OKC mass transit announcement!!

[Tier2City]

I do not think that highways are subsidized. Monies spent on highways come from the federal and state gasoline taxes, unless Obama is doing his stimulation thing and that would be subsidizing. Rail is often subsidized from the gasoline taxes on the federal level.

At least rail isn't "not" subsidized by "not" taxes on the state level.

Good grief.

[betts]

I know streets and highways are subsidized, but I use them on a daily basis. I don't mind paying for things I use.

Some of us don't mind paying for things we think will help the environment, will help people who cannot afford a car, will decrease congestion and decrease urban sprawl.

[soonerguru]

I do not think that highways are subsidized. Monies spent on highways come from the federal and state gasoline taxes, unless Obama is doing his stimulation thing and that would be subsidizing. Rail is often subsidized from the gasoline taxes on the federal level.

Say what? If not subsidized, how would they be paid for? Only toll roads are not subsidized.

And by the way, what is Obama's "stimulation thing"? Are you referring to the stimulus package?

Highways are completely subsidized. So is transit. The point is we need to have both.

[purplemonkeythief]

If someone is going to talk about how good public transportation is, I would expect that they'd already use our current mass trans buses whenever possible even if it is less convenient. Which it almost always is unless there is a big event with no parking. There are plenty of bus lines that go right by the grocery store or other places, right now. I just wonder how many people who are "for" public transportation have actually regularly used the existing public transportation in the past six months. If they don't use it even though it is available, and they are the ones actually committed to it, I don't get why they are insisting it is the way to go and that we should drop more money into it. But maybe people really are using it more. Not that long ago when I lived in OKC, the city buses were always empty.

I ride the buses, everyday, at least until I find a new job and buy a car. That's why I'm up at 4:45am.

With the exception of around 7-9am and 5-6pm, all the buses I'm on are basically empty.

For the last 10 days I've been doing interviews and job hunting primarily Downtown and throughout the day every bus ride has consisted of me and no more than 3 other people.

When I do get a job, even if it's downtown, I can't think of any logical reason for me to drive DT and find a place to park just so I can ride a Streetcar 2 or 3 miles to work, that would be silly. If my job is downtown, the only reason I can think of for using the Streetcar once I'm there would be if I had a job that was flexible enough to let me schedule my lunch period around the transit schedule. I've never worked anyplace or heard of anyplace that let employees do that, but I guess I can hope for one.

That's with the added hope of getting a job that will pay me enough to be able to afford to eat at most of the places DT.

[PennyQuilts]

Good luck on the job hunt (I'll be doing the same thing, soon) and it's great that the bus is there to provide the option when you need it. For so many of us who have to juggle work and home, that means running errands on the lunch break or stopping by the grocery store on the way home, doctor visits, etc. Being stuck on public transportation is a ton harder so even if it is available, we'll drive our own car. It sure is nice to have it when you need it.

I used the metro to go to work in DC but I still had to drive to the station (a couple of miles) before a 48 minute ride with a transfer. My work was a couple of blocks from the end station. I could have taken the bus to the station by my house but it would have added an extra hour on the commute, both ways, and I was already leaving on the 6:03 train. I was greatful for the metro because it was the only way I could have gotten to work. On the other hand, without the metro, I would have found a different job closer to home.

Husband drives about 5 miles to the train station and is deposited an hour later a block from work. Again, it takes a private vehicle as well as the public transportation unless you are right next to a station.

My kids live in NYC. They'll take the subway to work but almost always take a cab home for safety reasons. They regularly hire a private car for grocery shopping and any other kind of shopping. Or they walk 6 - 12 blocks to grocery shop and haul stuff home. They'll sometimes take the subway during the day on the weekend but my son tends to ride his bike and the girls usually just walk if it is less than 15 blocks. I am not sure Oklahomans are willing to do that. Fact is, it is such a hassle that they'll walk rather than ride which isn't bad for their health but I don't think that is one of the goals of mass trans.

[Urban Pioneer]

Very interesting radio piece about traffic, transit, and the improving ability to procure federal transit dollars for system such as the streetcar.

Most notably... how public initiatives (local funds) leverage and attract federal funding in this new political environment.

WAMU 88.5 FM American University Radio - The Diane Rehm Show for Wednesday November 25, 2009

[betts]

That's an exciting concept. Anyone who knows what Urban Pioneer and MTP are about knows that there is no plan to stop with the streetcar. It will hopefully be the starting point for an efficient city wide mass transit system.

[Popsy]

SoonerGuru

The federal and state gasoline taxes are a use tax paid by people that buy fuel for their cars or trucks. That tax was put in effect for the purpose of building highways, therefore it is not a subsidy. Twenty percent of the federal fuel taxes collected are withheld however to fund the Federal Highway Administration bureaucrats. If you wish to view it as a subsidy however, feel free, as I have no objection to your viewing it however you want.

[PLANSIT]

SoonerGuru

The federal and state gasoline taxes are a use tax paid by people that buy fuel for their cars or trucks. That tax was put in effect for the purpose of building highways, therefore it is not a subsidy. Twenty percent of the federal fuel taxes collected are withheld however to fund the Federal Highway Administration bureaucrats. If you wish to view it as a subsidy however, feel free, as I have no objection to your viewing it however you want.

The problem, however, is that the gas tax is not a true user tax/user fee. Vehicles are continually becoming more fuel efficient and because of this highway dollars are stagnant, while costs and maintenance are increasing. A true user tax/fee is one placed directly on what you are using - in this case the highway. If we were taxed on vehicle miles driven, we would have a more equitable and sustainable means for funding.

There is a lot of debate about highway subsidization. And it really depends on how you look at it. It's safe to say that highways are partially (10-20%) subsidized, but not nearly as much as some pro-transit folks would like you to believe (this coming from a transit advocate). Transit is heavily subsidized, however, it's important to mention there are other factors for subsidizing transit, most notably its affect on land uses conducive to a more sustainable, livable, community. You have to be able to see beyond short-term cost advantages to truly understand the benefits of this mode of transportation.

[betts]

From the Edmond Sun:

Downtown future may ride on transit

James Coburn
The Edmond Sun

EDMOND — The 1998 Downtown Master Plan Review Task Force recently was given a presentation of how regional transit could impact downtown Edmond’s future. “I don’t think anything’s really broken with downtown. There’s nothing to fix. It’s really about making it that much better,” said Douglas Tennant of Edmond, a Jacobs company consultant in urban design and planning.

MAPS 1 in Oklahoma City was created because Oklahoma City was broken, he said. In turn, the City of Edmond is doing planning from a position of strength, Tennant said. In 2005, his firm did a 25-year transit plan for the Oklahoma Parking and Transit Authority. This plan identified seven corridors emanating from downtown Oklahoma City and three crosstown corridors.

“It really has become the foundation for the Oklahoma City MAPS 3 program,” Tennant said. “What their MAPS 3 contains is a $130 million downtown street car circulator system.” The regional transit dialogue was started as a result of MAPS 3, Tennant said. If Oklahoma City voters approve MAPS 3 on Dec. 8, a streetcar system would be created with connections to the state Capitol and key interest points. Tennant said polling on downtown transit shows overall public approval. As a result, the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments has been looking more closely at regional transit that would be implemented in phases, Tennant said. Potentially, people from the region could travel downtown on commuter rail to link to an enhanced trolley system that would take them to a destination point.

CDBG Grant Coordinator Shannon Entz said federal stimulus funding has sped up the transit dialogue on many levels. Cities like Edmond, Norman and Oklahoma City have been able to purchase more transit vehicles and ridership is increasing, Entz said.

“Six months or a year ago, this wasn’t on the front burner at all,” Entz said. The connection between downtown Oklahoma City and Tinker Air Force Base would be in place if stimulus grant funding is approved, Tennant said.

“Ridership forecasts, they started going through the roof when we started looking at if we gave them better options to get around,” he said. “And this became critically important when gas became $4 a gallon.”

Edmond and Norman are the highest priorities based on ridership, Tennant said. Phase 1 would go to the north side of Norman and down the Northwest Expressway in Oklahoma City. Phase 2 would enter the core of the University of Oklahoma. “Phase 3 brings in Edmond,” Tennant said. “Again, you all have probably the strongest ridership numbers, so that might change.”

ACOG has created a regional transit partnership of key players from Edmond, Midwest City, Oklahoma City and Norman because “you’ve got to be ready when the iron is hot,” Tennant said. The regional transit committee is focusing on how to share the costs of developing transit to create a benefit for the greater metropolitan area, Tennant said.

[LakeEffect]

“It really has become the foundation for the Oklahoma City MAPS 3 program,” Tennant said. “What their MAPS 3 contains is a $130 million downtown street car circulator system.” The regional transit dialogue was started as a result of MAPS 3, Tennant said. If Oklahoma City voters approve MAPS 3 on Dec. 8, a streetcar system would be created with connections to the state Capitol and key interest points. Tennant said polling on downtown transit shows overall public approval. As a result, the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments has been looking more closely at regional transit that would be implemented in phases, Tennant said. Potentially, people from the region could travel downtown on commuter rail to link to an enhanced trolley system that would take them to a destination point.

I'm sure Mr. Tennant is a nice guy, but he's not entirely correct. The first RTD Steering Committee meeting was April 2, 2009, before Maps 3 was officially a program. I'm not speaking for ACOG, but I think they realize that transit needs to be discussed on a regional level, regardless of whether or not Maps 3 passes. Maps 3 will only have a direct benefit for OKC anyway (side benefit may be a new transit hub downtown for future regional service).

RTD website: Central Oklahoma Regional Transit Dialogue

RTD steering committee minutes for 4/2/09: http://www.acogok.org/Programs_and_S...ingSummary.pdf

[Golfer]

Fyi, Mr. Cain head of city transportation made these comments at the transit meeting: once the transit system was in place, the continued cost to run it including maintenance would be a challenge and that generally the ride ticket cost are 50% subsidized. Paying 50% of each ride ticket purcashed will add up quickly.

[betts]

Golfer, virtually every major city in the US has decent mass transit. The fact that we don't should be a source of extreme embarrassment, IMO. Since every person in the city generally has places they need to go, if they don't use mass transit, they drive a car. Cars travel on roads, creating wear and tear on both the car and the road. Cars fill up roads and then roads have to be made bigger, in addition to needing to be repaired. We all have to buy the cars to travel on the roads, and we pay for the creation and maintenance of the roads, as well as the additional gasoline for and maintenance of our car. It doesn't matter if the dollars are federal, state or city, they're our dollars. There is no such thing as a free lunch. If we don't pay for mass transit, we pay for personal transit. Personally, if I'm paying anyway, I'd rather sit back and leave the driving to someone else.

[PLANSIT]

I'm sure Mr. Tennant is a nice guy, but he's not entirely correct. The first RTD Steering Committee meeting was April 2, 2009, before Maps 3 was officially a program. I'm not speaking for ACOG, but I think they realize that transit needs to be discussed on a regional level, regardless of whether or not Maps 3 passes. Maps 3 will only have a direct benefit for OKC anyway (side benefit may be a new transit hub downtown for future regional service).

RTD website: Central Oklahoma Regional Transit Dialogue

RTD steering committee minutes for 4/2/09: http://www.acogok.org/Programs_and_S...ingSummary.pdf

You are absolutely correct. The RTD was born out of the recommendations set forth by the Fixed Guideway Study. ACOG's involvement was a natural fit to facilitate such dialogue due to its role as the region's MPO.

This is no knock on MAPS 3's importance, especially the Streetcar element, as it too was a key component of the FGS system plan. The Streetcar section is vitally important to the eventual regional approach to comprehensive transit options because of its ability to move people from node to node once downtown and to introduce Central Oklahomans to the practice of transit-oriented land use around fixed-guideway infrastructure. It's so important to get something out there for people to touch and see - once they do, nearly every U.S. example concludes that they will want more. Most likely, the regional system will be that more.

[betts]

This is no knock on MAPS 3's importance, especially the Streetcar element, as it too was a key component of the FGS system plan. The Streetcar section is vitally important to the eventual regional approach to comprehensive transit options because of its ability to move people from node to node once downtown and to introduce Central Oklahomans to the practice of transit-oriented land use around fixed-guideway infrastructure. It's so important to get something out there for people to touch and see - once they do, nearly every U.S. example concludes that they will want more. Most likely, the regional system will be that more.

This is the key, and this is why I think the streetcar is the most important part of MAPS. I want good mass transit, as do many other people. The streetcar is only a start, but it has the potential to transform the thinking of people who live here.

[betts]

I'm putting this article both in the news compendium and here, since it relates only to transit:

Oklahoma City MAPS 3 proposal includes streetcar system
BY BRYAN DEAN Comments 2
Published: November 29, 2009

It’s hard to picture getting around in Oklahoma City without a car, but Mayor Mick Cornett said he believes that will change. Cornett said the $130 million public transit piece of MAPS 3 is all about what the city can do to prepare for a future in which a car won’t be the only way to get around. A streetcar system and a downtown transit hub linking buses, the streetcar and rail lines are the city’s first step toward that future, Cornett said.

Opening steps to rail
When the city surveyed residents in 2007 about what they’d like to see in MAPS 3, transit was the No. 1 suggestion by a wide margin. Leaving transit out of the $777 million MAPS 3 proposal wasn’t an option, but Cornett said transit means different things to different people. "The problem was making sure that whatever we did in the long term helped transit,” Cornett said. "You could make a mistake and try to do too many things or do something poorly and it could doom transit for the future.”

The city participated in a years-long study that determined all the possible transit needs for the metro area. Among the suggestions were enhanced bus service, commuter rail, a streetcar and other options. The city has begun the process of going after federal transit money for commuter rail lines connecting downtown to Tinker Air Force Base as well as to both Edmond and Norman. The city is also pursuing the idea of high speed rail, which could connect it to Dallas, Tulsa, Kansas City and the rest of the country. Including commuter rail in MAPS 3 brings up problems, though. For one, such a system is incredibly expensive. Federal transit money can help, but nothing is guaranteed, and city leaders didn’t want to include projects in MAPS 3 that would require federal funds to complete.

Ward 2 Councilman Sam Bowman said the streetcar and the downtown transit hub are a way to prepare the city for those bigger ideas. "I don’t see any of this without the transit hub,” Bowman said. "To me it is the most important piece of the MAPS initiative.”

Legitimate transit
Cornett said if people come to Oklahoma City on a rail line, they won’t have a car when they get here. "The idea is a very measured, a very logical and strategic first step, a downtown streetcar that we can use to get visitors to our attractions, get workers to their jobs and get the people who choose to live downtown the opportunity to live here without having a car,” Cornett said.

Jeff Bezdek, who has lived downtown for nine years, is the chairman of the Modern Transit Project, a group that began advocating for a downtown streetcar before MAPS 3 was announced. Bezdek said he latched on to the idea when he went to Portland, Ore., on a business trip. "I experienced their fantastic streetcar system firsthand,” Bezdek said. "When you ride in one of these things, it’s comfortable, it’s air conditioned. It’s made of glass so you can see the city. I saw people getting on with their bicycles.”

The streetcar system proposed in Oklahoma City isn’t like the historic streetcars in San Francisco and New Orleans. "The modern streetcars are much more comfortable,” Bezdek said. "They are quieter. They hold more people, and they are ADA accessible without the use of an elevator. And they are much more efficient.” Bezdek said other cities that have put in a modern streetcar have seen a 10-to-1 investment by the private sector along the streetcar’s route.

The streetcar would be electrically powered and would travel on fixed rails. Plans call for five to six miles of streetcar line. A specific route has not been chosen, but Cornett said he favors a "spoke and hub” system that would function as legitimate transit rather than a loop that would only really serve tourists. A spot for the transit hub hasn’t been chosen either, although it will likely be located along the existing Amtrak rail line that runs through downtown, Cornett said.

Bezdek said the important thing is that the city is finally doing something about its mass transit needs. "The idea is to put a down payment on this regional system and be able to apply for and procure federal dollars,” Bezdek said. "The easiest way to get to the top of the list is to show that your community is committed to a mass transit plan.”

Read more: NewsOK

[betts]

It looks like Edmond is thinking about following suit, and this shows that they are also planning on contributing financially to a metro transit plan, just as Urban Pioneer had suggested might happen.:

Future might bring streetcars to downtown Edmond

James Coburn
The Edmond Sun

EDMOND — Focus is building for mass transit-oriented development with commuter rail streetcars in Edmond within the next 25 years.The 1998 Downtown Master Plan Review Task Force recently was given a presentation of how regional transit could impact downtown Edmond’s future.

“Sometimes people say it’s development oriented around transit because the downtown street car and regional commuter rail, it’s really as much about economic development as it is about transportation modes,” said Douglas Tennant of Edmond, a Jacobs company consultant in urban design and planning.Every transit stop has huge potential because development thrives with a captured market, he said.“Transit-oriented development is a compact mixed use development located within an easy walk of a transit stop,” Tennant said.

In 2005, his firm did a 25-year transit plan for the Oklahoma Parking and Transit Authority. This plan identified seven corridors emanating from downtown Oklahoma City and three crosstown corridors. The regional transit dialogue was started as a result of MAPS 3, Tennant said. If Oklahoma City voters approve MAPS 3 on Dec. 8, a streetcar system would be created with connections to the state Capitol and key interest points. As a result, ACOG has created a regional transit partnership of key players from Edmond, Midwest City, Oklahoma City and Norman. The regional transit committee is focusing on how to share the costs of developing transit to create a benefit for the greater metropolitan area, Tennant said.

Twenty-four-hour urban districts are becoming more of what is desired in cities, Tennant said. “For new economy companies, which is what we’re after in Edmond, (what is desirable) is connectivity,” he continued. “They want to be able to get places easily. They want proximity to transit and proximity to clients. They want to be able to connect physically to wherever they want to go.” Fifty-seven percent of echo boomers, children younger than 19, are attracted to diverse urban locations, Tennant said. Seventy-one percent of older households want to live within walking distance of essential services and entertainment, he said. “Married couples and kids are no longer dominant,” said Tennant, who is married with two children. “That typical American family is not so typical into the future. Empty nesters and single family households are on the rise and they want urbanity.” He said demographics show that more empty nesters and young professionals do not want yards to maintain. Edmond could develop a new sector for this population who would want to live near downtown, near restaurants and the University of Central Oklahoma’s surging night life with a Jazz Lab and the proposed performing arts center. “We are seeing that demographic change,” said Shannon Entz, Edmond’s Community Development BlockGrant coordinator.

Experienced developers are driving cities into public and private partnerships. Tennant said cities with vision and organized planning are in a position of strength with developers because the market for developers is down somewhat in today’s economy, he said. A design is already in place for an additional commuter rail line to connect Edmond and Oklahoma City, Tennant said. The question is how would Edmond craft a downtown plan to beckon commuter rail, he said.

“I’m not saying you need to change your ordinance today, but potentially your plan needs to talk about how that ordinance needs to be changed if and when this regional transit becomes a reality,” he said.He cautioned that there is a lot of quaintness worth preserving in downtown Edmond. Doing so would preserve it as “the greatest little downtown in America,” Tennant said. “But yet there’s forces coming at downtown,” he said. “You all are doing exactly what you need to be doing, thinking about what we’re going to be in 10 years.”

Discussions are under way to create a Regional Transit Authority in the Oklahoma City region, Tennant said. It won’t be long before ACOG asks Edmond and other metro communities how they would be willing to invest in commuter rail. “As a city resident I’ll support it because it will be good for Edmond,” Tennant said. “It will be good for everybody who owns a business in Edmond and everybody who lives in Edmond.”

Entz also serves as chairwoman of ACOG’s Regional Transit Dialogue Technical and Land Use committee. She said the group is looking at an ordinance and policy tool kit for cities to consider when promoting diversified land use development for urban economic growth. Examples of how other cities prepared for commuter rail’s impact on economic development is beginning to be shared with Chamber of Commerce groups.

Former City Councilman Barry Rice has proposed that the City of Edmond purchase all 33 parcels of land from Edmond Road to Sixth Street, and from Broadway to the railroad tracks. The city already owns nine of these parcels, a total of 2.4 acres, Rice said at a recent meeting of the Central Urban Development Board. Private owners own 5.4 acres and public rights-of-way include 3 acres, he added. The city could purchase 10-12 acres of land in this area, he said.

“Having the plan that’s already been presented for the pedestrian bridge and for the parking space, a transfer center for transit doesn’t need to be anything elaborate at all,” Entz said. “In Lawton, their transfer center is essentially a long awning, a curb cut and a bathroom.”

A permanent transit center for Citylink Edmond is already planned off Third Street in this area, Entz said. And the bus service would compliment a commuter rail service by bringing people to the transit center, she said.

[urbanity]

A down payment on transportation | OKG Scene.com

[betts]

A down payment on transportation | OKG Scene.com

Nicely done, Jeff. Bravo! What a clear, thoughtful piece of writing that is.

[urbanity]

Bill allows formation of transportation districts between cities, encouraging passenger rail | OKG Scene.com