Streetcar

[Spartan]

I still think the whole problem here is thinking the streetcar needs to be all things to all people, when we need to view it as simply one small part of a mass transit system. While I think we need to look long and hard at our existing bus system and routes, they are just as important as the streetcar in terms of offering transit that doesnt require an automobile. I believe that a lot of these comments about who the streetcar should serve reflect an unconscious bias against bus transit, as if we provide effective transit, the mode shouldn't be that important. We have all sorts of things downtown that are unique and are designed as much for people making a special trip downtown as those living or working there, and until we have more money to spend on rail transit, the streetcar has to be something unique and special. That's not really any different from what has been done in other cities with their first streetcar route.

In addition, I would hesitate to call both SoSA and Deep Deuce places with the highest incomes.

It definitely does not need to be all things to all people, but it also doesn't need to be all things to a certain echelon of the citizenry and nothing to others. I believe 100% in the notion that downtown is the place to locate amenities and resources for there to be equal access, however, I also am past the realization now that let's face it: I've had a frankly privileged upbringing, you're fairly accomplished, most people downtown are--talk about the difficulty of finding a unit under $1,000/mo, and we also know that the people going to Thunder games every week, eating in downtown restaurants, going to meetings downtown, going to cultural events--these are typically the activities only of people who are doing well for themselves.

I want this system and this vision for quality of life to be shared by much more than people who look just like me, and I think in the future, this could be one of the emerging factors that turns around the huge issues that OKC has with income disparity, opportunity disparity, and social justice. OKC--in its never-ending (and hopeless) quest to one-up Dallas on every matter--is undeniably a capital of conspicuous consumption, even in the face of sagging incomes compared to peer cities and abysmal educational attainment. Wouldn't it be great if this new quality of life that is attracting the creative class to OKC could also provide an inlet for our existing citizens to join our creative class?

It's almost like the argument of local retail vs. chain retail, only instead of stores and buildings and leases and incentives, we're talking about people and families. I don't want that to ever be a force opposed to downtown. I know that you have fairly similar political and moral views to my own, being fairly humanist in a few posts of yours that went there before, so I know I'm not preaching to the choir...or the SR goons.

I just don't like the idea of telling people making <$25,000 and who don't own a car that if you want to ride this streetcar system that your tax dollars are paying for, that's fine, just go downtown first in order to hop on. Meanwhile they live around NW 23rd, which by and large, is undergoing its own major urban renaissance. A lot of us on here, myself included, think 23rd is about to explode once the Tower opens up, and that revitalization will probably have more trickle-down effect than downtown.

Not to go full-on Pete White on anyone...

[Urban Pioneer]

I disagree that this route does not serve lower income people as well. We intentionally are going by afordable housing at 9th, Palo Duro, retirement housing at Hudson, and mixed at Dewey. It is extremely diverse in its socio contact. Many of these individuals have mobility issues.

[OklahomaNick]

Nice little article in the Kansas City Star Newspaper about the complications of building their downtown streetcar line.
With a reference to what Oklahoma City is doing:

Streetcar backers could have fought for more support

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/26...#storylink=cpy

So Kansas City has officially applied for $25 million in federal funding to help build its proposed downtown streetcar line.

Too bad it’s not based on a plan with citywide financial and political support.

A small group of folks at City Hall and some rail-transit advocates who are understandably hungry for something to happen quietly decided last year not to ask voters to support this $100 million project.

There was no public discussion. No trial balloon was floated. It was based on our sad history with failed light-rail elections.

But let’s take a quick look at why streetcars are being pursued. They are much cheaper than light rail, costing $15 million to $20 million per mile, compared with as much as $60 million per mile for light rail, and they are less disruptive to build.

And this proposal, which could have been sold to Kansas City voters as the first leg of a larger streetcar system, doesn’t have nearly the price tag of the $815 million, 14-mile, city-backed light-rail plan that voters turned down in 2008 or the $793 million, 24-mile city proposal that was rejected in 2001.

So after being spooked by the ghosts of light-rail past, backers have decided to go the expedient route by proposing a transportation development district that would be paid for primarily by downtown property owners.

And not surprisingly, the property owners, who won’t even have a vote in the matter — that will be up to registered voters living downtown — aren’t happy.

Now, let’s see how Oklahoma City is pursuing a very similar plan.

Voters in that city of 580,000 people have approved a 1-cent sales tax for several major downtown initiatives, including a five- to six-mile streetcar line costing $130 million that will connect the city’s downtown and midtown areas.

It’s the fourth time the 1-cent sales tax has been renewed in the MAP program, which stands for Metropolitan Area Projects, dating back to the 1990s. Besides the streetcar, the latest MAP plan will help build a new convention center, a downtown central park and wellness centers.

“The ongoing theory is, downtown belongs to everybody,” Jeff Bezdek, a spokesman for the Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City. “You either go there for entertainment, shopping — a lot of people haven’t had a problem spending money for downtown.”

Now there’s a lesson for Kansas City.

This isn’t something politically divisive like the bistate tax. This is something voters living inside Oklahoma City have approved repeatedly. Kansas City has fewer residents, 460,000, but a 1-cent sales tax would be more than enough to build the streetcar line as envisioned.

Unfortunately in Kansas City, sales tax measures have quarter-cented and eighth-cented people to death, but they don’t pack the punch as the MAP penny does in Oklahoma.

So we’re apparently stuck with this transportation development district plan.

While the Downtown Council, the primary organization representing property owners, isn’t necessarily opposed at this point, it does have a laundry list of “outstanding issues” (DowntownKC.org/blog).

One of the big sticking points is that the current financing plan would squeeze $383,000 out of major charitable nonprofit agencies downtown, including $250,000 from the new Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts and $50,000 from Union Station.

“That’s a difficult cost for them to bear,” said Bill Dietrich, the Downtown Council’s president and CEO. “The Performing Arts Center is still in a fundraising mode, and while the Union Station is doing well, that’s not an insignificant assessment.”

Dietrich also pointed to smaller groups, such as the downtown community service center that cares for the homeless.

“We don’t want a charity with tight financing to say, ‘I can’t give meals to as many hungry or cut beds because of this assessment,’ ” he said.

And if a district to fund streetcars is established, downtown property owners want a greater say in its administration, with a couple of designated board members and some real perks for those who would bear the brunt of the cost.

Like making it a free ride.

“It would be more of an amenity to the downtown stakeholders who are paying for the streetcar,” Dietrich said. “It would be an amenity for people to use the streetcar to get from their office to a restaurant and also for people living downtown.

“People could jump on the train and not worry about having change. It would drive higher ridership and introduce more people to transit.”

Dietrich said the Downtown Council was willing to work with the city to come up with a more equitable plan. Kansas City Councilman Russ Johnson, who is leading the streetcar charge, has submitted a resolution asking City Manager Troy Schulte to pursue supplemental funding ideas.

“We’re at the table with the city working through the issues we’ve identified with the goal of developing the best streetcar plan possible,” Dietrich said.

To reach Kevin Collison, call 816-234-4289 or send email to kcollison@kcstar.com. Follow him at Twitter.com/kckansascity.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/26...#storylink=cpy

[MDot]

Jeff is now our local superstar. He's being quoted in other city newspapers? I envy you Jeff.

[Spartan]

I don't envy him! That man never rests! =)

The truth.

KC's narrative seems pretty typical so far. Yet another city that our federal application should have infinitely more weight than, but yet another city that will probably beat us out simply for political reasons. Like Fort Worth, Salt Lake, and esp Tucson..

If anything the goddam feds have been the bane of our ongoing streetcar attempts over the last two decades.

[MDot]

I don't envy him! That man never rests! =)

Sarcasm Sid, sarcasm. ;-)

[MDot]

I know. But I like to take opportunities to praise people like Jeff when I can. Even at your expense... ;-P

I can live with Jeff's praise at my expense, I was just making sure I wasn't being taken out of context. =)

[Urban Pioneer]

LOL. Thanks guys! I was surprised to get the call from the writer yesterday.

[Spartan]

LOL. Thanks guys! I was surprised to get the call from the writer yesterday.

So, what's it like to be interviewed by a real newspaper? Ha.

[Just the facts]

Oddly enough, Kansas City has more miles of freeway per capita than other city in America and delays on the freeway cost more in one year than their entire streetcar system would cost.

http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/sem...sion4/hubbard/

It is estimated that 70 percent of the congestion in Kansas City is due to incidents, costing local motorists approximately $120 million per year, considering delay and fuel costs

[ljbab728]

So, what's it like to be interviewed by a real newspaper? Ha.

I know that's a joke, Spartan, but I'm also sure that Steve really appreciates it.

[Tier2City]

City Arts Center in Oklahoma City will move from State Fair Park to downtown

From the Automobile Alley General Thread:

A great new addition for this area.

http://newsok.com/city-arts-center-i...rticle/3661892

The article mentions they were interested in the site since it is likely to be on the future streetcar line. Should be a feather in the streetcar advocates' cap. It hasn't even been built yet but is helping to encourage development.

[Just the facts]

Sadly, this group doesn't yet realize that you can't mix large parking lots with the pedestrian oriented nature of a streetcar in an urban enviorment. I hope they figure that out soon. I would prefer the City construct a small/medium community garage in the area that would be available to all businesses and free up a lot of the land in the area that is already surface parking.

Keesee said the site appealed to the foundation because it's on the fringe of downtown, has ample room for parking, and yet will likely be along a future streetcar line that can link it to other downtown arts attractions.

“It can easily accommodate people in that part of town who are interested in continuing art education,” Keesee said. “But it's also easy for people who live in the suburbs who want to come downtown but not mess with parking.”



Read more: http://newsok.com/city-arts-center-i...#ixzz1qbhSnYRn

[betts]

I guess you can say this is our first documented streetcar-related TOD, but I too have concerns about the statement about parking. I'd far rather see a parking garage built than a lot of the land left open. I guess any parking there would essentially function as a park and ride for evening events downtown, though, with the streetcar stop so close.

[Tier2City]

Jane Jenkins has been advocating for a Park and Ride facility in this area at Streetcar Subcommittee meetings. Also, lack of employee parking is a problem for businesses on Automobile Alley. What's the current status on the new COTPA garage(s)? Is this area still in the running?

[Spartan]

Jane Jenkins has been advocating for a Park and Ride facility in this area at Streetcar Subcommittee meetings. Also, lack of employee parking is a problem for businesses on Automobile Alley. What's the current status on the new COTPA garage(s)? Is this area still in the running?

I don't believe so. City Hall has hijacked the process and all the new parking garages are being planned in heavy office areas, such as surrounding City Hall.

[edcrunk]

Interesting story on Hot Air about Light Rail and an unfortunate consequence to a small businessman in St. Paul.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/1...am-in-st-paul/

[betts]

Light rail is different from streetcars, which have frequent stops. But we've seen businesses have difficulty even with street repairs. Less auto traffic doesn't necessarily mean less pedestrian traffic either. I think we would have to know more about this Minneapolis restaurant, its location and regular patrons. Sometimes it's easier to blame troubles on street work, etc, than to admit your product isn't as good as it used to be, or that there are more popular alternatives.

[Urban Pioneer]

OKC Central: Transit alternatives begin to emerge downtown in Oklahoma City

Steve Lackmeyer: Plans in Oklahoma City for electric car charging stations, a streetcar system and bicycle accommodations begin to open up transit options for downtown residents, workers and visitors.

By Steve Lackmeyer | Published: April 17, 2012

Historians generally agree that it was a German, Karl Benz, who invented the gasoline-powered automobile way back in 1885 with sales starting three years later.

Oklahoma City, founded in 1889, certainly was not designed from the start around the automobile. And for the first three decades, it's fair to say the early development of Oklahoma City was guided by a streetcar system that operated from 1904 to 1947.

But in the decades since, Oklahoma City has been a community designed around the automobile.
A small revolution is about to take place, however, in the heart of the city and this downtown experiment might just change the rules for decades to follow.
Consider first that

Read more: http://newsok.com/okc-central-transi...#ixzz1sJStwsDH

[Urban Pioneer]

Our next MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee is this coming Wednesday, April 25th, at 3:30 PM. 420 Main- 10th Floor Conference Room.

AGENDA

I. Call to Order

1. Approve Minutes of the March 21, 2012 MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board Transit Modern Streetcar Subcommittee Special Meeting
   
2. Discussion Items
   
   1. Update on the Oklahoma City Boulevard
   2. Update on the Santa Fe Station Acquisition for the Intermodal Transit Hub
   3. Update on the MAPS 3 Transit-Modern Streetcar Route Utility Investigation – Jacobs Engineering Group, Inc.
   4. Update on MAPS 3 Transit/Modern Streetcar Engineering and Consulting Services, Project M3-S003
   5. Update on Alternative Funding Sources Concerning the MAPS 3 Transit-Modern Streetcar Project "(IE ongoing Federal Application for Heath Sciences Center Line and TIGER 4 application for the Santa-Fe Hub)"- Jeff 4-21-12
   
   
3. Comments by Subcommittee Members, Staff, and Citizens
   
4. Adjournment

Also, the Modern Transit Project looking into some alternative evenings/weekends for information meetings/discussion if there is interest.

[ljbab728]

Also, the Modern Transit Project looking into some alternative evenings/weekends for information meetings/discussion if there is interest.

This is a great idea. 3:30PM on a Wednesday really limits who can attend.

[Urban Pioneer]

In response to all of the feedback on not having meetings about the streetcar at times where more citizens are available, the Modern Transit Project is opening a Project Office that will be staffed by MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee members and volunteers during the Better Block Project scheduled in May.

MAPS 3 STREETCAR-TRANSIT PROJECT OFFICE by MTP
A Better Block Project Temporary Site
SW Corner of Hudson/7th
Open May 18th - 19th (Friday + Saturday)
Staffed by appointed MAPS 3 Subcommittee Members and Modern Transit Project Volunteers

Blueprints of typical stop designs, photos, videos, route maps, and campaign buttons will be on display and available.

http://www.facebook.com/BetterBlockOKC

[CuatrodeMayo]

Awesome! That will be a great addition to the event.

[Skyline]

I'm curious, remind me again how Okc will be able to build 5 to 6 miles of streetcar with $130 million.

I ask because Tucson is broke ground on their streetcar. It is 3.9 miles and they have it at $196 million. http://www.tucsonstreetcar.com/index.htm

[Urban Pioneer]

I'm curious, remind me again how Okc will be able to build 5 to 6 miles of streetcar with $130 million.

I ask because Tucson is broke ground on their streetcar. It is 3.9 miles and they have it at $196 million. http://www.tucsonstreetcar.com/index.htm

Well the scopes are different for one thing. There were some major highway underpasses and other major projects rolled into their streetcar program. Also, it involves completely redeveloping the entirety of some major streets not unlike Project 180.

In our case, we are probably going "semi-wireless" which inherently reduces utility relocation costs. Construction costs in OKC tend to be suppressed compared to other states. Despite lack of P180 coordination, there are significant savings in knowing exactly where the utilities are (Robinson particularly) because they have been complete exposed. $130 million is probably "low average." It really comes down to the scope and how much you do to the streets themselves as part of the overall project.