Hobby Lobby business practices

[MadMonk]

-Sorry about that one

-Exactly - it seems like they stand up for their religious beliefs when its convenient and cost effective for them and they turn a blind eye when it isnt. Hobby Lobby's entire business model is based on buying cheap chinese crap (which we know is built in slave conditions with a LONG history of abuse and forced abortions) and then reselling it to Americans at a higher price. I watched 'Walmarts, the high cost of low price' the other day and the average toy was purchased for something like $0.07 in China and resold for $15.88 here in America. I'm sure Hobby Lobbys business model isnt far off of that number, so if they cant support their christian ideals and bring christian like working conditions to their workers on $15.81 margin per toy then that's b.s. Maybe they should ask themselves, WWJD.

But now they have a big moral objection to paying a few cents for there American workers to have access to birth control? come on!?!

Do you have first hand knowledge of this or is this an uninformed opinion? I ask because I know a buyer for Hobby Lobby and she says you have no clue about what you are talking about in this case. She says that Hobby Lobby employs their own people in China to ensure that the quality of the product they buy is rigorously tested and meets the highest standards. In addition, they only use suppliers that agree to wages and working conditions that are in line with the owner's standards. She makes several trips to China every year and sees this for herself. They are apparently pretty good standards because the jobs in those plants are highly sought after. She did say that there have been some exceptions in recent years, and as a result Hobby Lobby began manufacturing the product in-house(this was a yarn product she was talking about) and they make the product here in OKC now.

It seems that you misunderstand their objection. It's not about the money, it's about medicines that are effectively abortion pills, not regular methods of contraception prevention.

[WilliamTell]

-She says that Hobby Lobby employs their own people in China to ensure that the quality of the product they buy is rigorously tested and meets the highest standards

-They are apparently pretty good standards because the jobs in those plants are highly sought after. She did say that there have been some exceptions in recent years,

-Hobby Lobby began manufacturing the product in-house(this was a yarn product she was talking about) and they make the product here in OKC now.

-If they meet the highest quality standards I have some Halloween decorations that I purchased last year that have since melted together for her to refund.

-Highly sought after jobs - reference my post about the iphone workers at the foxxcon plant. These are probably the highest sought after jobs in the country and they make a whopping 20 dollars a month, work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, forced to live in dorms that you and i would never live in, forced to eat meals at the factory, and have had hundreds of health and safety violations that have been covered up for years. But hey, thousands still line up outside the plant for jobs. Maybe the Hobby Lobby owner should ask himself...What Would Jesus Do?

Employ modern day slave labor and then tell his state side employees how good those Chinese workers have it compared to the rest of those.......??????

-Wow, they make yarn here. Kudos to them.

[WilliamTell]

It's not about the money, it's about medicines that are effectively abortion pills, not regular methods of contraception prevention.

I thought this deserved a separate response. So, State sponsored forced abortions for his Chinese workers are OK........but his American workers voluntarily having medical access to the morning after pill is against his religion.

Why doesnt this guy petition the Chinese government with this nonsense if he gave a damn about his 'highly sought' after Chinese workers.


I'm a proud Christian. I just get a kick at how other 'Christians' are so quick to down grade and dismiss another human being rights (human and religious) because they are a different color or speak a different language. I'm pretty sure that's not WWJD.

[Easy180]

They are apparently pretty good standards because the jobs in those plants are highly sought after. She did say that there have been some exceptions in recent years, and as a result Hobby Lobby began manufacturing the product in-house(this was a yarn product she was talking about) and they make the product here in OKC now.

It seems that you misunderstand their objection. It's not about the money, it's about medicines that are effectively abortion pills, not regular methods of contraception prevention.

Ain't really buying this either...Sure they pretty up the sweat shop I mean factory when the big bad buyer is in town

[Double Edge]

Obvious question, if the workers standards are up to the company standard, why are they spending all that time and energy having stuff made in China instead of having it all made in the US? They meant it's up to the company standard for slave labor I suppose.

And work where? Another big box store who sells cheap, Chinese-made merchendise? Wal Mart, the bain of the left, doesn't have health care benefits yet has no problem attracting employees. Better to let HL provide 98% of the desired health care benefits that to not provide them at all.

Which begs some questions...why are they paying people more than the going rate to work for them?

The only place I found searching for employee satisfaction showed Hobby Lobby score as "dissatisfied" while scores for Walmart, Michaels, Target are "ok". There's not much of a sampling at that site. Perhaps someone else will come up with some better data. But a lot of the comments square with the comments of the only person I know personally who worked for them.

Hobby Lobby Reviews | Glassdoor
^the site at the top of the googler return when you search "hobby lobby employee satisfaction"

Are they a good employer?

[MadMonk]

-If they meet the highest quality standards I have some Halloween decorations that I purchased last year that have since melted together for her to refund.

Pro-tip: Things melt if they get too hot. Hard to beat that whole physics thing isn't it?

-Highly sought after jobs - reference my post about the iphone workers at the foxxcon plant. These are probably the highest sought after jobs in the country and they make a whopping 20 dollars a month, work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, forced to live in dorms that you and i would never live in, forced to eat meals at the factory, and have had hundreds of health and safety violations that have been covered up for years. But hey, thousands still line up outside the plant for jobs. Maybe the Hobby Lobby owner should ask himself...What Would Jesus Do?

Employ modern day slave labor and then tell his state side employees how good those Chinese workers have it compared to the rest of those.......??????

-Wow, they make yarn here. Kudos to them.

Please elaborate on the details of how you obtained your experience in dealing with the Chinese culture so that I can compare it to the experience of someone who has been there and has first hand experience. Bonus points if Google or Wikipedia isn't involved.

I don't consider myself a Christian scholar, but I doubt that Jesus would want someone to go against his deeply held belief that abortion is wrong by providing for the means of performing it.

[MadMonk]

Ain't really buying this either...Sure they pretty up the sweat shop I mean factory when the big bad buyer is in town

She's been there a long time. I'm sure if something was amiss, she would know by now. But hey, how can long term personal experience compete against your preconceived notions based on other company's practices? All companies are alike, right?

[MadMonk]

I thought this deserved a separate response. So, State sponsored forced abortions for his Chinese workers are OK........but his American workers voluntarily having medical access to the morning after pill is against his religion.
Why doesnt this guy petition the Chinese government with this nonsense if he gave a damn about his 'highly sought' after Chinese workers.

Did he say that? Do you know whether or not he has worked against this practice or are you talking out your posterior again?

I'm a proud Christian. I just get a kick at how other 'Christians' are so quick to down grade and dismiss another human being rights (human and religious) because they are a different color or speak a different language. I'm pretty sure that's not WWJD.

Congratulations, even though your comparison is completely inane, your holier than thou quotient just went up 10 points. Jesus would be proud.

[Easy180]

I'm sure if something was amiss, she would know by now. But hey, how can long term personal experience compete against your preconceived notions based on other company's practices? All companies are alike, right?

When they sell cheap Chinese goods...Yes

[MadMonk]

Obvious question, if the workers standards are up to the company standard, why are they spending all that time and energy having stuff made in China instead of having it all made in the US? They meant it's up to the company standard for slave labor I suppose.

You DO understand that the standard of living varies between countries, right? Does it mean if I don't make the same as those of similar profession in New York City, I'm working for slave wages?

Which begs some questions...why are they paying people more than the going rate to work for them?

I don't know, maybe to attract better talent?

The only place I found searching for employee satisfaction showed Hobby Lobby score as "dissatisfied" while scores for Walmart, Michaels, Target are "ok". There's not much of a sampling at that site. Perhaps someone else will come up with some better data. But a lot of the comments square with the comments of the only person I know personally who worked for them.

Hobby Lobby Reviews | Glassdoor
^the site at the top of the googler return when you search "hobby lobby employee satisfaction"

Are they a good employer?

Interesting. I've worked in retail businesses before and there isn't much I would consider positive about it either, regardless of employer. Retail geneally sucks and I wouldn't wish that job on anyone.

[WilliamTell]

Pro-tip: Things melt if they get too hot. Hard to beat that whole physics thing isn't it?

Yawn. I guess I will elaborate. The 'high quality' hobby lobby items that i purchased last year were melted together and the other decorations from Target and Biglots were not. I guess being stored in a interior closet inside of a tubberware container with other decorations was not the preferred method of storage for 'high quality' hobby lobby items.

The rest of your post are just deflections away from the actual truth. Go ahead and say it out loud - David Green is responsible for the bondage of Chinese workers and the abortions he requires his workers to get to get to keep there 'highly sought after' jobs that they are so lucky to have. I guess they really do owe Mr. Green their first born (if its a girl).

I'm so glad Mr. Green has taken a stand to protect all of Gods children. So noble.

[MadMonk]

Yawn. I guess I will elaborate. The 'high quality' hobby lobby items that i purchased last year were melted together and the other decorations from Target and Biglots were not. I guess being stored in a interior closet inside of a tubberware container with other decorations was not the preferred method of storage for 'high quality' hobby lobby items.

The rest of your post are just deflections away from the actual truth.

Go ahead and say it outloud - David Green is responsible for the bondage of Chinese workers and the abortions he requires his workers to get to get to keep there 'highly sought after' jobs.

You need some sleep? You keep yawning like you're bored, yet you can't seem to stay away.

What truth are you talking about? My post detailed how you have no experience on this other than with Internet news stories about other companies. If you are stating your opinion based on a guess, fine; but don't pretend to know everything about it and get all whiny when you are called out on it.

I'm basing my opinion on a conversation with a lady who has worked there for many years and is one of the most trustworthy and intelligent women I know. You dismiss her information like it's meaningless and seem to maintain that your uninformed opinion somehow holds more weight. If you don't believe me, well, I don't really care, other than its a little insulting (perhaps intentionally), and there's not much I can do about it; I'm only trying to provide some information from someone who's in the know. If you don't value that you are certainly free to remain willfully ignorant and speaking from your derriere. If you had a similar source of information from someone who's actually involved that refutes what she says, that would be a different matter, but you apparently do not. Show me an article detailing the abuses the Chinese workers experience at the hands of the big Hobby Lobby corporate grist mill and I'll change my opinion on the matter.

LOL at your edited post. I guess DE can put you down as one of the disgruntled former employee contributers to that Glassdoor site.

[boscorama]

When I was on birth control pills it wasn't covered by my insurance, even though I used them for other purposes besides avoiding pregnancy. I just paid for them. JEEZ!

[Midtowner]

I don't consider myself a Christian scholar, but I doubt that Jesus would want someone to go against his deeply held belief that abortion is wrong by providing for the means of performing it.

I don't recall seeing red letters discussing the subject at all.

[Easy180]

When I was on birth control pills it wasn't covered by my insurance, even though I used them for other purposes besides avoiding pregnancy. I just paid for them. JEEZ!

Please be considerate of those who have to choose between paying for birth control pills and a new iPhone 5

[boscorama]

I heard that.

Dang ole Reagan didn't care about me. Waah!

[Pete]

Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight

Published: September 27, 2012

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A coalition of liberal Christian groups has come out against Hobby Lobby's lawsuit challenging federal health care guidelines that require companies to provide insurance that covers the morning-after pill.


Read more: Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight | NewsOK.com

[Dubya61]

Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight

Published: September 27, 2012

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A coalition of liberal Christian groups has come out against Hobby Lobby's lawsuit challenging federal health care guidelines that require companies to provide insurance that covers the morning-after pill.


Read more: Pastors protest Hobby Lobby birth control fight | NewsOK.com

Hey, legal minds on OKC Talk. Help me out here. How can this petition be successful? What effect can the organizers of this petition hope to have on Hobby Lobby or their lawsuit?

[kevinpate]

The petition has no direct bearing on the litigation itself. It's sole purpose would be to hope to influence the decision makers at HL to make a different decision, up to and including dismissing their lawsuit.

That hope and a few bucks will get one an overpriced cup of joe at Starbucks.

[fromdust]

just saw this on Fox.
Hobby Lobby set to argue to block health care law

[Pete]

Judge rules Hobby Lobby must cover employees' contraception

A federal judge ruled the Oklahoma City-based Hobby Lobby and Mardel must follow contraceptive health insurance rules, rejected arguments that those mandates violated the owners' religious beliefs

[Easy180]

Judge rules Hobby Lobby must cover employees' contraception

A federal judge ruled the Oklahoma City-based Hobby Lobby and Mardel must follow contraceptive health insurance rules, rejected arguments that those mandates violated the owners' religious beliefs

Yay...Golf clap for average joes and joesettes

[onthestrip]

Violate their religious beliefs? Eh, debatable.

Im glad it was ruled this way. This would have set a very bad precedent. This would basically make an employee be subjected to the whims of what their employer sees as acceptable or what follows their "morals." Why couldnt the Greens of Hobby Lobby decide tomorrow that they thought antibiotics were immoral and then not have to cover that either?

People always spout that this infringes on their religious freedom but they forget that the employee should also have freedom from their boss' religion.

[venture]

Violate their religious beliefs? Eh, debatable.

Im glad it was ruled this way. This would have set a very bad precedent. This would basically make an employee be subjected to the whims of what their employer sees as acceptable or what follows their "morals." Why couldnt the Greens of Hobby Lobby decide tomorrow that they thought antibiotics were immoral and then not have to cover that either?

People always spout that this infringes on their religious freedom but they forget that the employee should also have freedom from their boss' religion.

Exactly. Reading the comments on NewsOK I am shocked by the support for this decision. The vast majority of huge Green company supporters are saying this is good because this is an effort by the Greens to force their religious beliefs on their employees. They will probably try to appeal this to the SCOTUS, but its just going to cost them a ton of money and get them nothing.

[Dubya61]

People always spout that this infringes on their religious freedom but they forget that the employee should also have freedom from their boss' religion.

I am still against the PPACA in its current version and fully support Hobby Lobby's efforts to not be forced to pay for a medical item that they are opposed to. I think that post-conception birth control is wrong in some people's minds and it's wrong to make that part of the PPACA. Lets not forget that people still have the option to decline an offered benefit from your employer. Hobby Lobby's employees have always had freedom from their boss' religion. All they have to do is say, "no, thank you. I'll go get my own insurance." What if Hobby Lobby offers a 401K, but the only investment opportunity for that 401K is in Phillip Morris stock? Someone who doesn't approve of cigarettes can always say, "No thank you, I'll invest and save for my retirement with my own IRA that invests in businesses I agree with more." Now, however, someone who is vehemently opposed to post-conception birth control is going to have to pay for such a service.