Streetcar

[jedicurt]

I hear this a lot.

1. Over 95% of citizens will never use SC.

2. 100% will use roads in one way or another

3. Downtown still has streets this was laid over them

4. SC routes cannot be changed

5. Luxury mini buses would have been way more cost effective and been able to change routes to adapt faster to changing dynamics of downtown

6. SCs were here before and fell out of favor

8. Its not about making money its about best use of dollars. Buses could have covered this easily for 3% or less of the cost. That 97% of $140,000,000 is now not able to be used on other downtown projects. Imagine the Aquarium we could build for that money. Or other items listed in MAPS 4. Thats the point, SC is an unneeded expense when other/better/cheaper methods existed.

So a way to look at is the SC kept other important projects from getting funded.

i firmly agree that with the current set up of the street car that 1, 2, and 4 are very much facts... and the only one we can hope to change really is number 1, and that is by making it more useful than it is now..

[OKC Guy]

Remove the fares. Promote it as free and convenient transportation.

The demographic we need to capture is persons and groups calling Lyfts and Ubers. Go from Midtown to Bricktown between 7pm and 2am on Fri-Sat and you will see thousands of 21-40 yr olds jumping in and out of cars going from place to place. These are your riders who are patronizing hot establishments.

I have many friends in this demographic who have never ridden the streetcar or even know the route. This needs to change before it is too late.

Make it free and promote it to the people who are already patronizing businesses along the route, period.

I might be wrong but they can’t make it free if they charge for buses? Otherwise some Fed law is violated I think where the city is showing favoritism to SCs and penalizing bus riders. Something like that?

I do agree though it should be free and so too should be buses. I wonder how much revenue they make from bus fares? If we could make both free then use would go up.

[BoulderSooner]

I might be wrong but they can’t make it free if they charge for buses? Otherwise some Fed law is violated I think where the city is showing favoritism to SCs and penalizing bus riders. Something like that?

I do agree though it should be free and so too should be buses. I wonder how much revenue they make from bus fares? If we could make both free then use would go up.

that is a myth

[Rover]

I'd be all for this, even though the cost is low enough, and they don't really seem to enforce the ticketing, that it might as well be free now. I sort of figured the price is there to deter camping. I like that Edmond's busing is free (although there's been noise about that changing).

I wonder how much they would get if they made the fare a voluntary fee with suggested amounts. They could put secure collection boxes in each and have online giving.

[Teo9969]

I wonder how much they would get if they made the fare a voluntary fee with suggested amounts. They could put secure collection boxes in each and have online giving.

This is a great idea. Also, you can still do a ticket system where you must show a ticket for when you boarded. If the ticket is over a certain amount of time, you would be asked to get off the tram. This could be used if there's a concern for campers, otherwise, not super necessary.

[OKC Guy]

that is a myth

If true then I would be in favor of making both SC and buses free to increase ridership until such time its overflowing routinely and only then adding a small fee.

I think there was some discussion earlier in this thread that due to homeless could possibly camp out on SCs is why there is a fee? If true thats a whole other topic to figure out. Otherwise I am for both being free for a few years at least.

[Anonymous.]

Just some quick cost math.

Uber/Lyft from one end of route to the other is about $6-7 for a 4 person car without surge upcharge. That car picks you up at your exact location and you can see when it is arriving, one person has to click their phone like 4 times to accomplish this.

Same 4 people taking the streetcar is going to cost $4 total and you have to traverse to the nearest stop, and virtually have no idea when it is arriving (because we don't have GPS tracking for some sad reason). Also you have to either have everyone figure out how to buy a pass through the app or use the kiosk. Or just have one person buy multiple passes. Again, just an inconvenience that isn't worth the trouble.


We need to change the appeal of the streetcar psychologically. Promote the streetcar as a device that is to help people easily move about to the places they are already ordering cabs for. People should view the streetcar as a convenience item that is provided to them as a means to accomplish what they are already doing.

[Plutonic Panda]

Just some quick cost math.

Uber/Lyft from one end of route to the other is about $6-7 for a 4 person car without surge upcharge. That car picks you up at your exact location and you can see when it is arriving, one person has to click their phone like 4 times to accomplish this.

Time is also a factor.

[BDK]

For me, there are two problems:

1. There are too many stops. Shouldn't the purpose of the streetcar be to move people quickly between distances that would otherwise be a long, far walk? Right now, I can walk anywhere downtown as fast as the streetcar can get there because of all the stops. Maybe signal priority will fix this. We'll see.

2. People parked on the tracks. Last time I rode the streetcar, I was an hour late for lunch because of two cars parked on the tracks. I'm not riding again until this is corrected or at least they start letting people off stalled cars.

Until these issues are fixed, I won't even ride for free.

[djohn]

...they found more riders? (sorry, not good with attachments)

[djohn]

For me, there are two problems:
2. People parked on the tracks. Last time I rode the streetcar, I was an hour late for lunch because of two cars parked on the tracks. I'm not riding again until this is corrected or at least they start letting people off stalled cars.

Until these issues are fixed, I won't even ride for free.

They won't let you off if it is stopped? That REALLY needs to change

[BoulderSooner]

They won't let you off if it is stopped? That REALLY needs to change

they absolutly will

[OKC Guy]

...they found more riders? (sorry, not good with attachments)

No. Go back and look at my first reply for Aug numbers. I pointed out 2 errors in the chart (don’t they have anyone to proofread lol):

July on bottom should say Aug

Aug data is not complete its only thru 29th

I do wonder if they have any idea the riders if they can’t get basic info correct. We spent $140m yet are using kindergarten data compilers. Bad look for city to take a very polarizing expense and fail on data.

[Anonymous.]

Just in case anyone is trying to do to the new park this weekend. Having your parking receipt for all city-owned garages will work as a 4-person streetcar pass this weekend.

[dankrutka]

I just saw one of the streetcars out of service at the Santa Fe hub stop where they brought in another streetcar to try to tow it away. I’m curious what would cause the streetcar to need to be towed.

[Timshel]

(Unfortunately) a poor performance for the streetcar on a very big opportunity to shine. Got to the law school stop - board said a car was 2 minutes away. Waited 20 minutes and still not here. Half of our group (who is very pro-urban okc) has been skeptical of the streetcar since the. beginning and I was hoping this would prove them wrong - but unfortunately a disappointing performance on a night the streetcar could have had loads of great exposure.

[KayneMo]

Fortunately for me, a group of friends and I had a nice experience with the streetcar this evening. Got on at N Hudson at 6 pm and the arrival time was accurate. Got off at Century Center and walked to Scissortail Park for the concerts. Then, we got back on at Scissortail Park at 11 pm and arrival time was again accurate. We had a great time.

[kukblue1]

Are they checking fares in any way? Haven't rode it in months

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

I haven't been checked the couple of times I've been on, but I was ready, having used the Token App

[ShadowStrings]

50/50 for me.

[soonerguru]

I rode it twice Friday night and it was jammed to the rafters. Both times the arrival times were completely accurate.

[HOT ROD]

I just saw one of the streetcars out of service at the Santa Fe hub stop where they brought in another streetcar to try to tow it away. I’m curious what would cause the streetcar to need to be towed.

No power. Brake issue. Panto-graph issue. Could be a number of things and much more common than you think/realize. That's why we have 7.

[Timshel]

Glad to hear others had better luck than I this weekend. Hopefully remaining timing issues can continue to get smoothed out.

I would be curious to know where the choke points still are with the routes. For example, on Friday we were trying to get on at essentially the first stop after leaving the core of midtown. I could easily see midtown being an area where unexpected delays are common due to the amount of activity there is in the core of midtown during peak times. If true - having this information will help with planning when to rely on/not rely on the arrival estimates.

Quite the week in OKC though. As I was joking earlier today, between the park opening, Nick Offerman last night, Iron & Wine tonight, and Old Crow Medicine Show later this week we've finally reached "There is too much to do in OKC" status.

[Pete]

[bucktalk]

Some may think these numbers aren't so impressive. But if you consider how people in the streetcar route move about prior to the streetcar system then these numbers might be more impressive. I fully believe if the streetcars can be more accurate on arrival times and once conventions start arriving on completion of the convention center we will see riders increase substantially. Time will tell.....