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  1. Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Do teachers seek unemployment benefits during summer and vacations?

  2. #52

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    No, they have the option of receiving their salary year round or just while they're working. It's the same amount either way. Also, teachers are generally (unless they're laid off or terminated during the school year) thought of as contract labor. They sign a 1-year contract, and at the end of that contract, if they haven't done a good job, they just don't get renewed. That's generally not enough to qualify for unemployment if that happens.

    To be terminated for cause during the school year is a bit of a pain in the rear and most school districts don't want to deal with that. They have to in writing notify the teacher that the school board at the next meeting will be considering their employment status and that they're entitled to a hearing regarding that issue. If they want to, they can show up with a lawyer and make things difficult.

    Hope that helps.

  3. Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    I thought grade school teachers are on hourly minimum wage?

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Okie View Post
    You are making a false argument. There is nothing to suggest that minimum wage is getting anyone off welfare. If that is all they had coming in, they'd still qualify assuming they had enough kids or a disability.
    Well, I must have meant that allowing employers to pay as little as they can get by with in the free market may make overall pay go down and let more people be eligible for welfare.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    Employers already do this. They simply hire illegal immigrants rather than people with social security numbers who would demand niceties like W-2s, 1099s and minimum wage and such.
    But are you sure illegal immigrants don't try to speak up and try to settle for higher than minimum wage pay? They didn't come all the way to this country just to work for peanuts.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Tough to generalize, but the FLSA certainly doesn't apply to them. That can be one huge reason for employers to hire them. But for these guys, the minimum wage doesn't exist. If they can bargain for a higher wage, great. If not? They still get to work. For ordinary Americans, still getting to work, despite the fact the employer can't afford a higher wage just isn't an option.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    No, they have the option of receiving their salary year round or just while they're working. It's the same amount either way. Also, teachers are generally (unless they're laid off or terminated during the school year) thought of as contract labor. They sign a 1-year contract, and at the end of that contract, if they haven't done a good job, they just don't get renewed. That's generally not enough to qualify for unemployment if that happens.

    To be terminated for cause during the school year is a bit of a pain in the rear and most school districts don't want to deal with that. They have to in writing notify the teacher that the school board at the next meeting will be considering their employment status and that they're entitled to a hearing regarding that issue. If they want to, they can show up with a lawyer and make things difficult.

    Hope that helps.
    If I remember correctly your wife is a school teacher, so I trust you know of which you speak regarding their employment issues. There are those(not inferring you do or don't) who oppose a public school system for any number of reasons. I believe one of the arguments is that public schools can not get rid of bad teachers. If a bad teacher runs the risk of his, or her contract not being renewed then how does that particular argument have merit?

  8. #58

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    One of the problems in this country is that costs vary so much from one area to another. The minimum wage in OK can give someone the ability to survive in pretty modest housing. The minimum wage in NYC is a joke - you would have to live 25 to an apartment to afford to live there on it. There should be some way to fairly index costs of living (perhaps by county) and the minimum wage be indexed according to this. I know in the current economy it is different but in normal times most working people earn more than minimum wage anyway. Minimum wage is generally reserved for teenagers and part time employees.

  9. #59

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Unfettered market supply and demand would give an accurate index of what pay scales (and apartment rents) should be.

  10. #60

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Well, I must have meant that allowing employers to pay as little as they can get by with in the free market may make overall pay go down and let more people be eligible for welfare.
    I'm sure not following that logic, Bunty.

  11. #61

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I thought grade school teachers are on hourly minimum wage?
    Nope. My daughter-in-law (in NYC) makes about $75,000 a year. She has taught three years. One of the parents of my client is a highschool teacher in this area - $82,000 per year but she has taught 22 years. Oklahoma doesn't pay that. I got about $17,000 a year back in '89.

  12. #62

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    But are you sure illegal immigrants don't try to speak up and try to settle for higher than minimum wage pay? They didn't come all the way to this country just to work for peanuts.
    Try no payroll taxes, insurance, labor restrictions, blah, blah blah - there are reasons employers hire them and many do it under the table.

  13. #63

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Morgan View Post
    Minimum wage is generally reserved for teenagers and part time employees.
    And as soon as it raises to a certain level, people get laid off and the teens and part timer employees are out of luck - as are the consumers.

  14. #64

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    I think minimum wager earners shouldnt have to pay any taxes because of low wages.
    Minimum wage is generally reserved for teenagers and part time employees.

  15. Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Okie View Post
    Nope. My daughter-in-law (in NYC) makes about $75,000 a year. She has taught three years. One of the parents of my client is a highschool teacher in this area - $82,000 per year but she has taught 22 years. Oklahoma doesn't pay that. I got about $17,000 a year back in '89.
    I used to have these thoughts about becoming one and teach at the deaf school down there in Sulphur. The issue was the location. They never did move to OKC.

    Hmmm, I would support a MAPS project to relocate and build an entirely new campus in OKC. If that ever happen, then it is likely that I seek some sort of a degree to teach.

  16. #66

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by andy157 View Post
    If I remember correctly your wife is a school teacher, so I trust you know of which you speak regarding their employment issues. There are those(not inferring you do or don't) who oppose a public school system for any number of reasons. I believe one of the arguments is that public schools can not get rid of bad teachers. If a bad teacher runs the risk of his, or her contract not being renewed then how does that particular argument have merit?
    In most public schools, after three years a teacher has tenure. Once a teacher has tenure, she can only be fired for some non-specific purpose, e.g., the school is closing, or for cause. If she's fired for cause, all that notice and a hearing stuff is required. It can still be done, but it's a big PITA. Tenure does not apply to charter schools or non-public schools.

    Tenure is an idea which I think has a little bit of merit because the step pay system compensates teachers with experience at a much higher level than teachers without it. Without tenure, I'm afraid that experienced teachers would be replaced with neophytes in cost-cutting exercises by cash-strapped districts. That'd likely be actionable by itself, but that doesn't mean administrators wouldn't probably try it. In that respect, tenure sort of makes sense.

    The academic freedom justification though is bunkem.

  17. #67

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    In most public schools, after three years a teacher has tenure. Once a teacher has tenure, she can only be fired for some non-specific purpose, e.g., the school is closing, or for cause. If she's fired for cause, all that notice and a hearing stuff is required. It can still be done, but it's a big PITA. Tenure does not apply to charter schools or non-public schools.

    Tenure is an idea which I think has a little bit of merit because the step pay system compensates teachers with experience at a much higher level than teachers without it. Without tenure, I'm afraid that experienced teachers would be replaced with neophytes in cost-cutting exercises by cash-strapped districts. That'd likely be actionable by itself, but that doesn't mean administrators wouldn't probably try it. In that respect, tenure sort of makes sense.

    The academic freedom justification though is bunkem.
    Thanks

  18. #68

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    7.25$/hr !!!!WOW how do people even get bye w/that amount! I guess with a spouse/other dependant or with state/govt. help?

  19. #69

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by dmoor82 View Post
    7.25$/hr !!!!WOW how do people even get bye w/that amount! I guess with a spouse/other dependant or with state/govt. help?
    Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a livable wage.

  20. #70

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a livable wage.

    Where is that stated and even more, why not?

  21. #71

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    The more legitimate question would be why SHOULD the gov't even THINK about guaranteeing a "living" wage.

  22. #72

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    In my opinion, the government has good intentions, but they just don't take the time to thoroughly think the issue through.

    If I made minimum wage I would most likely be happy in the short term about the minimum wage increasing, for obvious reasons, and in the long term, would probably still be happy about it because I just wouldn't notice the effects that raising the min wage would have on my life.

    I might not notice that the cost of everything around me has increased (so my cost of living is still the same as before the wage increased)...

    I might not notice that the demand for labor has significantly decreased (so I get laid off or fired from my minimum wage job), and that alternatively, the supply of labor has significantly increased (so I am added to the millions of other unemployed 'minimum wage' victims joining the rolls of unemployment)...

    I might not notice that this increase in the unemployment rate begins to cause the state coffers to run dry, and I might not notice that the state, desperate to balance their budget raises taxes on everyone in that state in order to meet their unemployment obligations....


    In the above scenario, not only does raising the minimum wage not help anyone in the long term, but it effectively levels a tax on everyone. I don't know about Oklahoma, but this scenario has happened here in Michigan.. maybe not exactly as I've described, but pretty close.

  23. #73

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanusen View Post
    In my opinion, the government has good intentions, but they just don't take the time to thoroughly think the issue through.

    If I made minimum wage I would most likely be happy in the short term about the minimum wage increasing, for obvious reasons, and in the long term, would probably still be happy about it because I just wouldn't notice the effects that raising the min wage would have on my life.

    I might not notice that the cost of everything around me has increased (so my cost of living is still the same as before the wage increased)...

    I might not notice that the demand for labor has significantly decreased (so I get laid off or fired from my minimum wage job), and that alternatively, the supply of labor has significantly increased (so I am added to the millions of other unemployed 'minimum wage' victims joining the rolls of unemployment)...

    I might not notice that this increase in the unemployment rate begins to cause the state coffers to run dry, and I might not notice that the state, desperate to balance their budget raises taxes on everyone in that state in order to meet their unemployment obligations....


    In the above scenario, not only does raising the minimum wage not help anyone in the long term, but it effectively levels a tax on everyone. I don't know about Oklahoma, but this scenario has happened here in Michigan.. maybe not exactly as I've described, but pretty close.
    An insightful post.

  24. #74

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Shake2005 View Post
    Where is that stated and even more, why not?
    I stated it.

    Why? Because nobody can live on minimum wage (without government assistance maybe).

    Do you believe that it is currently a livable wage?

    Lastly, the government should not be in the business of telling private entities how to run their business, including how much they should compensate their workers.

  25. #75

    Default Re: Minimum Wage Increase

    I am a CPA who does payroll tax reporting for 60 or more small businesses in the state of OK. Only one of those pays minimum wage. And that client is paying her mom that because she wants to pay her something. Oh, and me. I pay my children minimum wage to clean my office and clerical work for spending money. Assuming a person works full time or 2080 hours a year a year's wages at the new rate of $7.25 is 15,080. See here for the 2009 US poverty levels.

    http://www.coverageforall.org/pdf/FH...vertyLevel.pdf

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