Streetcar

[ou48A]

It's simpler than that. They are only interested in building highways and bridges that move cars and trucks from point A to point B. They have no interest in rail transit. If you've ever been to ODOT's headquarters west of the capitol, you know how big the building is. The entire "Rail Division" is located in a tiny office tucked away in one of the corners of the facility. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

It may be a very long row to hoe but the more that you and other likeminded people talk and type about this the more likely we are to see a change in direction.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation IMO should be about building the most cost effective, efficient forms of transportation that best improve our commerce, prosperity, and quality of life.

If the DOT is stone walling efforts to do this^ it’s time we advocate for a change in the departments direction even if it means getting rid of personnel who are not open minded to change. Our prosperity, and quality of life demands it.

[ou48A]

we are so far from "hopeless" ...... this is a great time in our cities history .. and a great time to live in OKC

I agree
We very much have a can do spirit and a spirit of self-determination.

But it appears we face an entrenched government agency resistant to change.
We must find ways to change current DOT thinking.

[betts]

we are so far from "hopeless" ...... this is a great time in our cities history .. and a great time to live in OKC

Agree. Plus, if one considers OKC hopeless, it's time to give up complaining, because there's nothing fixable.

[Spartan]

we are so far from "hopeless" ...... this is a great time in our cities history .. and a great time to live in OKC

I just hope nobody tries to take credit for high oil prices, Hurricane Katrina, and urban pioneers risking their lives in areas to improve them. The city has contributed nothing to this renaissance, and that's a point I'll challenge anybody on.

Norick was a visionary leader. Since then??

[BoulderSooner]

I just hope nobody tries to take credit for high oil prices, Hurricane Katrina, and urban pioneers risking their lives in areas to improve them. The city has contributed nothing to this renaissance, and that's a point I'll challenge anybody on.

Norick was a visionary leader. Since then??

yes getting passing the stadium renovation maps 3 ..getting the thunder the devon tower and p180 (which has been great for the CBD) .... more housing under plans and construction than their existed in down town ..

non of that is anything good

[Spartan]

yes getting passing the stadium renovation maps 3 ..getting the thunder the devon tower and p180 (which has been great for the CBD) .... more housing under plans and construction than their existed in down town ..

non of that is anything good

So let me get this straight - we're crediting Mayor Mick with Katrina and OKC's eventual basketball rise, Devon's new tower made possible by high oil prices, and developers building up downtown made possible by Norick.

Instead of talking about the things that other people made happen during Cornett's tenure, let's talk about the things that Cornett has done or not done. That would be more accurate. And I'm more than happy to discredit him with P180, but similarly that might be a bit harsh. I think you can reasonably view him as culpable on the boulevard, name, design, everything - but I don't think he's responsible for P180's gigantic screwups other than continuously promoting and enabling the city engineers who have bungled this project and many others.

[OKCisOK4me]

How on earth did he finish in 2nd place at the World of Mayors competition?

[soonerguru]

I think the city is getting off easy in this discussion. Yes, ODOT is very entrenched in its ways, but OKC leadership can and should be pushing for good solutions from them. I don't see that happening. I see closed meetings with people like Couch and Wenger making secretive decisions with ODOT and then "announcing" them to the Council. It's extremely important to hold ODOT accountable, but the city staff is where these ideas germinate and where the discussions of priorities are happening -- behind closed doors. People on this site and elsewhere need to get in their ear -- and get in touch with your city council representative -- to let your ideas be known. This city has been run like a banana republic for a long time.

[OKCisOK4me]

This city has been run like a banana republic for a long time.

Made me laugh cause I saw a quick flash in my head of city guys slipping around on a banana slide with papers flying out of their briefcases ;-)

[Spartan]

How on earth did he finish in 2nd place at the World of Mayors competition?

Well, every other city that isn't an economy based on energy prices is doing nothing but sliding downhill right now. I won't say Mick hasn't had his successes, he has and furthermore he's a nice guy when he's not being smarmy to citizens at City Council meetings. But attributing much of downtown to the guy is like attributing the city's weight loss to his official Taco Bell diet program. Give me a break..

[ou48A]

I think the city is getting off easy in this discussion. Yes, ODOT is very entrenched in its ways, but OKC leadership can and should be pushing for good solutions from them. I don't see that happening. I see closed meetings with people like Couch and Wenger making secretive decisions with ODOT and then "announcing" them to the Council. It's extremely important to hold ODOT accountable, but the city staff is where these ideas germinate and where the discussions of priorities are happening -- behind closed doors. People on this site and elsewhere need to get in their ear -- and get in touch with your city council representative -- to let your ideas be known. This city has been run like a banana republic for a long time.

We the people need to make sure that OKC leaders know what their priorities should be.
A sustained grass roots effort is often the best way to influence change on tone deaf leaders.
This IMHO also goes for the major OKC suburbs.

[OKCisOK4me]

Well, every other city that isn't an economy based on energy prices is doing nothing but sliding downhill right now. I won't say Mick hasn't had his successes, he has and furthermore he's a nice guy when he's not being smarmy to citizens at City Council meetings. But attributing much of downtown to the guy is like attributing the city's weight loss to his official Taco Bell diet program. Give me a break..

lol...that last line gave me a nice chuckle.

[Urban Pioneer]

Spartan, regarding the Mayor, you don't know what your talking about.

[betts]

Without Mick Cornett, the Thunder wouldn't be here today. Even if he did nothing else, and he's done far more, that would be enough to establish an admirable legacy. I don't always agree with him, but I certainly respect his passion and commitment.

[kevinpate]

How much of Norick's vision and efforts would have succeeded without Humphreys' 'finish MAPs right" push for the MAPs extension.
If no extension had passed, would the momentum have continued? Would there even have been an arena?

Anyone think the NBA would be here today if there wasn't an available arena parked just off DT when the Hornets needed a temp home?

Norick did great things. Absolutely. But it seems fair to say some of that greatness is because Humphreys pushed to avoid the vision from being diminished by the cost overruns. And then there was MAPs for Kids.

Without both Norick and Humphreys, the current mayor probably doesn't have any NBA connection at all. That would have likely left him a nice chap who presumably means well. He owes a lot to the other two, as does everyone.

[Urban Pioneer]

I wasn't talking about the NBA. Put that aside. We've heard enough about that. These new urbanist philosophies, continued downtown renewal, investments in walkability, are a direct result of the Mayor's self education on such matters at the National Endowment of the Arts in Washington. That is where he met Speck. So impressed with him, he brought him here.

He brought Speck here and planted a great many seeds, in many key minds. Then he appointed good people, streetcar committee included, to see this stuff through.

Our mayor isn't an iron-fisted mayor. He is a moderator. He allows debate and discussion to occur. Many of the great things that are happening now are because he has tried to posture carefully, allow debate to occur, whilst not making enemies that would tear the process apart.

People forget what type of era we are living in compared to the past. That's all I will say on the matter.

[Urban Pioneer]

Next MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee meeting is this coming Wednesday, June 27th, 3:30 PM at 420 Main (10th Floor Conference Room). The agenda hasn't been posted, but expect formal resolutions regarding the new OKC Boulevard/Transit Integration and contract expansion for studying necessary prep for the NE line connection to Santa-Fe Station Hub.

[CurtisJ]

I just returned from a quick vacation in Portland, OR. I spent five days and covered a large portion of that city without stepping foot in a car. The Light Rail/Bus system there was heavily used and, as a result, the roadways had very little traffic congestion.

The Portland system uses five rail lines, each looping through downtown and then running a different part of the outskirts of the city. All of the stops within about two miles of the center of downtown were free with progressively higher fairs for the furthest stops. From the rail line you can get to nearby areas via bus.

I would love to see Oklahoma's transportation system modeled after Portland's.

[Urban Pioneer]

I good part, we are modeling these first steps after Portland. Infact, a key person now on the design team is the manger for the Portland streetcar system.

[CaptDave]

I good part, we are modeling these first steps after Portland. Infact, a key person now on the design team is the manger for the Portland streetcar system.

This sounds promising. I hope the city will quickly move to expand the streetcar system and seriously evaluate the cost of the north - south commuter rail line everyone on here advocates. I still wonder if light rail might be better than commuter rail despite the significantly higher initial cost.....it seems like it can handle more frequent stops and is more easily expandable by getting away from freight RR right of ways.

[Urban Pioneer]

I think that Classen and NW Expressway are ripe for such a light-rail line if the connective sidewalks were installed to get to the stop. On the commuter corridor s such as to Edmond or Norman, a standard Diesel Electric or even Compressed Natural Gas type train probably would be sufficient as the distances are so great. But you are right about the areas that might have more frequent stops.

[ou48A]

This sounds promising. I hope the city will quickly move to expand the streetcar system and seriously evaluate the cost of the north - south commuter rail line everyone on here advocates. I still wonder if light rail might be better than commuter rail despite the significantly higher initial cost.....it seems like it can handle more frequent stops and is more easily expandable by getting away from freight RR right of ways.

I just posted on another thread that I was told yesterday that some in Norman would rather build a light rail system like DART’s light rail system than a commuter rail system.

[Urban Pioneer]

I believe it. In way it is more urban and cool. The "take-off" is faster. I am sure many in Norman would probably help pay for it if they were given the opportunity.

[CaptDave]

Commuter rail is the easiest and least expensive one implement quickly also. I was thinking about this when I was in DC a couple weeks ago. It would only take leasing (initially) 4 - 6 trainsets similar to TRE, VRE, or RailRunner, a few passenger platforms, and probably a few surface parking lots to have a starter system suitable for evaluation.

I still think light rail might be better long term; even for the Edmond - Norman corridor, for equipment standardization and operational efficiency even though the infrastructure costs are higher. I would love to see light rail up NW Expressway and Classen; and Will Rogers Airport/Mustang, the adventure district, and Tinker AFB/MWC.

I would love to do a detailed cost analysis of both types to see how the operational, infrastructure, and construction costs compare. I should find a way to make this my next career after the military.....

[CaptDave]

I just posted on another thread that I was told yesterday that some in Norman would rather build a light rail system like DART’s light rail system than a commuter rail system.

I believe it. In way it is more urban and cool. The "take-off" is faster. I am sure many in Norman would probably help pay for it if they were given the opportunity.

If Edmond and Norman would sign on with OKC to form a regional transit authority I think it is feasible to have this north - south line operational within 3-4 years. I would probably wait until the mess on I-235/Broadway Extension around the I-44 interchange is complete just to avoid service interruptions caused by the need for a wider rail overpass near 50th.