Give this man some hope. (MAPS related)

[megax11]

I will be voting yes on 12-8 for Maps 3, so Downtown can get better looking and hoping it puts this city on the map more than it has gotten as of late.

However, when it comes time to voting, I always get worried that what I hope passes, won't pass.

I really want core-to-shore to happen, and if it looks anything like the concept art, it will be very nice looking in place of what's around there now.

So with all that said, can anyone tell me if they really believe this will pass? With all of the opposition out there for MAPS3, does anyone feel this will be a victory for those who want MAPS3 to pass, or a failure?

Any facts as to why anyone thinks it will pass, please brief me. I need hope.

[kevinpate]

So with all that said, can anyone tell me if they really believe this will pass? With all of the opposition out there for MAPS3, does anyone feel this will be a victory for those who want MAPS3 to pass, or a failure?

I've said a number of times that notwithstanding some interesting issues, many of which could have been avoided with little effort, MAPs3 will pass, but it'll be a closer vote than in the past.

As to all the opposition ... lots of screeching, lots of volume from a few speakers, but thus far the polls do not support the NAYS have the numbers to bring about a victory for their position, but they do appear closer than some think.

It's not a good election for either side to think they do not need to bother going to the polls that day.

[Doug Loudenback]

The original MAPS was anything but a sure thing, passing by 54% of the vote. I expect this one will be in the same percentage range but who knows which side will come out on top. I haven't heard any polls. All you or I or anyone can do is go the polls and cast your vote as you see fit. I'm a Yes vote. I have 3 yard signs up.

[Easy180]

I don't think we will have any problems passing MAPS until the city finally screws one of them up

[MikeOKC]

One component in this MAPS vote that hasn't been prominent in other MAPS elections is the organized opposition that can actually put boots on the ground in a get out the vote operation. Anybody in politics will tell you these elections are about GOTV. I think it will be close, but I think it will pass.

I'll say it again, I hate being put in this position by our city leaders. This hasn't been a highlight reel for Good Government. On principle I would normally vote NO on something so vague needing so much blind faith in politicians. This should have been laid out with more specific language and without having to resort to using rhetorical trickery to "explain" that away. I trust our city leadership (for the most part) but when big dollars are involved there's always the possibility, if not probability, of mischief.

People aren't blind, they have seen the progress with the MAPS initiatives. I have confidence it will pass.

Despite misgivings on how it has been handled, I think it's very important to vote YES on December 8th!

[henrywc]

The original MAPS was anything but a sure thing, passing by 54% of the vote. I expect this one will be in the same percentage range but who knows which side will come out on top. I haven't heard any polls. All you or I or anyone can do is go the polls and cast your vote as you see fit. I'm a Yes vote. I have 3 yard signs up.

I totally agree with Doug. I think the side that motivates the most people to turn out on Dec. 8 will win the election. Mark me in the Yes column.

[Spartan]

I'm not very confident it will pass. I have a really bad gut feeling, but then again I'm not at ground zero so I might not know for sure. I hope it does.

It's tough when the fire and police unions come out with everything they've got to oppose it. You know that every police officer and firefighter in OKC has been instructed to vote against it.. how many people is that? Tack that on to the Big League City vote and shave 10% off of the yes margin, and that'll be the final outcome.

[kevinpate]

I'm not very confident it will pass. I have a really bad gut feeling, but then again I'm not at ground zero so I might not know for sure. I hope it does.

It's tough when the fire and police unions come out with everything they've got to oppose it. You know that every police officer and firefighter in OKC has been instructed to vote against it.. how many people is that? Tack that on to the Big League City vote and shave 10% off of the yes margin, and that'll be the final outcome.

Perhaps, but what some folks tell their handlers, and what line they actually mark on a ballot when the handler ain't standing there, can often be different (applies to both sides) All in all, we have lots of passive/aggressive types in the state, including in the metro.

And it may fail, but I'm doubtful it will. Likewise I also doubt it'll be any kind of a major kick tail YES vote. 3-4 points max in the vote spread sounds about right, a mere squeeker for the city.

[kbsooner]

Anyone know if there is an absentee ballot form? I will be traveling for work on the 7th and 8th and need to cast my vote...

[Larry OKC]

Anyone know if there is an absentee ballot form? I will be traveling for work on the 7th and 8th and need to cast my vote...

Yes, an absentee is available but you must act quickly! Also, if you aren't already registered to vote, that deadline has passed.

Keep OKC Moving - Vote Yes for MAPS on December 8!

Absentee Voting
The deadline to apply for an absentee ballot is rapidly approaching! Your county election board must receive your absentee ballot application form via mail, fax or hand-delivery (if yours is the name on the form; you may not deliver an application for someone else) by 5 PM Wednesday, Dec. 2 if you want to vote by mail. Your county election board must then receive your ballot before 7 PM on Dec. 8 to be counted. If an absentee ballot is mailed to you, you must return it by mail also. See the state election board’s page on absentee voting for more details.

Absentee Voting

Oklahoma County Election Board | 4201 N. Lincoln Boulevard | Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73105-5201
Phone (405) 713-1515

[kbsooner]

Yes, an absentee is available but you must act quickly! Also, if you aren't already registered to vote, that deadline has passed.

Keep OKC Moving - Vote Yes for MAPS on December 8!

Absentee Voting
The deadline to apply for an absentee ballot is rapidly approaching! Your county election board must receive your absentee ballot application form via mail, fax or hand-delivery (if yours is the name on the form; you may not deliver an application for someone else) by 5 PM Wednesday, Dec. 2 if you want to vote by mail. Your county election board must then receive your ballot before 7 PM on Dec. 8 to be counted. If an absentee ballot is mailed to you, you must return it by mail also. See the state election board’s page on absentee voting for more details.

Absentee Voting

Oklahoma County Election Board | 4201 N. Lincoln Boulevard | Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73105-5201
Phone (405) 713-1515

Thanks for the info, I'll be getting my yes vote faxed in Monday!

[soonerguru]

I think the police and fire unions' efforts will make an impact -- of about two percentage points. Turnout will be a factor. The polling I'm aware of seems pretty solid, even after the other side got busy.

One thing to keep in mind is that Mayor Cornett is very popular -- more so than Kirk Humphries. The pro-MAPS ads are just starting to hit and the anti-MAPS people don't have the money to compete in the air war.

The print ads I've seen aren't very good, but I got a pretty nice piece of direct mail at home today and saw a nice TV spot with people from various neighborhoods talking about how important MAPS is to the city.

[Spartan]

I think the police and fire unions' efforts will make an impact -- of about two percentage points. Turnout will be a factor. The polling I'm aware of seems pretty solid, even after the other side got busy.

One thing to keep in mind is that Mayor Cornett is very popular -- more so than Kirk Humphries. The pro-MAPS ads are just starting to hit and the anti-MAPS people don't have the money to compete in the air war.

The print ads I've seen aren't very good, but I got a pretty nice piece of direct mail at home today and saw a nice TV spot with people from various neighborhoods talking about how important MAPS is to the city.

The tv ads are great, but that and expensive electronic billboards are virtually the only presence the campaign has. People haven't been too willing to put signs in their yard, or for whatever reasons (we've heard multiple accounts of dirty campaigning by the no people the signs are just disappearing. That doesn't bode too well when someone might be undecided and all they see are these 'Not this MAPS' signs appearing everywhere in the city. It gives you the false impression that the city overwhelmingly disapproves of MAPS.

I hope you're right, that Cornett's overwhelming popularity becomes a factor. But how many people voted in that election? Not very many, and not nearly as many will vote in this election. How many of those yes votes were likely city employees (fire and police) who now want that elusive 2% raise in the middle of a recession? The most terrifying prospect of all--how many people in OKC don't even care about city politics and city progress, but they're so tuned into right wing talk radio and they hear that "big govt is on the march in OKC" and without even knowing the facts they're just going to turn out en masse to oppose it?

For those reasons I don't think MAPS 3 will pass. The fact that more people are going to be voting in this election, including a lot of people who are new to city politics and are just viewing it in a divisive national politics kind of paradigm, and there are thousands of public safety workers alone. That's going to be a big voting block, at least 10% of the vote probably. If MAPS 3 does pass, it will be even closer than MAPS 1 was.

[CCOKC]

We put a sign in our yard and at our business but not without a little trepidation on my part. Both of our signs are on busy streets and are highly visible and I guess I am just worried about the seemingly aggressive campaign style of the NO side.

[FritterGirl]

We put a sign in our yard and at our business but not without a little trepidation on my part. Both of our signs are on busy streets and are highly visible and I guess I am just worried about the seemingly aggressive campaign style of the NO side.

Typical union thuggery. There, I said it.

Interesting to note:

Reports of uniformed police "harrassing" (probably a bit too strong of a word) City employees who were picking up "NOT THIS MAPS" signs during the City's Sign Sweep week, even though said signs were ILLEGALLY PLACED (per City ordinance) in public rights of ways, medians, etc.

I have also been told directly of one account where non-uniformed police officers are showing their police badges when pushing out information on NOT THIS MAPS.

I mentioned in another thread where a co-worker left for work with two YES FOR MAPS signs in his yard; came back from work to find them missing, and NOT THIS MAPS info taped to his front door. A neighbor of his verified that NOT THIS MAPS folks were out canvassing the neighborhood that day.

I'm not saying this doesn't happen on both sides of the issue fence. We see it happen all the time during political/party campaigns.

Here, however, I think some police & fire folks (NOT ALL) are using their status as a means of pushing their agenda through their perceived "power." It's a subtle way of intimidation, but works on many people.

I for one won't buy into it.

On another note, however, there is such a thing as the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" scenario happening. Not sure that traditional campaigning is always the best route. Would love to see more "grass roots" efforts by the Chamber, in addition to their advertising. Too many people seem to be muddled by the fear tactics of the NTM campaign, and are confusing rhetoic with facts.

[purplemonkeythief]

Typical union thuggery. There, I said it.

Interesting to note:

Reports of uniformed police "harrassing" (probably a bit too strong of a word) City employees who were picking up "NOT THIS MAPS" signs during the City's Sign Sweep week, even though said signs were ILLEGALLY PLACED (per City ordinance) in public rights of ways, medians, etc.

I have also been told directly of one account where non-uniformed police officers are showing their police badges when pushing out information on NOT THIS MAPS.

I mentioned in another thread where a co-worker left for work with two YES FOR MAPS signs in his yard; came back from work to find them missing, and NOT THIS MAPS info taped to his front door. A neighbor of his verified that NOT THIS MAPS folks were out canvassing the neighborhood that day.

I'm not saying this doesn't happen on both sides of the issue fence. We see it happen all the time during political/party campaigns.

Here, however, I think some police & fire folks (NOT ALL) are using their status as a means of pushing their agenda through their perceived "power." It's a subtle way of intimidation, but works on many people.

I for one won't buy into it.

On another note, however, there is such a thing as the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" scenario happening. Not sure that traditional campaigning is always the best route. Would love to see more "grass roots" efforts by the Chamber, in addition to their advertising. Too many people seem to be muddled by the fear tactics of the NTM campaign, and are confusing rhetoic with facts.

wow, that's almost as bad as the City Manager threatening small businesses that dare to put No signs in their windows.

[MGE1977]

[QUOTE=Spartan;275054] How many of those yes votes were likely city employees (fire and police) who now want that elusive 2% raise in the middle of a recession?

What would it take to get the raise myth eradicated from this thread? How about a public statement, a promulgation (if you will) that we will gladly give back our raises for more personnel. Wait, we already did that.
What about numerous public safety employees that are not union presidents or officers posting on this very site that they could care less for money at this time, if manning is brought up to operational standards that do not fly in the face of safety? Wait, just read any thread on this site that pertains to MIII.
Please, we all know that positions = money. For the nth time could we not simply lay to rest the assertion that this is for personal gain? Its personnel gain we're after.

[Wambo36]

. How many of those yes votes were likely city employees (fire and police) who now want that elusive 2% raise in the middle of a recession?

There you go spreading misinformation. If you don't know this is an out and out lie then you haven't done your research. Even the mayor has quit spreading this lie because he was called on it, finally. Try to at least back your position with facts. It takes a little longer but think of the self satisfaction.

[gen70]

I hope it passes and I don't even live there.

[MikeOKC]

Saw some "Yes" yard signs with a different design while out and about here in OKC. Look better than the others with that weird color combination.

Vote Yes December 8th!

[sroberts24]

I don't think u need to worry too much about the notthismaps people. Considering most of them are Police and Firefighters. But i guess u never know

[Spartan]

Well let me correct myself. Your union, which you pay dues to represent you, has been making public statements about not getting the 2% raise you have gotten every year (calling it a 2% pay cut). I am sorry for making the mistake, but it wouldn't be the first time that there was a misunderstanding when a union was involved.

As for personnel increases, that's not what your union is balking about. But I've said before, as a separate issue we should definitely be looking at public safety personnel and whether our current numbers are adequate.

Obviously increasing numbers in any department of the city is going to have to coincide with increased revenues. We aren't going to get increased revenues without two things first happening: first we need to recapture the retail market that's been shifting to Moore, Norman, Yukon, Mustang, Edmond, and MWC. As a major US city we can do this by bringing retail back to downtown.

Second we need to lay a foundation for continued economic development. We run the risk of economic stagnation at a time in our nation when you can't afford to be economically stagnant if we do not invest in economic development NOW. We have to keep planning for the future.

We have to continue to evolve as a city, competing with bigger and better cities, in order to provide for the best quality of life and economic opportunities that we owe to the nation's proudest citizens. If we become complacent with our current infrastructure and amenities we will become stagnant, we will slip into the recession, our revenues will continue to decline, our retail will relocate to Edmond or Norman, the economy in Central Oklahoma will continue to move backwards, our public safety issues will multiply, we will have to cut back on budgets for everything including public safety, and we will be back to where we were in 1990.

Nobody wants that. Keep the momentum. Vote for MAPS 3. Go OKC.

[MGE1977]

Sparticus

You are wrong about the raise, and 2% every year is inconsistent with the truth. MIII is to be completed in 7.5 years or so. Then we can feel the economic impact. As of now, we are in a transition. A growth phase if you like. If we want to keep from slipping into recession, perhaps we should look to "now" sorts of tactics. MIII is banking on the future, and the best years of current MAPS haven't kept the pace with the payback schedules thus far. Again, who wouldn't love to have some of those amenities? Imagine the fun we could have together, me in my running shoes and you perhaps in a fashionable pair of rollerblades as we glide down aureate sidewalks paved in precious stones, but the plain hard real fact is, public safety cannot take a hit for our snowcones on lazy afternoons.

[Spartan]

Sparticus

You are wrong about the raise, and 2% every year is inconsistent with the truth. MIII is to be completed in 7.5 years or so. Then we can feel the economic impact. As of now, we are in a transition. A growth phase if you like. If we want to keep from slipping into recession, perhaps we should look to "now" sorts of tactics. MIII is banking on the future, and the best years of current MAPS haven't kept the pace with the payback schedules thus far. Again, who wouldn't love to have some of those amenities? Imagine the fun we could have together, me in my running shoes and you perhaps in a fashionable pair of rollerblades as we glide down aureate sidewalks paved in precious stones, but the plain hard real fact is, public safety cannot take a hit for our snowcones on lazy afternoons.

Isn't this the kind of speech that a charismatic Latin American dictator gives to his parliament when the funding bill comes around?

[megax11]

All I can say is I will be voting yes for the sole fact why should I live in a city and not give to something that has given to me for the past 31 years?

Why should I be selfish, ask for something, but not help pay for it?

Why should I want to walk in this new central park, but ask others to pay for it, while I use it freely?

That sounds greedy to me. So I will say yes, pay 1 penny more yet again, if it means new things for the city I love.