.

And I bet the same would be true for Costco. Also, the Sprouts/Sunflower stores seem to be killing it as well.


OKC is *hungry* for grocery and retail options, that's for sure.

[onthestrip]

After its first year of operating, the OKC Whole Foods was named store of the year (according to one of the Concierges who works there). I think we have completely blown the perceptions of the folks (WF corporate and real estate researchers) who were originally so hesitant to open one up here. I heard from a cashier not too long ago that their day before Thanksgiving (or perhaps two days prior) was their biggest sales date since the store opened. To say these alternative options don't do well in OKC is malarkey. We are a market HUNGRY for options outside of the WalMart/Homeland spectrum, and have proven over and again that we'll spend money when those options are available.

I've always seen Oklahoma City as a "reverse market" of sorts. Our demographics on paper might not add up to fit the desired real estate profile, but our CONSUMERS know what they want and they are loyal to the core. They also don't mind driving some significant distance to get what they want, which is antethema to the rooftops theory that most major realty research firms count on for their geographic profiling. Hopefully, those looking to expand our retail horizons here - including Trader Joes - will look to the success of Whole Foods and see that "yes, Virginia, OKC can sustain this type of store front." I, for one, am keeping my fingers crossed.

Yes, Ive heard from knowledgeable people as well that Whole Foods is doing very good business. This seems to be the trend when new to OKC retailers open up their first store, that it exceeds all expectations.

[bchris02]

^

Yes, I've heard many times that that Whole Foods has far surpassed projections and that they deeply regret not having built a larger store at that location. Yet, if not for a ridiculous incentive deal by Aubrey McClendon, they would not have even been in this market at this point.

That neighboring Anthroplogie is out-pacing the one in Utica Square as well; which is amazing given it's stand-alone location.

I've said all along that Trader Joe's would be more popular in OKC than Whole Foods and I'll stick by the prediction knowing that particular WF is blowing out their numbers.

And I bet the same would be true for Costco. Also, the Sprouts/Sunflower stores seem to be killing it as well.


OKC is *hungry* for grocery and retail options, that's for sure.

I completely agree. OKC defies formulas typically used by retailers when selecting locations. I have no doubt Trader Joe's, Costco, or even a real full-line grocery chain like Kroger or H-E-B would be a huge hit here. People here are ready for better options. Unfortunately convincing retailers to depart from their proven formula isn't easy without massive incentives so OKC too many times gets the short end of the stick.

[Pete]

Yes, Ive heard from knowledgeable people as well that Whole Foods is doing very good business. This seems to be the trend when new to OKC retailers open up their first store, that it exceeds all expectations.

Yes, I'm not aware of any new retailer coming in and not surpassing their projections, and the new outlet mall as a whole has gone wild.

I know Bass Pro did very well early on but don't know if their numbers have held up over time. Hard to believe they've been open for nine years!

[shawnw]

Is there a factor they're missing in their formulas regarding the OKC market? Our overwhelming car-centricity (historicially)? Our highway capacity? Our sheer willingness to drive vast distances to get what we want, perhaps making the rooftop calculation irrelevant (1,3,5 mi)?

[Pete]

Is there a factor they're missing in their formulas regarding the OKC market? Our overwhelming car-centricity (historicially)? Our highway capacity? Our sheer willingness to drive vast distances to get what we want, perhaps making the rooftop calculation irrelevant (1,3,5 mi)?

Yes, as a commercial real estate broker, you try and sell chains on other aspects, such as low cost of living and disposable income.

There are really three groups that help to sell such attributes:

1. Real estate brokers. There are lots in every city that not only market existing properties for their owners, you call on chains not yet in town and try and talk them into coming. You'd be surprised how often new entrants to the market start in this manner. I brought in several myself.

2. Developers. They seek tenants and buyers for their properties by contacting them directly, especially those that have experience with these types of retailers.

3. The Chamber / Economic Alliance. OKC pays for a full-time position who does nothing but trying and attract retailers that are not already in OKC. Then, they work with others (like the Alliance) to help broker deals, incentives, etc. They also work directly with the two groups above.

[Spartan]

^

Yes, I've heard many times that that Whole Foods has far surpassed projections and that they deeply regret not having built a larger store at that location. Yet, if not for a ridiculous incentive deal by Aubrey McClendon, they would not have even been in this market at this point.

That neighboring Anthroplogie is out-pacing the one in Utica Square as well; which is amazing given it's stand-alone location.

I've said all along that Trader Joe's would be more popular in OKC than Whole Foods and I'll stick by the prediction knowing that particular WF is blowing out their numbers.

And I bet the same would be true for Costco. Also, the Sprouts/Sunflower stores seem to be killing it as well.


OKC is *hungry* for grocery and retail options, that's for sure.

Pete, do you meet your expectation if TJ's opens up just up Western and WF's business plummets?

Here in Cleveland the WF/TJ's divide is the brand conscious vs. the cost conscious, but I have a sneaking suspicion even the wealthy Nichols Hills locals will be shopping more at TJ's because it will have a Nichols Hills address and because it's trendier.

[onthestrip]

Is there a factor they're missing in their formulas regarding the OKC market? Our overwhelming car-centricity (historicially)? Our highway capacity? Our sheer willingness to drive vast distances to get what we want, perhaps making the rooftop calculation irrelevant (1,3,5 mi)?

Yes, being able to drive to most areas of the metro in 15-20 minutes and high disposable income due to cost of living are usually the two biggest things you have to sell to a retailer.

[Pete]

Pete, do you meet your expectation if TJ's opens up just up Western and WF's business plummets?

Here in Cleveland the WF/TJ's divide is the brand conscious vs. the cost conscious, but I have a sneaking suspicion even the wealthy Nichols Hills locals will be shopping more at TJ's because it will have a Nichols Hills address and because it's trendier.

No, I would expect WF's to continue to thrive and that TJ's would be crazy successful as well.

They are really very different concepts, so much so that I never went into the Whole Foods a mile from me but now patronize the heck out of the TJ's that took over that location, so WF could move a mile down the road into a much bigger space.

I popped into TJ's last night, in fact! And I've only been into the new, monster WF once or twice in several years but keep in mind that there are lots of great grocery options out here and that I lived in OKC I would still love TJ's but probably go to Whole Foods a lot more than I do now.

[tomokc]

Here in Cleveland the WF/TJ's divide is the brand conscious vs. the cost conscious, but I have a sneaking suspicion even the wealthy Nichols Hills locals will be shopping more at TJ's because it will have a Nichols Hills address and because it's trendier.

I'd shop there to support the sales tax base and to avoid crossing 63rd Street (my wife's car was crunched at 63rd & Grand last fall).

[Rover]

Pete, do you meet your expectation if TJ's opens up just up Western and WF's business plummets?

Here in Cleveland the WF/TJ's divide is the brand conscious vs. the cost conscious, but I have a sneaking suspicion even the wealthy Nichols Hills locals will be shopping more at TJ's because it will have a Nichols Hills address and because it's trendier.

I suspect Sprouts at 63rd and May would take the biggest hit.

[bchris02]

I suspect Sprouts at 63rd and May would take the biggest hit.

I am not sure. Every time I go to that store it's so packed its difficult to get in and out of the parking lot and there are long waits at the cash registers. I love the store but dread it at the same time because of that. OKC could surely support more Sprout's locations.

[zookeeper]

I am not sure. Every time I go to that store it's so packed its difficult to get in and out of the parking lot and there are long waits at the cash registers. I love the store but dread it at the same time because of that. OKC could surely support more Sprout's locations.

Ditto. They've had crazy success here with the 63rd and May location. Of course, that's an incredible location for a store like that. I've heard Edmond's store is doing well too.

[bombermwc]

Definitely could support more of them. The Norman one is great too...and larger. I wish we had more Sprouts out there. It has a lot of the same things as Whole Foods, but without them being quite as high.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Ditto. They've had crazy success here with the 63rd and May location. Of course, that's an incredible location for a store like that. I've heard Edmond's store is doing well too.

I find the one in Edmond to have parking issues. A small lot and always busy. I wish they would have put it in a place with more parking. Edmond Marketplace would have been a good location.

[warreng88]

I live at 21st and May and would love to see Sprout's replace Eley's Foods on NW 30th and May. I know it is too close to its current location, but I would like to see something better go in. I would like to see the whole shopping center redeveloped but I know the buildings are owned by seperate people.

[Plutonic Panda]

I find the one in Edmond to have parking issues. A small lot and always busy. I wish they would have put it in a place with more parking. Edmond Marketplace would have been a good location.

I've never really seen any parking issues. I actually kind of wish parking requirements were done away with and some very popular businesses had their lots 100% full so people can experience what big cities are truly like lol. . . But yeah, I've never once seen that lot full; although I know you can't park right at the front sometimes.

[Mississippi Blues]

I've never really seen any parking issues. I actually kind of wish parking requirements were done away with and some very popular businesses had their lots 100% full so people can experience what big cities are truly like lol. . . But yeah, I've never once seen that lot full; although I know you can't park right at the front sometimes.

That's what "parking issues" amounts to around these parts. Not being able to pull up to the front & park. I see people pass up parking spaces because they're more in the middle or back than in the front & they'll continue to drive around looking for a spot up front & then they have the nerve to complain about there being no parking….

I'm not saying that's what FighttheGoodFight is saying, but just throwing in my $0.02 since you brought it up, Pluton.

[FighttheGoodFight]

That's what "parking issues" amounts to around these parts. Not being able to pull up to the front & park. I see people pass up parking spaces because they're more in the middle or back than in the front & they'll continue to drive around looking for a spot up front & then they have the nerve to complain about there being no parking….

I'm not saying that's what FighttheGoodFight is saying, but just throwing in my $0.02 since you brought it up, Pluton.

The three or four times I went I have to park over by Sherry's Drug store and walk over. Maybe it was the hours I went. This was all in the first six months it was open.

The one in Norman suffered the same fate as I usually parked across the street in the CiCi's parking lot and walked over. Very busy location. I think the Norman store benefits from having Cellar Liquor store next door as well.

I am a person who takes the first available spot (my wife hates it). I don't like to drive around for ever parking lot stalking.

[jerrywall]

It must be timing. I shop there weekly and that's one thing I like. Even the day before Christmas I was able to pull in and park right up front. I may just be very lucky.

[Mississippi Blues]

I am a person who takes the first available spot (my wife hates it). I don't like to drive around for ever parking lot stalking.

I'm the same way. It's usually, overall, much faster to get the first spot you find rather than driving around searching for the closest.

[Plutonic Panda]

That's what "parking issues" amounts to around these parts. Not being able to pull up to the front & park. I see people pass up parking spaces because they're more in the middle or back than in the front & they'll continue to drive around looking for a spot up front & then they have the nerve to complain about there being no parking….

I'm not saying that's what FighttheGoodFight is saying, but just throwing in my $0.02 since you brought it up, Pluton.

yuup