smoking in the park

[progressiveboy]

I am an ex-smoker and "should" be a smoke nazi like yourself but I know your info on secondhand smoke is udder horse hockey. You sound like a giant, intolerant wuss to me. Just wondering if you support those who want to ban perfume use in public or the use of peanuts in ANY foods.

Well it sounds like that you are intolerant of this poster voicing his/her opinion:^( I do however, give you kudos for being an ex-smoker :^)

[USG '60]

Well it sounds like that you are intolerant of this poster voicing his/her opinion:^( I do however, give you kudos for being an ex-smoker :^)

Aaah ...I was in a bad mood and wanting a cigarette when I wrote that. But I truly don't believe a word about second hand smoke being dangerous except in extreme cases, like maybe a non smoker who spends a career working in a very smokey bar. But even then I think a person would have to have a genetic propensity for whatever malady got them. Even very few smokers (percentagewise) die from smoking related diseases. And I truly believe that Oneforone is correct about us all being spoiled. We don't want any kind of discomfort or inconvenience. They are considered affronts to us spoiled Americans. Most of our friends and relatives still smoke and we let them smoke in our home just like before. We had said before we quit that we were not going to be typical ex-smokers and become nazis about it. Thank goodness it has not be hard to do.

[HVAC Instructor]

This law is proof we have way too many people that were raised spoiled and still live a spolied brat life. They think everyone has to obey their every wish and command.

At some point you have to learn to adapt to the world. You have to understand that you control what bothers you. It is not the government's and society's reponsiblity to see to it you have a stress free life.

You can always choose to ignore something or better yet move to another area. Common courtesy is a two way street. Sometimes it's better for you to take action and leave the offending person alone.

I must be misunderstanding exactly what you are talking anout here OFO.

Spoiled brats? Who? Where?

Adapt to the world? What, accept inhaling second hand smoke?

Choose to ignore second hand smoke?

If I misread, I apologize...but are you saying non smokers should STFU and live with the infringement of second hand smoke?

[USG '60]

I must be misunderstanding exactly what you are talking anout here OFO.

Spoiled brats? Who? Where?

Adapt to the world? What, accept inhaling second hand smoke?

Choose to ignore second hand smoke?

If I misread, I apologize...but are you saying non smokers should STFU and live with the infringement of second hand smoke?

Well, at least outdoors, for heaven's sake.

[mugofbeer]

Smoking bans in restaraunts and any other indoor public place? No problem. Smoking bans on sidewalks in crowded areas like downtown or public facilities (Bricktown Ballpark)? OK, I am fine with that. Smoking bans on a wide open golf course where the wind generally blows 20+ MPH - thats getting to be a bit over-the-top. Ban smoking in the pro shop but once you are out in the open elements, there is very little harm from 2nd hand smoke anyone is going to suffer.

[Psilocin]

I'm glad Norman put this law into effect, at least when I go ride my bike or take a walk at the park I won't be subjected to the stench of cigarette smoke coming from someone sitting 200 yards away on a windy day. Definitely not a waste of time or money, if people want to kill their lungs that's fine, don't subject non-smokers to the same. It's a proven fact that second-hand smoke can be just as deadly if not even more than smoking a cigarette. Does it seem I'm extremely intolerant of cigarette smoke? You bet I am.

LOLOLOLOL
Lrn2Substances

You aren't getting addicted to the secondhand smoke, are you?
Know what that means?
That means that your brain isn't receiving as much nicotine as the smoker(IE: Less smoke inhalation). You aren't feeling a nicotine rush when you ride by a smoker for a split-second, are you? Didn't think so. Smokers last for 50+ years, sucking down a pack or more a day. Do you REALLY think that second-hand smoke is more harmful?

If so, you're a tool and more disillusioned and narcissistic than I thought.

Also: I'm sure that if you're near a smoker in an environment where you're actually being subjected to smoke inhalation and you ask(NICELY) for them to put it out(THAT MEANS USE PLEASE AND THANK YOU), they will. And, if they give you some smartass remark, then they're a hateful prick and probably deserve cancer. :3

I'll also take this opportunity to call you a yuppie.
Yuppie. <3

[ronronnie1]

Boo hoo to all the non smokers whining about people smoking OUTSIDE. Because why? They don't want to see smokers lighting up in public? Whatever. Why don't we pass laws outlawing fast food. I mean, I have to LOOK at the resulting fat people, and I think that's just so rude and inconsiderate of them.

Oh yeah, smoke a cigarette - it'll curb your appetite.

[HVAC Instructor]

Hey...I have a simple solution for smokers: Smoke at home! The smoke is nasty and nobody but smokers like it, yet smokers feel they have some sort of "right" to impose their nasty habit upon others in public places. Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for smokers.

In the workplace, smokers waste productive time walking outside to the "smoking area" to take those extra smoking breaks. Smokers tend to catch more colds and miss work more often than non-smokers. Employers have the right to drug test potential employees, and not hire dopers. Maybe they should have the right to test for and refuse to hire smokers.

Insurance companies have the right to perform blood tests before they sell you a life insurance or health insurance policy and to charge you more for your insurance because smokers are higher risk, get sick more often, get cancer more often and die sooner than non smokers. So, hey, all you Libertarian and conservative types who believe society has no obligation to ensure every American has access to health insurance, this is right in line with your philosophies and ideologies! Lets stop paying for healthcare for smokerrs! We'll save billions!!

So, puff away...inside your own home, away from the public, and hopefully you will give your children the common courtesy of not forcing them to breathe your second hand smoke, which, when you get right down to it, is child abuse.

OK smokers, attack away. Go ahead and justify your habit of igniting dead pant matter and inhaling the smoke, and why you think you have some "right" to annoy others, and expose them to health risks with your nasty habit.

[USG '60]

Hey...I have a simple solution for smokers: Smoke at home! The smoke is nasty and nobody but smokers like it, yet smokers feel they have some sort of "right" to impose their nasty habit upon others in public places. Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for smokers.

In the workplace, smokers waste productive time walking outside to the "smoking area" to take those extra smoking breaks. Smokers tend to catch more colds and miss work more often than non-smokers. Employers have the right to drug test potential employees, and not hire dopers. Maybe they should have the right to test for and refuse to hire smokers.

Insurance companies have the right to perform blood tests before they sell you a life insurance or health insurance policy and to charge you more for your insurance because smokers are higher risk, get sick more often, get cancer more often and die sooner than non smokers. So, hey, all you Libertarian and conservative types who believe society has no obligation to ensure every American has access to health insurance, this is right in line with your philosophies and ideologies! Lets stop paying for healthcare for smokerrs! We'll save billions!!

So, puff away...inside your own home, away from the public, and hopefully you will give your children the common courtesy of not forcing them to breathe your second hand smoke, which, when you get right down to it, is child abuse.

OK smokers, attack away. Go ahead and justify your habit of igniting dead pant matter and inhaling the smoke, and why you think you have some "right" to annoy others, and expose them to health risks with your nasty habit.

Thanks for reminding me, we DO pay higher rates on our insurance because we were smokers when we bought the policies; I need to call an tell them we're nearly 6 months clean and ask when we get that discount. Most of what you said was mostly untrue or rude, however. Child abuse ...jeeez ....riiiight.

[HVAC Instructor]

Most of what you said was mostly untrue or rude, however. Child abuse ...jeeez ....riiiight.

Ok, fair dinkum. Make your case point by point. No intent to be rude, just calling it as I see it. Oh, and I'm an ex smoker, 20 years quit, and I hereby tender my apologies to all the people I annoyed with my own nasty habit.

[USG '60]

Hey...I have a simple solution for smokers: Smoke at home! The smoke is nasty and nobody but smokers like it, yet smokers feel they have some sort of "right" to impose their nasty habit upon others in public places. Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for smokers.

In the workplace, smokers waste productive time walking outside to the "smoking area" to take those extra smoking breaks. Smokers tend to catch more colds and miss work more often than non-smokers. Employers have the right to drug test potential employees, and not hire dopers. Maybe they should have the right to test for and refuse to hire smokers.

Insurance companies have the right to perform blood tests before they sell you a life insurance or health insurance policy and to charge you more for your insurance because smokers are higher risk, get sick more often, get cancer more often and die sooner than non smokers. So, hey, all you Libertarian and conservative types who believe society has no obligation to ensure every American has access to health insurance, this is right in line with your philosophies and ideologies! Lets stop paying for healthcare for smokerrs! We'll save billions!!

So, puff away...inside your own home, away from the public, and hopefully you will give your children the common courtesy of not forcing them to breathe your second hand smoke, which, when you get right down to it, is child abuse.

OK smokers, attack away. Go ahead and justify your habit of igniting dead pant matter and inhaling the smoke, and why you think you have some "right" to annoy others, and expose them to health risks with your nasty habit.

I guess it is all a matter of perspective so let me give some context to mine. The world man has made for himself in nature has always stunk to high heaven. Decaying and rotting leftovers, our and our animals "waste, our own body odors (utterly unbearable without constant attention). Practically everything man did caused a stink so he was forced to invent perfumes and use incenses to cover it all up as much as possible. But in short, especially if you lived in a city, life stunk BIGTIME.

Thankfully through the use of scientific knowledge, byandlarge, our world smells MUCH better now, but I remember when as a child there were times when the smell of cigarette smoke was a very welcomed coverup for a fouler odor. Growing up in the 40's and 50's when nearly all men and more and more women were smoking, I recall none of my friends EVER complaining about having to smell smoke (maybe cigar and SOME pipe tobaccos) in their homes or out in the world around them (where doctors would smoke while doing an examination). I would imagine that the lack of complaint was due partly to the fact that we all still knew that live stunk. We knew that there was nothing in the Bible, the Constitution or Shakespeare that said life should be without foul odors. We avoided them how and when we could but we never considered that we had a RIGHT to be free of them.

And we knew that the world didn't just stink, it was unhealthy with opportunistic bugs everywhere. Getting sick for a few days at a time with one thing or another was part of life. It is a good thing that we have reduced the amount of time that kids spend sick in bed, but now we are doing our children a disservice by not allowing them to built immunities to these 'bugs." When life is TOO sanitary we grow up susceptible to even worse things and some in the medical community are warning us against this over sanitation business.

We HAVE spoiled outselves. We think we should NEVER have to "suffer" ANYthing. No pain, no discomfort, no inconvenience, no impositions, no embarrassments, no paying of pipers, and no odors that are not pleasant. I am not proud of where we have come to.

All this has led to our outlawing things that some people have adverse effects to and I find that to be as sad as our dumbing down our education so everyone looks like a winner on paper.

We all need to realize that life is not a bed of roses and is sometimes a cow pie. And we need to remember that if everything is easy we can never appreciate it like we should. Sometimes life stinks and sometimes you cross paths with someone who smokes. I won't tell you to "get used to it," but I will say I think it would be nice if every now and then you were a bit more tolerant in the light of history. That's all.

[oneforone]

I must be misunderstanding exactly what you are talking anout here OFO.

Spoiled brats? Who? Where?

Adapt to the world? What, accept inhaling second hand smoke?

Choose to ignore second hand smoke?

If I misread, I apologize...but are you saying non smokers should STFU and live with the infringement of second hand smoke?

I am not saying that, I am saying eventually each induvidual has to make the decision to pick their battles. Sometimes people are going to do things to irritate you. You have several options. Move to another place, ignore it, or ask the person nicely to move down wind from you. Today the option seems to be throw a screaming fit or complain to your best buddy from high school who now holds a seat in government.

Today it's no smoking. What is next? No grilling in the park. No eating anything other than fruits and vegetables in the park. No sitting in the park. It seems to me the 98 pound fitness freaks (those lovely people who spend every minute of their free time excercising out of fear they might gain an ounce of fat on their body.) have taken over the world. They think every think designed to their needs.

[HVAC Instructor]

I am not saying that, I am saying eventually each induvidual has to make the decision to pick their battles. Sometimes people are going to do things to irritate you. You have several options. Move to another place, ignore it, or ask the person nicely to move down wind from you. Today the option seems to be throw a screaming fit or complain to your best buddy from high school who now holds a seat in government.

Today it's no smoking. What is next? No grilling in the park. No eating anything other than fruits and vegetables in the park. No sitting in the park. It seems to me the 98 pound fitness freaks (those lovely people who spend every minute of their free time excercising out of fear they might gain an ounce of fat on their body.) have taken over the world. They think every think designed to their needs.

I think we evolve as we learn. WE used to think smoking was harmless; then we learned it caused lung cancer and pancreatic cancer (of which my own father, a Lucky Strike smoker, died of), as well as emphasema and other lung diseases.

We used to think second hand smoke was harmless until controlled studies revealed the harm caused to children of smokers, like bronchitus and asthma.

And now we have learned that service workers in smoking establishments have been harmed and are being harmed by second hand smoke. There is no longer even a debate on the issue - we know it is harmful to health.

It is simply part of our human societial and social evolution, and it has been clashing with old social customs, and it is dying a hard, slow death, as it should. Just like we have learned that drinking from lead containers causes reproduction problems and birth defects and that mercury causes nurological problems. We got over the loss of lead paint and have learned to find other industrial processes that do not utilize mercury. Tobacco must take the same course.

[mugofbeer]

[QUOTE=HVAC Instructor;247208]Hey...I have a simple solution for smokers: Smoke at home! QUOTE]

Coming soon to a country near you! Federal ban on smoking in homes that are physically attached to others - just in case the smoke finds a way thru the walls to the adjoining units. Ban smoking, outlaw driving after ANY alcahol - legalize pot!

[HVAC Instructor]

[QUOTE=mugofbeer;247308]

Hey...I have a simple solution for smokers: Smoke at home! QUOTE]

Coming soon to a country near you! Federal ban on smoking in homes that are physically attached to others - just in case the smoke finds a way thru the walls to the adjoining units. Ban smoking, outlaw driving after ANY alcahol - legalize pot!

Nice hyperbole Mugsy! But...since you brought it up:

If you live in an apartment and your clothes stink because your neigbor in the adjoining apartment smokes like a freight train, then there are two choices - either force the landlord to install effective vapor barriers or stop smoking.

Don't drink and drive...What a concept! I do not drive after drinking even one beer; what's the problem? When the family goes out, the rule is the driver does not drink - period! Simple enough.

Legalize pot? Hell yes! I'm all for that with the common sense being that even though legal like alcohol, you do not have the right to annoy others with the smoke, and you don't smoke weed and drive. Again, a simple common sense concept.

Next!

[USG '60]

I think we evolve as we learn. WE used to think smoking was harmless; then we learned it caused lung cancer and pancreatic cancer (of which my own father, a Lucky Strike smoker, died of), as well as emphasema and other lung diseases.

We used to think second hand smoke was harmless until controlled studies revealed the harm caused to children of smokers, like bronchitus and asthma.

And now we have learned that service workers in smoking establishments have been harmed and are being harmed by second hand smoke. There is no longer even a debate on the issue - we know it is harmful to health.

It is simply part of our human societial and social evolution, and it has been clashing with old social customs, and it is dying a hard, slow death, as it should. Just like we have learned that drinking from lead containers causes reproduction problems and birth defects and that mercury causes nurological problems. We got over the loss of lead paint and have learned to find other industrial processes that do not utilize mercury. Tobacco must take the same course.

Please direct me to the best study on 2nd hand smoke. I want to see their methodology, etc. I have never seen anything that looked like more than tool to beat over the heads of the heads of the tobacco companies for lying about it being addictive. It all looks like a snit to me. I can be convinced I'm wrong. It happens a lot, but I am not about to accept any lobby groups statement.

Also, I wish you had addressed my post point by point but I'll live.

[HVAC Instructor]

Please direct me to the best study on 2nd hand smoke. I want to see their methodology, etc. I have never seen anything that looked like more than tool to beat over the heads of the heads of the tobacco companies for lying about it being addictive. It all looks like a snit to me. I can be convinced I'm wrong. It happens a lot, but I am not about to accept any lobby groups statement.

Also, I wish you had addressed my post point by point but I'll live.

No worries mate!

Here's one:

U.S. Details Dangers of Secondhand Smoking - washingtonpost.com

And here is the EPA web page on the subject:

"Setting the Record Straight... " | Smoke-free Homes Program | Indoor Air Quality | Air | US EPA

I think you concede that smoking is bad for you, right? If it is unhealthy for you to inhale smoke through a filtered cigarette, how could it not be unhealthy for others to breathe the unfiltered smoke from the end of your cigarette along with the exhaled smoke, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide that you exhaled?

Do you really need a study to convince you?

[mugofbeer]

No worries mate!

Here's one:

U.S. Details Dangers of Secondhand Smoking - washingtonpost.com

And here is the EPA web page on the subject:

"Setting the Record Straight... " | Smoke-free Homes Program | Indoor Air Quality | Air | US EPA

I think you concede that smoking is bad for you, right? If it is unhealthy for you to inhale smoke through a filtered cigarette, how could it not be unhealthy for others to breathe the unfiltered smoke from the end of your cigarette along with the exhaled smoke, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide that you exhaled?

Do you really need a study to convince you?

I dont think anyone denies that 2nd hand smoke is a danger indoors, but we are talking about OUTDOORS in an open space.

[HVAC Instructor]

I dont think anyone denies that 2nd hand smoke is a danger indoors, but we are talking about OUTDOORS in an open space.

Why should non smokers have to inhale second hand smoke outdoors?

Why can't we enjoy our parks without smokers forcing their smoke on us in the bleachers at our kids ballgames, or while walking the track at the local park, or enjoying any outdoor public event?

What gives smokers the right to impose their smoke on non smokers anywhere?

[PennyQuilts]

As a kid I was regularly locked in a car with no air conditioning and the windows shut with sadistic adults smoking like backed up chimneys. I tried to hold my breath for miles. Other than the flashbacks and horrible nightmares, didn't hurt ME none!

[mugofbeer]

Why should non smokers have to inhale second hand smoke outdoors?

Why can't we enjoy our parks without smokers forcing their smoke on us in the bleachers at our kids ballgames, or while walking the track at the local park, or enjoying any outdoor public event?

What gives smokers the right to impose their smoke on non smokers anywhere?

First, smoking is already banned at most organized sporting events, indoor or outdoor. More later on that.

The same reason we have to smell corn nut breath on some people, the same reason we have to smell the charcoal cooking on our neighbors grills every summer weekend, the same reason we have to smell truck exhaust on the highway, the same reason we have to smell someone's B O at the ballgame....its a fact of life. I don't like cigarette smoke more than anyone else but banning in a no-crowd open-air outdoor environment is going a bit too far and smacks of a socialistic we-know-whats-better-for-you-than-you-do attitude which you are starting to hear more and more of with what we eat and how we live our lives.

Banning smoking at outdoor sporting events is a totally different issue. At those, you have thousands of people packed closely together. At the golf course on the 13th fairway, you aren't in a crowd.

[blangtang]

maybe we should start a list of undesirables in public that aren't banned currently. It seems to be where this is going...

A few off the top of my head would be:

1) boom cars that rattle my house
2) city owned lawn mowers cutting grass in city parks while emitting noxious pollutants
3) people with B.O. at the library
4) fat people at the park that set a bad example for my kids
5) those noisy leaf-blowers, bah!
6) helicopters, those things are noisey!

please add to the list!

[TaoMaas]

I'd like to add:
7) No whiners allowed in public.

[PennyQuilts]

I'd like to add:
7) No whiners allowed in public.

I don't want them in my house, either!

[TaoMaas]

I don't want them in my house, either!

Here's my gauge: Set your alarm for about 2am. Go outside and look up at the sky. If you can't see millions of stars, then you're living in filth and have much bigger problems than some person smoking a cig across the park from you.