Streetcar

[shawnw]

Somebody mark this down, the date PluPlan said "ban cars". :-P

[Plutonic Panda]

Haha. It should be well know that I’m not the biggest fan of the streetcar but it’s there and we need to capitalize off of it. It shouldn’t be used as a real estate development tool but rather a true piece of transit that works and induces riders.

Allowing mixed flow with cars increases chances of delays and its better off cars are banned from using streetcar lanes. Parking adjacent to streetcar removed and protected bike lanes put in. A study should be done to determine feasibility of banning cars on certain streets that the street car and conversion of other lanes to bus lanes and widened sidewalks.

[soonermike81]

As far as it being full. It wasn't before the thunder game but was afterwards. No one checking fares and I bet 50% of the people getting on after the game didn't pay. They either need to do away with the fares all together or come up with some sort of scan system at the door.

I haven’t had the other experience you had with a bad driver. But during the handful of times we’ve ridden the streetcar, noticed tons of people who don’t pay. Only once did I see an employee asking for tickets, but even then, he didn’t go through and ask everyone. And one group that he did ask, they said they bought tickets, but he never asked to actually see them. I hope I was just seeing a small sample size that were just outliers. Even had 2 different parties, who seemed new to riding, ask me “its free to ride, right?” I bet they heard that from others who ride and don’t pay. I told them no and gave them pricing. They never got on and proceeded to walk to their destination. Sad.

Just curious for everyone reading this, do y’all notice tons of people who don’t pay? Not sure what the percentage is but can imagine us having this for a long time if people are abusing the system. After some time, I’m sure they won’t be able to afford employees to go through and clean it up, and it will become a dumpy public transportation system.

[shawnw]

Wouldn't judge too harshly. I have an annual pass. I'm sure at least some other regulars have passes. When I get on I just walk on and sit down. To the casual observer I might seem to have not paid. But if challenged I can absolutely produce my annual pass.

[amocore]

Agree,

also, sometimes I use the app to pay so I do not have a ticket in hand or seem not to have bought one at the station.
So I wont worry about it too much.

[kukblue1]

I haven’t had the other experience you had with a bad driver. But during the handful of times we’ve ridden the streetcar, noticed tons of people who don’t pay. Only once did I see an employee asking for tickets, but even then, he didn’t go through and ask everyone. And one group that he did ask, they said they bought tickets, but he never asked to actually see them. I hope I was just seeing a small sample size that were just outliers. Even had 2 different parties, who seemed new to riding, ask me “its free to ride, right?” I bet they heard that from others who ride and don’t pay. I told them no and gave them pricing. They never got on and proceeded to walk to their destination. Sad.

Just curious for everyone reading this, do y’all notice tons of people who don’t pay? Not sure what the percentage is but can imagine us having this for a long time if people are abusing the system. After some time, I’m sure they won’t be able to afford employees to go through and clean it up, and it will become a dumpy public transportation system.

Road it after the Thunder game on Sunday. Maybe 6 people on it when it pulled up to the stop at reno. I would say probably 40 people got on and I can tell you no one had anything on their phones or tickets in their hands. I'll be honest me and my friend didn't pay. I don't think anyone is paying. How hard would it be to hire someone for $10 an hour during busy times to check for fares. How much money are they losing from people not paying? Well losing might not be the right term but you get my point.

[David]

At least one of the times I have taken the streetcar there was someone aboard who came by eventually and validated my ticket.

[Anonymous.]

Approaching a year later and the yellow construction fencing is still ziptied to all the railings of the stops. Whyyyy?!

As for the discussion above, everyone knows I have been a huge cheerleader for removing the fares. There is already hardly anyone paying them, why even have them? Sell the kiosks and put the money toward something useful. If the fare is only existing to keep [homeless] people from day riding, then make it a simple rule that one cannot ride the entire loop consecutively - which I think is already a rule, but this will give an excuse for a conductor to ask someone to leave.

I just had some friends from Dallas in town and they were shocked we had a streetcar. They saw the stops and the kiosks and thought it was an ATM of some sort.

I have ridden the streetcar basically weekly and never have been asked to produce a ticket. I would bet if we saw the numbers of payers versus riders, it would show less than 50% paying easily. I am sure the city does not want to disclose this number.

[Bullbear]

there has been one time I have been asked to produce my ticket. I buy mine through the app so its always there but I don't pull it out other than the one time asked. the person who asked was all in black as "Security" but he did get off at one stop where he was parked and told the conductor have a good day and he would see him next shift. so I guess they are on there sometimes.

[turnpup]

The one time we were asked to show our tickets (and we always use the token transit app so it's on the phone screen), the guy who asked was more of an "ambassador" type than security. In fact, he was super-nice, making various recommendations to the out-of-town people sitting next to us. I was pleased with the hospitality shown.

[Pete]

[kukblue1]

So doesn't look like Concerts and Thunder Games are doing much to help numbers. I figured there be a little up tick. Wed 23th was GNR and Thunder games 25th and 27th

[OKC Guy]

Those numbers are bad. I did some numbers to see what it costs per rider. I used 10 years as my benchmark because around then cars need replaced or major upkeep costs will be needed. I am not adding in day 1 to 10 year labor/ upkeep costs so it should kinda wash out. I used the rider numbers listed above and since Dec/Jan were novelty numbers but Nov is missing it should wash out and can use the 398,337 as a yearly avg.

Cost was roughly $140,000,000 and if we avg 33,195 riders per month that comes to 3,983,400 riders in 10 years. Simple math shows it will cost us $35.15 per rider over the 10 years. Way more than if we had just paid for Uber for all riders for 10 years and not torn up roads and caused the biggest MAPS division of all MAPS projects.

Its possible ridership goes up when OMNI/CC open, if so thats its best calling card. I am not factoring in any business who might have came here using SC as deciding factor. Nor am I factoring in businesses who lost money due to years of construction. Nor am I adding in extra costs added at start up like lights and spare parts.

Its just a simple way to show how much it really costs us per rider to have the SC cover 4.5 miles. Its also non adjustable. And disrupts traffic. But it looks good on brocheres.

[jerrywall]

So doesn't look like Concerts and Thunder Games are doing much to help numbers. I figured there be a little up tick. Wed 23th was GNR and Thunder games 25th and 27th

I would have thought it too. Especially GNR. I know several people who go to concerts who use the SC. I'm curious if the nice weather affected usage.

[LakeEffect]

Way more than if we had just paid for Uber for all riders for 10 years...

Uber isn't the answer, especially based on cost. It's lost $16.2 BILLION in 5 years. It also has led to increasing congestion. Stop it.

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/8/2079393...5-billion-loss

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/8/20...t-traffic-2019

https://jalopnik.com/uber-lost-anoth...-bi-1837077596

[OKC Guy]

Uber isn't the answer, especially based on cost. It's lost $16.2 BILLION in 5 years. It also has led to increasing congestion. Stop it.

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/8/2079393...5-billion-loss

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/8/20...t-traffic-2019

https://jalopnik.com/uber-lost-anoth...-bi-1837077596

I assumed everyone would not take Uber example literally but as an example of how much we taxpayers are paying for each SC ride. And a vast majority of rides are not the 4.5 miles.

I have always contended small micro luxury buses in core would have been perfect combined with had we spent that $140m on systemwide bus system.

[runOKC]

I assumed everyone would not take Uber example literally but as an example of how much we taxpayers are paying for each SC ride. And a vast majority of rides are not the 4.5 miles.

I have always contended small micro luxury buses in core would have been perfect combined with had we spent that $140m on systemwide bus system.

Yeah... we know

[Plutonic Panda]

Uber is a weird deal and surely there is a way to make them profitable. The fact they are contributing to traffic congestion and possibly putting a dent in ridership numbers on transit agencies shows the demand for ridersharing. Seemingly when given a choice people will choose Uber over transit of money allows.

I also wonder how many DUIs were prevented and lives saved from ridersharing companies.

[OKC Guy]

Yeah... we know

This place gets a lot of views and not all “might know” as you claim. So, do you support the massive costs compared to all other forms of transportation?

[Edmond Hausfrau]

Was downtown Friday night for a play and dinner, could see the streetcar from our table. 7pm on, saw 2 streetcars with absolutely no riders. None. On a Friday in the core section along 10th. We didn't stay to see if the third would be empty because it was making me sad.

[kukblue1]

Wonder what numbers will be like for Today Sat 2nd. Decent weather. Thunder game at 4. I rode it to bricktown for lunch then to the game it was a little less than half full. Saw many walking on with paid tickets and then looked confused when no one took the ticket. They didn't seem to know what to do with the tickets. There were 5 in my party. I dare say i only paid for 2. They need to figure out some kind of scan system for when you walk on. Either have to scan your phone or scan your ticket. Or better yet get rid of fares all together.

[SEMIweather]

I'm sure there's probably an answer somewhere in this thread that I've missed, but are the charts Pete's posting the paid ridership numbers, or are they the actual number of people who walked on.

My assumption from following this thread recently is that there are a significant portion of people who are riding without paying, but not sure if that would be included in the charts or not.

[OkiePoke]

I'm sure there's probably an answer somewhere in this thread that I've missed, but are the charts Pete's posting the paid ridership numbers, or are they the actual number of people who walked on.

My assumption from following this thread recently is that there are a significant portion of people who are riding without paying, but not sure if that would be included in the charts or not.

I believe those numbers are counted as people enter/exit the street car. There is a counter above the doors.

[Anonymous.]

Yes it has been clarified those numbers are riders, not payers. As far as I am aware, there has been no released data on collection of fares.

I feel like the quietness on this front may be an early indicator of going fare-free or an unofficial statement of 'just shutup and get on'.

[baralheia]

Wonder what numbers will be like for Today Sat 2nd. Decent weather. Thunder game at 4. I rode it to bricktown for lunch then to the game it was a little less than half full. Saw many walking on with paid tickets and then looked confused when no one took the ticket. They didn't seem to know what to do with the tickets. There were 5 in my party. I dare say i only paid for 2. They need to figure out some kind of scan system for when you walk on. Either have to scan your phone or scan your ticket. Or better yet get rid of fares all together.

For what it's worth, DART and TRE operate in this fashion as well. Pay your fare and board, but nobody checks every ticket. It'll just take a little time for people to get used to, that's all.