Widgets Magazine
Page 53 of 383 FirstFirst ... 34849505152535455565758103153 ... LastLast
Results 1,301 to 1,325 of 9575

Thread: Streetcar

  1. #1301

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Plaza. It has retail, hospital, and residential components and massive TOD potential. I can see 10th St between St. Anthony and Broadway lines with midrise housing (3 to 5 stories).

  2. #1302

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    I would say the Paseo. It gives more access to Edgemere and almost gets you to Crown Heights. It's already a more attractive destination for potential riders and would help put people in the streetcars right away. In addition, it would have to run past the renewal areas on 23rd. So, you'd get a combination of established and gentrifiable housing, a desirable destination with existing attractions for people and yet you traverse an area that has a lot of potential for new commercial development.

    While I think eventually the streetcar should connect with the health sciences center, I don't think it's important enough for the first segment. We would definitely get people riding who work at the Health Sciences Center and want to lunch downtown or in Bricktown. Ultimately it might encourage people who work at the Health Sciences Center to rent or purchase housing in Bricktown or Deep Deuce, atlhough some do already. But, I don't think we have enough data to show that people seeking medical care would need to access the Health Sciences Center via a streetcar centered in downtown, and I don't think we can justify that much money so I can go to Bricktown for lunch.

  3. #1303

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Right now I think the urban vacuum in between the downtown core and the health sciences center, and the lack of anything dense for half of that journey, that it should be done as a Phase 2. I would imagine streetcar will be a lot easier to find funding for after the first phase.

    View Post
    For debate... If extra money were to be had, or costs came in under budget....

    Paseo or Plaza? What has more promise? What area needs a connection in a first phase if this were possible? Also, how important is a stop near Film Row?

    Just following up on Spartan's romantic feelings for our fledgling cultural districts. Lol

    All are deserving. But who needs it the most if it's possible?
    I don't think Film Row is essential but at this point it has to be lumped with the Arts District until Film Row shows development for any other purpose. If there is a line that curves along Walker and Sheridan, that would have decent proximity to serve most of Film Row.

    Paseo or Plaza is a toss-up. I would imagine eventually both have to be served, but Plaza is somewhat closer to downtown, being just across Classen. Paseo goes up to 30th where it gets good.

  4. #1304
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,633
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    It seems to me that we have to decide whether the train is for getting people around downtown conveniently, or to get people into downtown for work. There isn't enough residential downtown to justify the train to get people OUT to other neighborhoods.

  5. #1305

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    The way I look at it is that it is a circulation system for downtown that will ultimately become a distribution and collection system for the future intermodal hub and commuter rail stops on the N/S axis.

    However, it can be argued that it could become an inner city system like we used to have. Plaza is definitely far away from the commuter rail cooridoor. But even from 23rd to 63rd the commuter rail is on the east side of Broadway Ext. So a parallel interior streetcar cooridoor is warranted for those neighborhoods.

  6. #1306

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    I picture Film Row feeding off a future line with two-way track on West Broadway.

    As far as choosing the Paseo or the Plaza as an extension... i'd want to know what alignment was being used first.

    Original streetcar system had I line that traveled north along Blackwelder from Linwood to the Plaza district (with plans to go to 23rd along Carey Place that were never fully realized).

    If we pretend that we built the system Ive posted on here we could branch off along NW 10th Street then up Indiana to OKC University. 10th has enormous potential on the north (vacant) side... I picture low to mid-rise mixed use. It then connects the Plaza and OCU. It also is very close to significant existing residential. This would be a 3 mile extension... total.

    To go to the Paseo we would have two options.... extend the line up Robinson to about 28th-30th then west to the Paseo. This also connects a lot of residental the Paseo and part of 23rd Street..... 3.5 mile extension.

    Or... you extend up Classen and branch on 30th to the Paseo.... this route connects residential but has much more commercial area to develop. This would be less than 3 miles of an extension.... I'd vote for this one.

    Basically... why choose? We can get both for less than the starter system.

    If we use the first 6 miles wisely... future extensions of less or equal length could have a potentially massive positive impact... I'm sure at this point in our future residents would have seen the importance and impact of the MAPS 3 streetcar and be much more likely to embrace expansion.

  7. #1307
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,633
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    I could be wrong, but most light rail is to get commuters from the suburbs to the inner city where they work to reduce the cars on the city streets and freeways. It is not developed as an alternative to inner city buses or subways. Putting light rail in isn't about real estate development, but rather air quality, commuter times, street and hwy safety, keeping cars out of downtown, etc. Using that logic, it seems the initial rail system should be to move people to places they will want to go once they come into the downtown area. Then the feeder lines from Edmond, Norman, Dell/Midwest City, Yukon/Mustang will bring them in and connect up all the downtown locations. We already have the trolley system for those already downtown (though severely flawed) and we know how that has worked out.

  8. #1308

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    We're talking about streetcars here... light rail is a little different altogether.

  9. #1309

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    For those that interested, and have the time, check out the streetcar system in Oslo, Norway. They have an extensive downtown circulator with branches that go out to the city at large (kind of like spokes on a wheel). I started mapping it in Google Earth but it has many more miles of track than I was expecting so it is taking a while.

  10. #1310

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Pioneer View Post
    Sure. I think it would be kind of cool to do an OKC Talk night for bloggers who regularly follow this. You guys are some of the most informed people in the community. It would make some sense to reach out and debate/solicit ideas socially. Let me know if you like this idea.
    Sounds like a blast.

  11. #1311

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Platemaker, I don't think downtown can be served with just a Broadway/Robinson transit mall. I think you have to pair it with something else, and I think like it or not, we need to focus the 6 miles on something more comprehensive that serves more of downtown. There is not the kind of density needed to start supporting streetcar to larger portions of the city overall. You have to start by transforming one square mile into a streetcar district. Once you've done that, move on to more ambitious goals.

    It's also very important that the first phase is a complete system on its own, because it will have to stand alone for the time being until more funding is found. Initial success will also be pivotal to expanding the system, winning over the public, gaining public trust, and gaining confidence from funding sources at the local, state, and federal level--we have to rely on other funding sources for expansion, period. They will be judging based on the first phase, so it is important that the first phase not be incomplete and that it take people everywhere they could want to go within downtown, first. It must be whole; the first phase can not be an incomplete downtown system matched with an incomplete north side system because that will fail.

    It might also be easier if we went back to the basics, with the clear understanding that there should be a E/W spine and a N/S spine. Robinson-Broadway is clearly our N/S spine, and that's a winner, we all agree on that--but we can't leave out the E/W spine, and it needs to be something that can thread together the mixed-use developments forming vibrant areas in Bricktown, Deep Deuce, and the Arts District. Sheridan works for that, but you can only go one way down Sheridan due to some underground utilities on one side. Reno goes nowhere near Deep Deuce, so that's not a good pair imo but the closest potential pair in Deep Deuce is NE 2nd Street. Would Sheridan-2nd/Kerr be a good couplet for an E/W spine?

  12. #1312

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    I just feel like a Broadway/Sheridan spine is already walkable to the already walkable districts in our already compact downtown... If we try connecting every 'district' we've created we are just making a tourist trolley going in circles. I think we have to open the streetcar to 'regular' residents and not just those that can afford to live downtown.

  13. #1313

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Platemaker View Post
    I just feel like a Broadway/Sheridan spine is already walkable to the already walkable districts in our already compact downtown... If we try connecting every 'district' we've created we are just making a tourist trolley going in circles. I think we have to open the streetcar to 'regular' residents and not just those that can afford to live downtown.
    I'm not sure it will be a tourist trolley unless someone comes along who starts prioritizing the Ballpark, the memorial, bar and the convention center and literally builds a system around that. I think downtown already has a lot of regular residents, and in order for there to be a resurgence in urban living in OKC, it has to first win downtown over.

    The problem with going north is Heritage Hills and Mesta Park aren't very dense. If you dropped someone from an older, eastern city in the middle of those neighborhoods the first impression they'd have is of being in a very nice suburb. I think there is some serious potential for turning 23rd into a transit corridor and doing a few neighborhood loops, such as a Classen/Western couplet and finding a couplet through the Plaza/Gatewood/Classen-Ten-Penn/OCU area (and the Plaza and Western couplets could easily be a self-functioning loop that connects to the entire system as well).

    And I'd say not to forget about the south side of the city. You're going to have to balance the streetcar investment to not leave the southside out or else voters will be put off, and won't think all citizens are being served fairly.

  14. #1314

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    And I'd say not to forget about the south side of the city. You're going to have to balance the streetcar investment to not leave the southside out or else voters will be put off, and won't think all citizens are being served fairly.
    Agreed, Spartan. The Capitol Hill area, as a minimum, needs to be considered in the long range streetcar planning.

  15. #1315

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Capitol Hill needs to be in the medium-range. If you go to Paseo, you better go to Capitol Hill before you go to Plaza as well. I'd say get to Stockyards City and some of the areas in between too--the southside is the densest part of the city, so it shouldn't be too hard to get at least a 40/60 balance of streetcar north and south (excluding areas between Reno and 10th).

  16. #1316

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Capitol Hill needs to be in the medium-range. If you go to Paseo, you better go to Capitol Hill before you go to Plaza as well. I'd say get to Stockyards City and some of the areas in between too--the southside is the densest part of the city, so it shouldn't be too hard to get at least a 40/60 balance of streetcar north and south (excluding areas between Reno and 10th).
    And I think the inner city southside residents are probably more open to using forms of mass transit than those of the north side.

  17. #1317

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Capitol Hill needs to be in the medium-range. If you go to Paseo, you better go to Capitol Hill before you go to Plaza as well. I'd say get to Stockyards City and some of the areas in between too--the southside is the densest part of the city, so it shouldn't be too hard to get at least a 40/60 balance of streetcar north and south (excluding areas between Reno and 10th).
    That's one of the appeals of Robinson as part of the route, IMO: you have direct access to Capitol Hill. And I agree that extensions to both the south and north need to be considered equally when the time comes.

  18. #1318
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,633
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    I think preferences should be given to areas where the local businessmen/developers are already investing to make better. For instance, through Asian district and Paseo vs. Capital Hill where there has been very little private investment, it seems.

  19. #1319

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    For those that interested, and have the time, check out the streetcar system in Oslo, Norway. They have an extensive downtown circulator with branches that go out to the city at large (kind of like spokes on a wheel). I started mapping it in Google Earth but it has many more miles of track than I was expecting so it is taking a while.
    When you are able to assemble something on this, I would be very interested. I don't think that any of us have studier Norway yet. Don't feel obligated, but if you have some pictures and maps, that would be cool.

  20. #1320

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Rover, You should take another look at Capitol Hill, while I would agree some of the businesses aren't very white bread-friendly, the district is increasingly becoming more diverse in its businesses, and there are a few community groups doing a lot of clean-up there. Sometime this week you should go and try the chicken fried steak at the Grill on the Hill, which is popular with the Gazette.

  21. #1321
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,633
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Rover, You should take another look at Capitol Hill, while I would agree some of the businesses aren't very white bread-friendly, the district is increasingly becoming more diverse in its businesses, and there are a few community groups doing a lot of clean-up there. Sometime this week you should go and try the chicken fried steak at the Grill on the Hill, which is popular with the Gazette.
    Just drove through there 2 days ago on my way to a great Mexican food store on 29th as I do occasionally. While I think it is diverse, I just don't see evidence of the area businessmen investing in improving the area as much as I see in the Asian district or Paseo or the Plaza area. The Capital Hill business area has HUGE potential. It has the best view of downtown and now the core to shore park. It has a great legacy. It has a pod of great old buildings that could be a great environment if maintained and improved. And it has an exciting cultural base to create a wonderful special environment. Yet it is poorly maintained and there seems to be no vision or leadership there. In the very least, there doesn't seem to be investment form those with the most to gain who live, work and do business there. If they believed in their own future then maybe the rest of the city would invest in them too. Just my opinion based on observation.

    By the way, I don't think "white bread" friendly is an appropriate description and not very veiled. The reason for the comments I made are based on maintenance and improvement issues, not cultural or racial. I have been going there and in the area for decades to eat, visit and do business. One of my favorite Aunt and Uncle even had a store there at one time. But it is run-down now and has stayed that way. A little investment, even if it is elbow grease, goes a long way.

  22. #1322

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    By the way, I don't think "white bread" friendly is an appropriate description and not very veiled. The reason for the comments I made are based on maintenance and improvement issues, not cultural or racial. I have been going there and in the area for decades to eat, visit and do business. One of my favorite Aunt and Uncle even had a store there at one time. But it is run-down now and has stayed that way. A little investment, even if it is elbow grease, goes a long way.
    Well, I understand if you'd be uncomfortable agreeing to that phrase, but I have no problem. I think that's definitely what is at play, and I definitely admit I think about it in some degree. I make no bones about being really familiar with Capitol Hill, so I don't feel squirmy characterizing it that way. I definitely prefer ethnic restaurants that meet suburban standards of cleanliness, and always shiny new tables, chairs, etc. Some of the businesses just aren't maintained as pristine, which is more along how you'd prefer to put it.

    But people who are more keen on Mexican food than I am might be more willing to experience a real local choice that's more authentic. But it's important for those to coexist with restaurants next door that have the nicer sheen and less authentic food for people looking for that. When it comes to food I'm more keen on like Italian, I have no problem going to a kind of sloppy place in Little Italy or somewhere like that, or with Thai food.

    But I am very big on the Grill on the Hill and a couple of other places in there.

  23. #1323

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    Okay....for a starter system (red) and possible future extensions MAPS4? (green). Connects mostly all of downtown: the CBD, Deep Deuce, Bricktown (via either deep deuce or EK Gaylord), Automobile Alley, and touches the Arts District. With a grand total of 4.59 miles of track. (with .44 miles of two-way track (.22 miles each way)). Uses the loop system which I know have changed my position on and think is the way to go. As long as the loop is only separated by a block or two from each direction.
    You may have to click on it to get a better view.

    The streetcars on the E/W loop would not use the Northbound tracks except to get to Robert S. Kerr from Park Ave. or to get to Dean A. McGee from Robert. S. Kerr. The N/S streetcars would always stay on the N/S tracks. The only common tracks for both loops (spines) would be Broadway between Park Ave. and 3rd St./Dean A. McGee.

    Sample itineraries.

    * Deep Deuce resident at Block 42 wanting to go to a Thunder game at the Ford Ce....OKC Arena. Get on the westbound in Deep Deuce to the Robinson Ave stop.(west on 4th, south on Oklahoma, west on Robert S. Kerr, north on Broadway and west on Dean A. McGee to the Robinson Ave stop.). At the Robison Ave. stop and wait for the southbound at Robinson. Take the Robinson southbound to the Cox Center/OKC Arena stop. (South on Robinson Ave. and then east on Reno to the OKC Arena/Cox Center stop).

    *Devon employee going to Hideaway Pizza in AA for lunch. Board at the Park/Harvey stop and join the eastbound to the Broadway stop. Board the northbound at Park Ave. and Broadway and take north to AA.

    Obviously there are more possibilities, but this seems to cover the most ground with a relatively efficient system.

    I don't like the systems shown that go all the way up and connect neighborhoods right away. We need to get a nucleus in downtown working before we start bringing in people from neighborhoods further away. Once we can move people in downtown efficiently, it will be more attractive to connect more neighborhoods (and people) into the system. With the idea of connecting neighborhoods right away, how are they going to get around in downtown if all the money was spent on track to get them downtown, and not being able to move them around downtown?

  24. #1324

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    skywest

    I approve your route, by far, over anything else I have seen, but still feel it needs to go into Bricktown.

  25. #1325

    Default Re: The Modern Streetcar and Commuter Transit Project in MAPS 3 Progresses

    If you are gonna make it so you have to change trains why not a system like this? The dark blue are only single track but would be expandable to double down the line especially if they get a phase 2 attached to them or a small loop if better. This would cover most of the core area and be easily expandable.




    here is an idea of future expansions including double line down Lincoln. and could even be expanded to the airport if need be ( i would prefer commuter rail at that point though with a stop at the last point of the street car and at the central hub allowing you to get on the street car at two points)

    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...1fdb9&t=h&z=13
    Last edited by stdennis; 01-03-2011 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Link Didnt work

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. OKC mass transit announcement!!
    By metro in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 444
    Last Post: 05-05-2010, 11:56 AM
  2. The Portland Streetcar: A case in point
    By betts in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 12-07-2009, 09:34 AM
  3. MAPS 3 News Compendium
    By Doug Loudenback in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 108
    Last Post: 12-05-2009, 10:55 AM
  4. New info on MAPS 3
    By metro in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 533
    Last Post: 12-02-2009, 10:56 AM
  5. MAPS 3 Press release
    By ChowRunner in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 167
    Last Post: 10-03-2009, 04:58 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO