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Thread: Hobby Lobby business practices

  1. #201

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by adaniel View Post
    Mr. Green says that the Plan B pill causes abortion yet there isn't one reputable medical association that says that.
    WebMD (and I'm pretty sure that the contributing authors know their stuff and aren't following a political or religions agenda) says in their web page that discusses Plan B:
    Plan B: 11 Questions, 11 Answers

    9. How does Plan B work?
    Plan B works like other birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. Plan B acts primarily by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary. It may prevent a sperm from fertilizing the egg.

    If fertilization does occur, Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb. If a fertilized egg is implanted prior to taking Plan B, Plan B will not work and pregnancy proceeds normally.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Perhaps Hobby Lobby could start to market microscopes and test tubes in order to avoid the penalties of doing business in America, 2012/13?
    (in order to do kosher pennance in non-protestant solidarity with the pope on stuff like this? even a couple of imams might volunteer to get on the bus)

    When The Government takes over The Hobby Lobby stores I think they should rename them something along the lines of "Slouchin' Toward Bethlehem*"

    *With apologies for "obscure" references . . .
    (and Calendars of the Maya =)

    The Second Coming (by some Yeats dude or whatever)

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

  3. #203

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    WRONG! No one is preventing any employee of his company from buyng truckloads of any sort of contraceptive they want. They simply have to buy that one drug themselves. Do you, honestly, live your life as dictated by your employer's health care plan??
    Would you feel the same if it was for diabetes, or high blood pressure, etc....

  4. #204

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Would you feel the same if it was for diabetes, or high blood pressure, etc....
    I call "non-sequitir"! (regarding birth control, rhetoric [101])
    (or should that be: "shennanigans"?)

    Frankly, my blood pressure went down each of the one or two times I walked into a Hobby Lobby or Mardels.
    I think--excuse me: I feel--that they have pretty good business practices.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Would you feel the same if it was for diabetes, or high blood pressure, etc....
    This discussion goes round and round all the wrong items. No, I don't want my employer involved in my health care, whatsoever. I don't want them to be forced to provide me any insurance, either. If they choose to do so as a sort of incentive to attract the right employees, they can. Google can offer free lunch to attract the right employees. Other employeers can offer free transit cards to attract the right employees. or day care ... whatever, but that doesn't change that they shouldn't be forced to do any of that under the auspices of making the world a better place. If the government wants to force insurance down all our throats, then they should do it rather than coopt the employer. This isn't like child labor -- don't equate the two. The new law that some of you think we all should just bow down to and obey isn't right. Does HL need to just shut up and take it, rather than questioning the legality of this new law? No and it is NO embarrasment to Oklahoma that some corporation doesn't see the law as fair. If I were Mr. Green, I would lower everybody's hours to less than full time and then continue to offer the same benefits that I wanted to (to the new part-timers who might be paid more to make up for the lost hours) and avoid the fee. The government should never have mandated that employers provide insurance.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    The new law that some of you think we all should just bow down to and obey isn't right. Does HL need to just shut up and take it, rather than questioning the legality of this new law? No and it is NO embarrasment to Oklahoma that some corporation doesn't see the law as fair. If I were Mr. Green, I would lower everybody's hours to less than full time and then continue to offer the same benefits that I wanted to (to the new part-timers who might be paid more to make up for the lost hours) and avoid the fee. The government should never have mandated that employers provide insurance.
    Absolutely!

  7. #207

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    And don't forget that this is the same "government" that introduced US to the terrors of The Fiscal Cliff . . .

    (so . . . what if mr. green gave each female employee a quarter with the instructions to hold it firmly between their knees and each male employee a quarter to attempt one of those famous "handrail skateboard" stunts in order to impress her?)

  8. #208

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    So take it out on full time employees because his knowledge of the after morning pill is wrong..? How benevolent that would be of Mr Green...

  9. #209

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    So take it out on full time employees because his knowledge of the after morning pill is wrong..? How benevolent that would be of Mr Green...
    No. Turn them into Part time employees that get the same pay and benefits as full time employees did as of Dec 31, 2012.
    His knowledge of the after morning pill [sic] is not wrong. It is consistent with info posted on the WebMD page.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    No. Turn them into Part time employees that get the same pay and benefits as full time employees did as of Dec 31, 2012.
    His knowledge of the after morning pill [sic] is not wrong. It is consistent with info posted on the WebMD page.
    Thats not how I took the WebMD info. And you do know that you can basically take two or three birth control pills together and it is essentially a morning after pill, right?

  11. #211

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Thats not how I took the WebMD info. And you do know that you can basically take two or three birth control pills together and it is essentially a morning after pill, right?
    Then why is the morning after pill necessary? Moot, in my opinion. I still don't want the government forcing any employer to provide me insurance (health, car, life or otherwise) and I still don't want my employer deciding what medicines I can or can't take.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Thats not how I took the WebMD info.
    How can you take it any differently? It clearly states that Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb. I assume it is said like that because it can happen. It's clearly not the primary action that Plan B puts into motion, but it can happen. Or maybe it's stated like that because they don't really know how it prevents a pregnancy. All the same, if you believe that the miracle of life takes place the minute an egg becomes fertilized, then Plan B may cause an abortion or miscarriage (the removal of a fertilized egg or the termination of a pregnancy).
    Again, moot three days ago, when a business could use health insurance (or any other benefit or perk) to lure the best employees. It's (or at least used to be) like fishing. You could catch good fish using the right lure. I would say that Hobby Lobby determined that the insurance they WERE using was attracting the employees they wanted. Now, they can't say as much. It represents less choice for the employer and employee (who might have been attracted to such a deal) alike.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Would you feel the same if it was for diabetes, or high blood pressure, etc....
    Like many people, I've got a high deductible policy which means I pay out of pocket until I hit about $3,500.00 (next to never happens). I take bp medication for migraines and it is about 10.00 a month - insurance doesn't pay for that or my synthroid ($4.00 a month - OMG!). No biggie. The morning after pill - like these meds - simply isn't a high priced, hard to get item and I would be embarassed to try to say they were controlling my health care if they didn't violate their spiritual beliefs to pay for it. Seriously, as a tolerant member of society, I am willing to bend a little to pay for my own cheap stuff, particularly if it means other people don't have to do something they think is wrong.

  14. #214

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    In fact, the only Judaism prohibition on swine is the consumption of them as a food. Islam is very similar, but often the extreme versions go further.Are Xenotransplants Kosher? - My Jewish Learning
    So, is the government going to start mandating that companies provide pork to their employees as a source of protein and refuse to consider that they have a religious problem with that? If that sounds like a silly policy, please be aware that some of us think that mandating the Plan B pill or even contraceptions is ridiculous. This is our bosses' business because...???

  15. #215

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    So take it out on full time employees because his knowledge of the after morning pill is wrong..? How benevolent that would be of Mr Green...
    Seriously? This is the party that demands the government get out of their bedrooms but drags in their employers.

  16. #216

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Would you feel the same if it was for diabetes, or high blood pressure, etc....
    Would you feel that the government should be able to order companies to stop covering certain conditions or patients?

    It's not a question of what the government should make them cover, but whether the government should have the right to control the health benefits of private corporations. The level of coverage should be up to the provider.

    And as has been said, Plan B pills just aren't prohibitively expensive, especially if they're being used as an emergency contraceptive and not long-term birth control. I would never file an insurance claim for a $20 pharmacy purchase.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    [QUOTE=Hawk405359;607821]. . . It's not a question of what the government should make them cover, but whether the government should have the right to control the health benefits of private corporations. The level of coverage should be up to the provider. [QUOTE]

    Hear, hear!!

  18. #218

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    No. Turn them into Part time employees that get the same pay and benefits as full time employees did as of Dec 31, 2012.
    His knowledge of the after morning pill [sic] is not wrong. It is consistent with info posted on the WebMD page.
    The info posted on web MD is pretty much a rehash of the information that gets sent with the drug, the same info the NYT article says is not supported by science, was objected to by the manufacturer but mandated by the FDA anyway. Find some science to back up your claim. It's contraception, not abortion.

  19. #219

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Here's the bio of the author of that article:

    Miranda Hitti assigns and edits features for WebMD. She joined WebMD in 2005 as a medical writer and later became a senior medical writer, covering breaking news and new medical research. Previously, she was a freelance writer for WebMD.

    Hitti also freelanced for publications including Cooking Light, The Atlanta Journal/Constitution, Arthritis Today, This Old House, Better Homes and Gardens, Fidelity Stages, Fidelity Focus, the Atlanta Business Chronicle, and numerous other magazines, newspapers, and web sites. She began her career by working at CNN for five years. She is the author of Life Lessons: A Guided Journal.

    In 2004, Hitti received two Dalton Pen Communications Awards of Excellence for articles written for Fidelity Stages, a personal finance magazine.

    A graduate of Duke University, Hitti has a bachelor's degree in cultural anthropology and a certificate in film and video.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    As far as HL thumbing their nose at the court, the government and the society in which they operate by reducing all employees to part time status...consider managing 28,000 part timers or 38,000 part timers instead of the 14,000 mix of full time and part timers they have now.

  21. #221

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    The info posted on web MD is pretty much a rehash of the information that gets sent with the drug, the same info the NYT article says is not supported by science, was objected to by the manufacturer but mandated by the FDA anyway. Find some science to back up your claim. It's contraception, not abortion.
    It's contraception that is sometimes abortion. I've cited where I got my info. All you said is that the FDA approves of what I cited, some reporter from the NYT doesn't agree with WebMD or the FDA, the WebMD writer may have reported on other topics in the past, and the manufacturer would rather that info not be made public. How 'bout YOU cite something?

  22. #222

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    And we're.STILL dancing around the wrong subject. HL should never be forced to provide ANY insurance to their employees. It's subverting the free (labor) market.

  23. #223

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    As far as HL thumbing their nose at the court, the government and the society in which they operate by reducing all employees to part time status...consider managing 28,000 part timers or 38,000 part timers instead of the 14,000 mix of full time and part timers they have now.
    Thanks, Big government. Way to make things better. Name a few of your other success stories. Katrina? Iraq? Libya? Sandy?

    mjkeeves, it is so sad, to me, to see that so many people have gone from feeling empowered and seeing the government as working for them - to seeing themselves as subjects of the government and the perceived hive. It is a shame, to me, that when people stand up for what they believe is right (which is not the same thing as being greedy or power hungry) they are described by so many as thumbing their noses at the government and "society."

    Obamacare and oppressive tactics/stupid policies like this aren't even supported by the majority of Americans. And even the ones who support Obamacare, overall or at least in theory, for the most part have significant concerns about this sort of idiocy even if they are initially willing to throw the benefit of the doubt in that direction. Only the lapdogs assume that if the government passed it, it must be good. End of story. How embarrassing. I don't know any thoughtful person, left or right, willing to suspend their judgment to that extent. There is something childlike about trusting any authority to that extent - a bit like a cult member.

    Obamacare is a legislative monster and all thoughtful people realize that, at best, it is going to involve a lot of tinkering and rethinking what was crammed in it. It was not well written. It amounted to a grab bag of ideological treasures and now we've reached the point of actually learning what it is in and sorting through what works and what doesn't. These sorts of discussion are good - the alternative is to simply allow bad legislation to be passed because it was prompted by a certain ideology. The best policies can be thwarted by bad legislation and all large pieces of legislation - invariably - have unintended consequences. The extent you can avoid them is part of what makes a good law. Anyone who has ever had anything to do with lawmaking, state or federal, knows that they often cause as much problems as they solve if they aren't closely vetted. We all know how this was passed. It is no wonder this sort of stupidity is being dealt with after the fact.

  24. #224

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    As far as HL thumbing their nose at the court, the government and the society in which they operate by reducing all employees to part time status...consider managing 28,000 part timers or 38,000 part timers instead of the 14,000 mix of full time and part timers they have now.
    They would at least be doing it legally with THEIR values, not the governments.

  25. #225

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    It's contraception that is sometimes abortion. I've cited where I got my info. All you said is that the FDA approves of what I cited, some reporter from the NYT doesn't agree with WebMD or the FDA, the WebMD writer may have reported on other topics in the past, and the manufacturer would rather that info not be made public. How 'bout YOU cite something?
    It's not just that some reporter disagrees, it's that the science just isn't supporting that it affects eggs after fertilization, which is what the NYT article was about. They cite several sources, including an FDA representative who said the science is supporting that the pills don't affect an egg after fertilization, and a Mayo Clinic doctor who said the same thing. The WebMD article was first written in 2007, which is really pretty old as far as medical information goes, you try to use more recent studies and data when making medical decisions. Odds are that they, like the Mayo Clinic (which is eager to change it) is just waiting for the FDA to actually make an official change in wording. But since 2007, the National Library of Medicine (one of the most valued and well maintained database of medical information in the world) removed references that the pill affects fertilized eggs based on more up-to-date studies. Based on the evidence, it just doesn't appear that the classification of them as an abortion pill is accurate anymore.

    That said, I agree that it's still dancing around the wrong subject.

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