Streetcar

[shane453]

Why? For the same reason you might not want to suck up 10-20 minutes of your lunch break waiting on the streetcar. Or standing out in the cold at night for ten minutes after dinner in Bricktown when you could drive to the Performing Arts Center in 4 or five minutes.

To support the mass transit system in OKC. The one you all voted for and can't wait to start using.. Oh, unless your child has to wait, or its cold, or wet, or whatever other excuse you want to use that can be applied to *everyone* who could potentially ride the streetcar, or bus.

You are being unproductive.

People will be able to time when they go outside to wait for the streetcar. Because they are fixed rail and maybe even will have traffic signal priority, it will be easy to predict when the streetcar will arrive, within the minute. They often have online applications for mobile phones, and digital boards at the stop, that show when the next streetcar will arrive.

Driving from one parking spot to another in downtown means finding and paying for a new one, making the streetcar a viable alternative.

The truth is that people WILL ride it. Even Little Rock Arkansas has exceeded its own expectations for ridership on its streetcar line.

No sense in being bitter. The vote has passed. Streetcar is happening. Be productive now, stop fighting, and embrace the idea that downtown Oklahoma City will continue to change and adapt to fully utilize the streetcar system.

[fuzzytoad]

You are being unproductive.

People will be able to time when they go outside to wait for the streetcar. Because they are fixed rail and maybe even will have traffic signal priority, it will be easy to predict when the streetcar will arrive, within the minute. They often have online applications for mobile phones, and digital boards at the stop, that show when the next streetcar will arrive.

Driving from one parking spot to another in downtown means finding and paying for a new one, making the streetcar a viable alternative.

The truth is that people WILL ride it. Even Little Rock Arkansas has exceeded its own expectations for ridership on its streetcar line.

No sense in being bitter. The vote has passed. Streetcar is happening. Be productive now, stop fighting, and embrace the idea that downtown Oklahoma City will continue to change and adapt to fully utilize the streetcar system.

Umm, I think you're griping out the wrong person.

I'm not the one suggesting that students won't ride it because it's faster for parents to ignore the streetcar and dropoff/pickup right at the school.

[warreng88]

Here's something really cool to think about.

As Urban points out, the rail hub is almost certainly going to be located on the north-south Santa Fe line. Obviously, the terminal area of the hub for commuter rail, Amtrak, High-Speed rail will be located above-grade on the elevated rail area. But what about the streetcar and other possible future light rail?

The unusual nature of having an elevated commuter rail terminal actually would allow for the development of an at-grade light rail (streetcar) terminal under the commuter rail terminal. Streetcars would move through the hub by connecting inside an indoor terminal area. Direct connection between the commuter rail terminal above and light rail terminal below would be provided by escalators and elevators (for ADA complaince) leading up and down from the passenger platforms.

A bi-level terminal like this would be functionally very efficient as a rail transit hub and would open up all kinds of possibilities with regard to transit passenger services. If done right, we could end up with one of the best and most unique rail transit hubs in the region.

I went to the Thunder game Wednesday night, parked under the Cox Convention Center and I got a chance to look at the Santa Fe station. I could see them creating dedicated turn lanes coming north on EK Gaylord to Reno and south from Main to Sheridan so they would not have to completely change the layout of the streets north and south EK Gaylord from Sheridan to Reno. They could then take out the median in that area, expand the station and also take over the parking lot north of the station. Or use the lanes closest to the station for the streetcar.

[Kerry]

Why? For the same reason you might not want to suck up 10-20 minutes of your lunch break waiting on the streetcar. Or standing out in the cold at night for ten minutes after dinner in Bricktown when you could drive to the Performing Arts Center in 4 or five minutes.

To support the mass transit system in OKC. The one you all voted for and can't wait to start using.. Oh, unless your child has to wait, or its cold, or wet, or whatever other excuse you want to use that can be applied to *everyone* who could potentially ride the streetcar, or bus.

The difference is I can distinguish between grown adults and 9 year old children. I thought everyone could do that but maybe I just have a gift.

[betts]

Should be able to check streetcar arrival times online or from your cellphone, I would guess. You can do that in other cities. So, no waiting out in the cold unless you want to do so.

[shane453]

Umm, I think you're griping out the wrong person.

I'm not the one suggesting that students won't ride it because it's faster for parents to ignore the streetcar and dropoff/pickup right at the school.

Sarcasm does not always equal wit.

[fuzzytoad]

The difference is I can distinguish between grown adults and 9 year old children. I thought everyone could do that but maybe I just have a gift.

What does the age of the rider have to do with actually riding the Streetcar?

There's absolutely no reason why a child couldn't ride the streetcar despite the lame excuses you're using.

There's even been multiple reasons posted explaining why your child wouldn't have to wait as long as you suggest.

If everyone takes on your attitude about using the streetcar, or any mass transit, this thing is doomed to failure. And the worst part is that it's an attitude you're willing to pass on to future generations by poor example.

[fuzzytoad]

Sarcasm does not always equal wit.

??? wtf are you talking about?

[Kerry]

What does the age of the rider have to do with actually riding the Streetcar?

There's absolutely no reason why a child couldn't ride the streetcar despite the lame excuses you're using.

There's even been multiple reasons posted explaining why your child wouldn't have to wait as long as you suggest.

If everyone takes on your attitude about using the streetcar, or any mass transit, this thing is doomed to failure. And the worst part is that it's an attitude you're willing to pass on to future generations by poor example.

Wait a minute - are you suggesting people should let their elementary school children ride the street car unsupervised? Do you leave your young children in the car with the engine running while you go into the mall?

[warreng88]

[rcjunkie]

Wait a minute - are you suggesting people should let their elementary school children ride the street car unsupervised? Do you leave your young children in the car with the engine running while you go into the mall?

Not picking sides, but how is letting your elementary age children ride a street car any different than letting them ride a school bus. Do you think the bus drivers are safer and more protective than a street car driver.

[soonerguru]

Holy Jeebus can we quit the hairsplitting on this thread? I think it's clear that Kerry and other parents wouldn't feel comfortable letting their elementary school kids riding the street car by themselves. Other parents might not have a problem with it.

This isn't really worth arguing about, considering it will be a niche usage statistic anyway.

For what it's worth, it would be nice if there is a new school that it be located near a street car stop. Next.

[kevinpate]

The difference is I can distinguish between grown adults and 9 year old children. ...

Easy peasey ... 9 year olds make more sense & use fewer words doing so.

[rcjunkie]

I guess were entitled to our opinions, we just can't share them, especially if you don't agree with something someone else has posted.

[Spartan]

I don't think it's so much the idea of kids riding the rails home from school that bothers me, because let's face it, tons of little kids walk long distances alone to go home every day. What bothers me is kids going home from school alone, period. Where are the parents of all these kids?

Parents not attending to their own kids in downtown is no different from parents not attending to their own kids out in the suburbs.

[soonerguru]

I don't think it's so much the idea of kids riding the rails home from school that bothers me, because let's face it, tons of little kids walk long distances alone to go home every day. What bothers me is kids going home from school alone, period. Where are the parents of all these kids?

Parents not attending to their own kids in downtown is no different from parents not attending to their own kids out in the suburbs.

Downtown is probably actually safer than the suburbs.

[fuzzytoad]

I don't think it's so much the idea of kids riding the rails home from school that bothers me, because let's face it, tons of little kids walk long distances alone to go home every day. What bothers me is kids going home from school alone, period. Where are the parents of all these kids?

Seriously? you do realize that this isn't 1955, or even the 70's, right?

They're at work. If the kid still has both parents, he's at least got that going for him over most kids in Oklahoma, but they're both at work.

[Spartan]

Downtown is probably actually safer than the suburbs.

No doubt, but I'm just making it clear that skepticism over elementary school students riding the rails home isn't about rail itself..

[jbrown84]

This isn't really worth arguing about, considering it will be a niche usage statistic anyway.

Right. It's all rather moot because we aren't considering the streetcar solely as an alternative to school buses, nor are we considering eliminating school bus routes to the downtown school.

Moving on...

[Urban Pioneer]

I went to the Thunder game Wednesday night, parked under the Cox Convention Center and I got a chance to look at the Santa Fe station. I could see them creating dedicated turn lanes coming north on EK Gaylord to Reno and south from Main to Sheridan so they would not have to completely change the layout of the streets north and south EK Gaylord from Sheridan to Reno. They could then take out the median in that area, expand the station and also take over the parking lot north of the station. Or use the lanes closest to the station for the streetcar.

We are definitely in a street narrowing mentality post the Jeff Speck report. EK Gaylord is definitely on the hit list.

I have seem some streetcar lines in the Czech Republic where they took out a lane of street and planted lush grass with the rails only visible out of the lawn. Pretty cool streetscaping.

[betts]

We are definitely in a street narrowing mentality post the Jeff Speck report. EK Gaylord is definitely on the hit list.

I have seem some streetcar lines in the Czech Republic where they took out a lane of street and planted lush grass with the rails only visible out of the lawn. Pretty cool streetscaping.

I don't know if I would call it lush, but the St. Charles streetcar in New Orleans runs through the grass in the middle of the boulevard. That's what gave me the idea of running our streetcar along the new boulevard, if it fit in with route plans.

[David Pollard]

Here in Amsterdam there has been an ongoing and successful effort for years to slowly wean the city from automobile traffic altogether while giving more space to pedestrians and bicycles.

Granted this approach may not work yet for OKC, but it is definitely a move in the right direction. What will be created is the motivation for the public and commuter to actually use the the new public transportation as it is simply easier in the long run.

Crucial to this however is indeed a well-integrated transportation center. The idea of expanding the Sante Fe station into a greater center, connecting streetcars, commuter rails, high speed rail, and (why not) canal traffic in a multilevel facility is a winning one. Again that is exactly what is happening here in Amsterdam. Busses, trains, streetcars, and yes, even boats use the Amsterdam Central Station.

And why not an Oklahoma City Central Station?!

The cherry on the icing would be to have the new convention center and hotel located directly at this facility. Talk about creating a new center! Goes without saying that larger parking facilities would be conveniently placed at commuter and streetcar locations further away from downtown, where land is cheaper. Lots of dreams, but now is definitely the time for OKC to think big.

I am quite proud of my old home town for taking this route, and am watching closely what develops.

Touche OKC!

[Trailrunner]

Crucial to this however is indeed a well-integrated transportation center. The idea of expanding the Sante Fe station into a greater center, connecting streetcars, commuter rails, high speed rail, and (why not) canal traffic in a multilevel facility is a winning one.

Exactly! An well-designed intermodal hub is critically important. But it's the one essential element that was not technically evaluated in the Fixed Guideway Study. That's about to change though. Oklahoma City has directed ACOG and COTPA to undertake a full-blown intermodal rail transit hub study to determine just what we will need to service our future system.

The passage of MAPS 3 and the funding of the streetcar system was a vital and tremendous step forward to developing that system. With that accomplished, of equal or maybe even greater importance now will be determining the best location and design for the hub. The hub study will begin after the first of the year and it's a very important piece of the puzzle.

Just as it's important for everyone to express their thoughts on the design of the streetcar system, it's also important to begin thinking about the hub and what we would like to see in terms of its design and location, as well as other potential services and amenities that could be associated with it.

We have the enviable opportunity of developing a first class modern streetcar system and intermodal rail transit hub in the coming years and that's something to get really excited about. Touche indeed!

[jbrown84]

A couple questions to ponder:

1) Should the transit hub include city buses despite the nearly brand new central bus station in Midtown?

2) Should the transit hub include space for rental car agencies?

[Spartan]

I think this is where you start running into inefficiencies and duplications of services and facilities with existing and planned separate projects.