Hobby Lobby business practices

[MadMonk]

Taking the morning after pill is not even close to the same as an abortion.

Please elaborate the difference. I'm not up on the technical details of how each of these methods work, but it seem to me that if its done after conception, that would constitute abortion.

[GaryOKC6]

I can see Mr. Green’s position. He is a Christian that runs a company based on his beliefs. His employees have a right to go get the morning after pill but he should not be forced to pay for it. I am sure that it is not that expensive anyway. It looks to me as though he has been very good to his employees. I have never shopped in a Hobby Lobby but I certainly have to admire his standing up for his beliefs.

[onthestrip]

Please elaborate the difference. I'm not up on the technical details of how each of these methods work, but it seem to me that if its done after conception, that would constitute abortion.

It prevents or delays ovulation thus interfering with fertilization. There is quite a difference between this and an abortion. Conception isnt when you roll over and light up your cigerette

[venture]

+1. . .and I'll probably go twice as often!

So you'll go to Hobby Lobby twice as often because of this? Is that what I'm understanding?

I might agree or differ with a company owner's beliefs, but I'm not going to go out of my way to patronize them more than normal because of something like this. Just like the whole Chick-Fil-A thing. I don't agree with their owner's stance, but I'll still stop by there whenever I'm having an urge for their food. The people that change their own behavior and actions because of something like this are the very definition of "sheep" that the respective power players want to keep under their control.

[adaniel]

I can see Mr. Green’s position. He is a Christian that runs a company based on his beliefs. His employees have a right to go get the morning after pill but he should not be forced to pay for it. I am sure that it is not that expensive anyway. It looks to me as though he has been very good to his employees. I have never shopped in a Hobby Lobby but I certainly have to admire his standing up for his beliefs.

Except when those beliefs are wrong.

He, like a lot of other conservatives, believe the morning-after pill is just an "abortion in a bottle." The morning after pill is just emergency contraception, i,e. a much more powerful birth control pill. It will do nothing to you if you are already pregnant. It is not the same as RU486, which does terminate pregnancies but is highly regulated. You can't even get it at a pharmacy.

If Hobby Lobby is against paying for birth control than it should just come out and say it. Be consistent. They have a right to their views just like everyone else. The fact that they are not just shows that they are just picking a political fight.

Mr. Green and the executives of Hobby Lobby should seriously themselves this: have they succeeded in their goals if an employee of theirs couldn't get proper access to birth control and had to go get a medical abortion?

[Dubya61]

Except when those beliefs are wrong.

He, like a lot of other conservatives, believe the morning-after pill is just an "abortion in a bottle." The morning after pill is just emergency contraception, i,e. a much more powerful birth control pill. It will do nothing to you if you are already pregnant. It is not the same as RU486, which does terminate pregnancies but is highly regulated. You can't even get it at a pharmacy.

Learned something new today. I can go home, now, right?

[RadicalModerate]

It prevents or delays ovulation thus interfering with fertilization. There is quite a difference between this and an abortion. Conception isnt when you roll over and light up your cigerette

But holding a cigarette between one's knees might be an effective form of contraception . . .
(just don't light it . . . or allow any peanuts in the room . . . in the name of health safety, etc.)

Late Breaking News: The parking lot of the Mardel's on the NW Expressway only had about ten cars in it. Either The Boycott or The Rain seems to be working. Or not.---Radical Moderate from one of the fronts in the culture war battlefield. Back to you Metro . . .

[GaryOKC6]

Except when those beliefs are wrong.

He, like a lot of other conservatives, believe the morning-after pill is just an "abortion in a bottle." The morning after pill is just emergency contraception, i,e. a much more powerful birth control pill. It will do nothing to you if you are already pregnant. It is not the same as RU486, which does terminate pregnancies but is highly regulated. You can't even get it at a pharmacy.

If Hobby Lobby is against paying for birth control than it should just come out and say it. Be consistent. They have a right to their views just like everyone else. The fact that they are not just shows that they are just picking a political fight.

Mr. Green and the executives of Hobby Lobby should seriously themselves this: have they succeeded in their goals if an employee of theirs couldn't get proper access to birth control and had to go get a medical abortion?

Who is to say if he is right or wrong it is his company. I gave to admire him for standing behind his beliefs though.

[RadicalModerate]

Who is to say if he is right or wrong it is his company. I gave to admire him for standing behind his beliefs though.

Yes . . . But just for fun, let's take the "Business Owner's Rights" discussion to The Absurd Comparison with . . . oh . . . I dunno . . . a Woolworth's Lunch Counter of The Fabulous '50s . . . for example. "I have a civil right to sit at this counter and have a grilled cheese sandwich, some fries and a Coke. And equal access to Morning After Abortion Pills."

Of course, that flies in the face of the fact that Mr. (and Mrs.) Woolworth didn't build that business.
Fearless Government Leader did.
Now if He could just do something about those pesky flies on the fries.
And those oversized Cokes.

[GaryOKC6]

Yes . . . But just for fun, let's take the "Business Owner's Rights" discussion to The Absurd Comparison with . . . oh . . . I dunno . . . a Woolworth's Lunch Counter of The Fabulous '50s . . . for example. "I have a civil right to sit at this counter and have a grilled cheese sandwich, some fries and a Coke. And equal access to Morning After Abortion Pills."

Of course, that flies in the face of the fact that Mr. (and Mrs.) Woolworth didn't build that business.
Fearless Government Leader did.
Now if He could just do something about those pesky flies on the fries.
And those oversized Cokes.

That is a not a very good comparison. I don’t see how religious freedom has anything to do with racism. It is the same for the Catholic universities. If they don’t believe in paying for birth control then they should not have to. For that same reason you do’t have to shop at Hobby lobby either.

[RadicalModerate]

Did you miss the "just for fun" part? Or intentionally ignore it?
If I were a nun I'd smack you on your knuckles with a ruler.
Then send you to the Principles Office. (Or at least the Vice Principle. =)

But I'm not a nun and I respect your opinion regarding the rights of business owners and not waffling on beliefs as expressed in your text message.

Rather than "right and wrong" . . . or "right and left" . . . perhaps this discussion is more along the lines of Values as compared to Virtues; or Ethics (act) Morals?

[venture]

That is a not a very good comparison. I don’t see how religious freedom has anything to do with racism. It is the same for the Catholic universities. If they don’t believe in paying for birth control then they should not have to. For that same reason you do’t have to shop at Hobby lobby either.

The bigger flaw with the Roman Catholic church is that they just flat out zap all birth control without taking into the understanding that it can be used for things other than pregnancy prevention.

[RadicalModerate]

Point well taken . . .
Yet, isn't the biggest flaw with the Roman Catholic chuch that it is impossible to be Roman and Catholic (universal/all encompassing) at the same time?

[venture]

Point well taken . . .
Yet, isn't the biggest flaw with the Roman Catholic chuch that it is impossible to be Roman and Catholic (universal/all encompassing) at the same time?

You know. You probably contribute to my brain hurting more than any other poster. Advil thanks you! LOL :-)

[RadicalModerate]

Don't expect your employer to pay for it . . . =)

[PennyQuilts]

The bigger flaw with the Roman Catholic church is that they just flat out zap all birth control without taking into the understanding that it can be used for things other than pregnancy prevention.

Actually, this is not accurate - but it often repeated.

[venture]

Actually, this is not accurate - but it often repeated.

By all means point me in the direction to correct my thinking on it.

[stick47]

As to avoid affecting the sensitivities of the fairer sex I'll answer that the Catholic churches approved method of birth control is coitus interruptus.

[PennyQuilts]

By all means point me in the direction to correct my thinking on it.

I don't know if you're catholic but I've taken catholic teaching (didn't convert) and this particular subject was addressed because a lot of people had heard that. It simply isn't true. Moreover, I have many practicing Catholic friends and relatives who have been prescribed birth control pills to control bleeding and/or problems with menstruation with the full knowledge and approval of their priests. That medication primarily used for birth control can't be prescribed or used for other medical conditions is just a myth that keeps being repeated. All you need to do is google it.

[boscorama]

We're not very religious, but purchase office supplies (copier paper and such) at Mardel's in support of their convictions.

Nobody calls us hatemongers, do they?

[venture]

I don't know if you're catholic but I've taken catholic teaching (didn't convert) and this particular subject was addressed because a lot of people had heard that. It simply isn't true. Moreover, I have many practicing Catholic friends and relatives who have been prescribed birth control pills to control bleeding and/or problems with menstruation with the full knowledge and approval of their priests. That medication primarily used for birth control can't be prescribed or used for other medical conditions is just a myth that keeps being repeated. All you need to do is google it.

I am. I to have many family and friends that have had to get prescribed birth control for reasons other than what its name implies. However, I don't really know any that ran to their priest for approval...I guess it depends how they feel morally on it. The part I was getting to was if these Catholic organizations aren't going to pay for birth control, are they blocking paying for it completely or will they have exceptions internally if the doctor prescribes it for something other than birth control.

[mugofbeer]

I have no problem with company (privately owned) ownership that is standing up for principles and government directives it feels directly violates the religious beliefs of the owners. People continue to try to equate these beliefs to a political position but it simply isn't. Those who feel Hobby Lobby ownership is taking some sort of political statement is also wrong. They are simply making the statement that the government requirements in question are illegal and unconstitutional at a time the government requirements are about to go into effect. The Greens are expressing a deeply held position and belief that prevention (and elimination) of life is a moral violation and an offense to their humanity. For government to force a business to violate these principles is not what our country is about. If the people are offended by the position of the company, no one forces the people to buy at that store. There are multiple alternatives. By the same token, to take up the supposed "cause" of women who work there that Hobby Lobby's stance on birth control somehow deprives them of basic health services is also false because birth control isn't expensive and certainly can be free. I doubt there are many women working at Hobby Lobby or Mardel's who don't know what the company ownership is about and who don't have the freedom to find another job if it is a problem for them. Jobs at those retail establishments aren't unique or require special skills. No different than those who might find the actions of Chase Bank or Morgan Stanley offensive - do your business elsewhere.

[Bunty]

We will no longer be shopping at Hobby Lobby.

That is surely easy for the typical guy to boycott, considering all the cheap made in China home decor and plastic stuff they sell.

[bluedogok]

If employees don't agree with the views of the owners then they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

They could be like many small/medium sized businesses and drop health care coverage all together because paying the tax when it goes into effect would more than likely be cheaper.

[Bunty]

+1. . .and I'll probably go twice as often!

Do you also go twice as often now to Chick-fil-a?