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Thread: Hobby Lobby business practices

  1. #126

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    I find it humorous that so many people seem to act like the people who work at Hobby Lobby have no choice in where they work. If you views are that opposed to that of the owner whose Christianity has always been out there for all to see and should not be a shock to anyone applying there, you always have the freedom of choice not to work there....but then most people will compromise their principles for money and would rather gripe about something rather than live true to their principles they claim to hold so dear.

  2. #127

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    I don't see Hobby Lobby paying for the morning after pill or the like. This is not going to go well. Perhaps they will get a waiver but I doubt it. I hope they don't start slashing full time employees.

  3. Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Hmmmm, publicly traded and owned corporations MUST be allowed to exercise their rights to free speech by being able to donate millions of dollars to a political candidate just because the officers happen to support that candidate - even when the employees or stockholders may not support that candidate. This equates a corporation to a "person."

    PRIVATELY owned corporations cannot exercise their right to free speech or free exercise of a religion-based moral standing when the owner owns the business - NOT equating the business to a "person."

    What am I missing?

    Supreme Court here we come!

  4. #129

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Sotomayor rejects Hobby Lobby request for injunction on HHS mandate « Hot Air

    It looks like OKC will soon lose one of its largest employers. This isn't good.

  5. #130

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    LOL, that has nothing to do with any chance that OKC will lose Hobby Lobby. That ain't happening.

  6. Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by ljbab728 View Post
    LOL, that has nothing to do with any chance that OKC will lose Hobby Lobby. That ain't happening.

    Exactly where are they going? Greece?

  7. #132

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by ljbab728 View Post
    LOL, that has nothing to do with any chance that OKC will lose Hobby Lobby. That ain't happening.
    There are several sources, mostly blogs, that state the owner has said he will close the business before he provides the morning-after pill. He will be faced with three choices: compromise his religious beliefs and comply, go out of business, or sell the company. I have several family members employed with them so this is making me very nervous.

    I don't want to debate whether they are right or wrong to push this issue as I personally see nothing wrong with contraception.

  8. #133

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    There are several sources, mostly blogs, that state the owner has said he will close the business before he provides the morning-after pill. He will be faced with three choices: compromise his religious beliefs and comply, go out of business, or sell the company. I have several family members employed with them so this is making me very nervous.

    I don't want to debate whether they are right or wrong to push this issue as I personally see nothing wrong with contraception.
    My company does business on a daily basis with Hobby Lobby. This isn't happening. They will fight it all the way but Hobby Lobby will not close up no matter what.

  9. #134

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    This isn't seen as a contraception problem. Please don't package the dispute that way because contraception isn't the issue and if they believed this was about contraception, there wouldn't be a problem. The morning after pill doesn't allow a fertilized egg to implant into the uterus and is believed, by many, that because fertilization has taken place, the morning after pill doesn't prevent conception, rather, it aborts a viable embryo. We can argue until the cows come home about whether this is, medically, abortion but the relevant point is that HL sees it that way.

  10. #135

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Imo, they'll close, pay the fines or restructure to part timers before they'll pay for what they believe is abortion causing drugs.

  11. #136

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    Imo, they'll close, pay the fines or restructure to part timers before they'll pay for what they believe is abortion causing drugs.
    Close a multibillion dollar company...rrrright. I have a feeling they are holding steadfast in their ways to gain sympathy once the fines start rolling in but they will not be closing. Pretty sure they would sell before foolishly closing.

    Would certainly suck to work for a company whose owner can pick and choose what medicine they will cover, which is why I believe the government is right. I have no problem with churches being exempt but for profit businesses, whether owned by the most fundamentalist christian or an athiest shouldnt be able to opt out just because they dont like a certian pill that is deemed necessary for womens health

  12. #137

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    This isn't seen as a contraception problem. Please don't package the dispute that way because contraception isn't the issue and if they believed this was about contraception, there wouldn't be a problem. The morning after pill doesn't allow a fertilized egg to implant into the uterus and is believed, by many, that because fertilization has taken place, the morning after pill doesn't prevent conception, rather, it aborts a viable embryo. We can argue until the cows come home about whether this is, medically, abortion but the relevant point is that HL sees it that way.
    To be completely literal about it, the morning after pill isn't contraception, as conception is the fertilzation of the egg. The morning after pill (if a previous poster had it right) creates a hormone surge which causes the uterus to flush the fertilized egg and prevent it from adhering to the uterine wall. My analogy: a chemically induced D'n'C. I think the Green family has it right.

    Will this mean an end to Hobby Lobby? I seriously doubt it, but I'll bet it means an end to the great pay structure they had ... at least for the full-time personnel.

  13. #138

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Close a multibillion dollar company...rrrright. I have a feeling they are holding steadfast in their ways to gain sympathy once the fines start rolling in but they will not be closing. Pretty sure they would sell before foolishly closing.

    Would certainly suck to work for a company whose owner can pick and choose what medicine they will cover, which is why I believe the government is right. I have no problem with churches being exempt but for profit businesses, whether owned by the most fundamentalist christian or an athiest shouldnt be able to opt out just because they dont like a certian pill that is deemed necessary for womens health
    I cannot imagine a situation wherein the morning after pill could be deemed necessary for womens health.

  14. #139

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    I cannot imagine a situation wherein the morning after pill could be deemed necessary for womens health.
    Thats what doctors have determined. I fugure they know more than me...or you.

    And if you want my amateur opinion, contraception is definitely a necessity when it comes to womens health and family planning, which overall are a definite benefit for our country's health and financial well being.

    Cant wait until we become like nearly every other first world country and most people realize that an egg getting fertilized is just a simple and very common act of nature, not some miracle that was controlled by a man in the sky.

  15. #140

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    the headline from fark.com:

    "Hobby Lobby to continue hobby of lobbying Appeals Court to allow their other hobby of lobbing their beliefs on their employees private lobby hobbies"

    -M

  16. #141

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Thats what doctors have determined. I fugure they know more than me...or you.

    And if you want my amateur opinion, contraception is definitely a necessity when it comes to womens health and family planning, which overall are a definite benefit for our country's health and financial well being.

    Cant wait until we become like nearly every other first world country and most people realize that an egg getting fertilized is just a simple and very common act of nature, not some miracle that was controlled by a man in the sky.
    I'm sure that doctors have determined that contraception is something that contributes to womens health and I agree totally that it contributes to family planning. I don't know of a single doctor and I'll bet that you don't either that says emergency contraception (Plan B One-Step, Next Choice, Levonorgestrel Tablets) is necessary for womens health when planned contraception is much more effective.
    Sure, family planning contributes to our country's health and financial well being, but emergency contraception is not necessary per any doctor.
    The fact that contraception is practiced in the U.S. indicates that we ARE like nearly every other first world country and realize that an egg getting fertilized is a simple common act of nature -- a preventable act of nature.

  17. #142

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Close a multibillion dollar company...rrrright. I have a feeling they are holding steadfast in their ways to gain sympathy once the fines start rolling in but they will not be closing. Pretty sure they would sell before foolishly closing.

    Would certainly suck to work for a company whose owner can pick and choose what medicine they will cover, which is why I believe the government is right. I have no problem with churches being exempt but for profit businesses, whether owned by the most fundamentalist christian or an athiest shouldnt be able to opt out just because they dont like a certian pill that is deemed necessary for womens health
    The morning after pill isn't a pill deemed necessary for a woman's health, it isn't widely used except as a backup for stupidity or rape, and there are other places to get it besides their employer. It isn't an expensive medication.
    As for scoffing at closing a multimillion dollar business, I see this attitude quite a bit - it is as if it is beyond comprehension that people wouldn't sell out their spiritual values for money. That is the sort of mindset that thinks it is okay to hire out your spouse or your daughter if the money is right. Don't be mad - seriously, what would be the difference?

    Speaking as someone who is not affiliated with a mainstream religion, it really bothers me that the government, with panting excitement by many seculars, are trying their darndest to rob people of their right to freedom of conscience unless they are closely tied to an organized religion. Seriously, that is the most terrifying thing I can imagine. My spiritual faith is one of the things most precious to me and the notion that I would not be allowed to follow it unless I am a "church" is stunning. And with the fine as large as it is for people who, on principle, don't want to pay for abortion related medication, it is the same as saying give up your values or go out of business. That's wrong.

    And before someone brings up slavery and treating women differently than men, we have constitutional protections to back up laws keeping people from engaging in such things. This, in contrast, is an all out assault on personal conscience, IMO. Just because a secular person doesn't "get" it, doesn't mean it isn't important. All it really means is that the secular person just doesn't "get" it. This sort of heavy handed government pressed ideology could just as easily insist that businesses donate to support pornography - logically, there is no difference because it is just a tax with the beneficiary of the tax chosen by the legislature. This is simply a policy the government has chosen and it is willing to stamp on personal conscience to further it. If this were something like cancer, I might be able to see it. It isn't. It is for cheap, available medication that any woman could get if she wanted to. They are willing to erode the value of freedom of conscience just cause. Morning after pill, today. What tomorrow?

  18. #143

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    I don't see how the heads of Hobby Lobby, if their such highly devoted Christians, can live with a clear conscious from doing such a massive amount of business with a atheistic country, such as China where abortion is sometimes mandatory.

  19. #144

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    I don't see how the heads of Hobby Lobby, if their such highly devoted Christians, can live with a clear conscious from doing such a massive amount of business with a atheistic country, such as China where abortion is sometimes mandatory.
    No problem with actively employing Chinese slave labor, but morning after pill....o no.

  20. #145

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    At this point, the argument has moved beyond "is Plan B right or wrong." The courts have had their say. This is a battle they are going to lose. Before they do anything stupid, they need to ask themselves is it worth $1.3 million a day to fight for a losing proposition.

  21. #146

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    They are willing to erode the value of freedom of conscience just cause. Morning after pill, today. What tomorrow?
    Grow up and move on. Each court this has been infront of has thrown Hobby Lobbys case out.

    If you dont like this ruling like the mental breakdown you had after Obama won reelection go ahead and self deport. Maybe Canada, wait no. Maybe England, wait no. Maybe a country in the EU, wait no. Ehh..

    Maybe you can move to Bangladesh and make some quilts since the understanding of law thing never really worked out for you.

  22. #147

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Nobody is saying women who work for Hobby Lobby can't use the morning-after pill. David Green is simply saying he isn't going to pay for it.

  23. #148

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by sidburgess View Post
    I'm just a little urked by them playing the drama-queen card. Mostly because once again, it reflects poorly on Oklahoma. If this type of coverage was so incredibly averse to Christians, why is it mandated in 28 states? I've not heard the screaming and gnashing of teeth. There is a reason we don't have 50 different versions of Medicare.
    The way it is implemented it is actually way more than 50, each state is a little different and in states like California each county is a little different.

  24. #149

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by sidburgess View Post
    He isn't. He is paying for insurance. Does he care what people buy with their social security check too?
    Are you sure you understand it's not contraception they're upset about? It's the morning-after pill, and you don't have to be a Christian to believe it's abortion. Big difference.

  25. #150

    Default Re: Hobby Lobby business practices

    Quote Originally Posted by zookeeper View Post
    Are you sure you understand it's not contraception they're upset about? It's the morning-after pill, and you don't have to be a Christian to believe it's abortion. Big difference.
    Isn't it really simply about obeying the law? Hey I don't like funding US military bases in Germany or the incarceration of dope smokers but I'm pretty sure I can't line item those expenses out of my taxes without consequences. Hobby Lobby should be expected to obey the law the same as anybody else.

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