Hobby Lobby business practices

[kelroy55]

I'm happy that you're able to use your savings for your personal and pet expenses. That has to be such a relief to your husband.

[Hawk405359]

I'm happy that you're able to use your savings for your personal and pet expenses. That has to be such a relief to your husband.

Dude... seriously? You're going there?

[kelroy55]

Dude... seriously? You're going there?

Going where? I am happy she has the money to be able to buy the things she wants and able to pay for her pets expenses. It would be a relief for me if my other half was able to do that.

[PennyQuilts]

I'm happy that you're able to use your savings for your personal and pet expenses. That has to be such a relief to your husband.

And why not since I worked hard and saved for years so I could afford a home? I keep my expenses down to just about nothing (no vacation other than to visit my kids in over twenty years), don't carry debt and don't take any government assistance? Here's a tip - you do the same and after you've worked, scrimped and saved for about thirty-five years, you might be in a position to do the same. Look, I know what it is like to be poor. I was a teen mom, twice (ended up with three kids) and didn't even start college until I was 23. Worked my butt off, went to law school, educated my kids and they are all lawyers, now and NOT a drag on society. If you are so envious that I have managed to also save enough to pay my paltry personal and pet expenses, I honestly feel sorry for you.

[kelroy55]

And why not since I worked hard and saved for years so I could afford a home? I keep my expenses down to just about nothing (no vacation other than to visit my kids in over twenty years), don't carry debt and don't take any government assistance? Here's a tip - you do the same and after you've worked, scrimped and saved for about thirty-five years, you might be in a position to do the same. Look, I know what it is like to be poor. I was a teen mom, twice (ended up with three kids) and didn't even start college until I was 23. Worked my butt off, went to law school, educated my kids and they are all lawyers, now and NOT a drag on society. If you are so envious that I have managed to also save enough to pay my paltry personal and pet expenses, I honestly feel sorry for you.

Like I said, I'm happy for you. I never said I was envious of you and I applaud you for the hard work you've done. Is that the reason you seem to look down on the less fortunate so much?

[venture]

How has this thread lasted outside of the garbage pit known as Politics?

[Martin]

let's stick to topic and leave the analysis of people's personal lives out of the discussion. -M

[CaptDave]

Hardly a vacuous argument MadMonk. I am not the one attempting to justify violating, or exempting my business from, federal law on religious grounds while simultaneously profiting from doing business with a government who violates those exact convictions that are supposedly the basis of that justification. To answer your question though, yes there are doubtlessly federal and state expenditures I would disagree with, but I do not attempt to reduce my tax payments by a proportional amount. The line is drawn where Hobby Lobby knowingly supports an entity - the Chinese government - that has policies that are also directly in contradiction to their beliefs yet is willing to violate the laws of the United States. Why do they believe in standing on convictions in the US and not in China? The Green family is playing both sides of the same fundamental question - do they, or do they not support abortion in any way, shape, or fashion? It appears the answer depends on geography and economic factors more than beliefs when it comes to their company. I actually agree with their beliefs in more ways than not, but this is a fair question to ask.

[MadMonk]

The line is drawn where Hobby Lobby knowingly supports an entity - the Chinese government - that has policies that are also directly in contradiction to their beliefs yet is willing to violate the laws of the United States.

I hope you don't by gasoline or oil products or you are a terrorist supporter according to that line of thinking. You can't buy many produce items either or you are supporting slave labor condition for illegal aliens.

[CaptDave]

I hope you don't by gasoline or oil products or you are a terrorist supporter according to that line of thinking. You can't buy many produce items either or you are supporting slave labor condition for illegal aliens.

Once again, it is not I that is seeking an exemption from, or openly stating an intent to violate, federal law based on a personal belief. I am not demonstrating selective outrage as is Hobby Lobby.

[MadMonk]

Once again, it is not I that is seeking an exemption from, or openly stating an intent to violate, federal law based on a personal belief. I am not demonstrating selective outrage as is Hobby Lobby.

I can't make it any clearer for you, that the secondary uses of their money that they disagree with and have no control over in no way makes them hypocritical or "selectively outraged".

[MadMonk]

God only knows what people do with their salary they are directly giving to their employees.

See, now you are getting it. That would be indirectly funding your smoking/drinking, etc. That sort of argument is as invalid as the argument against someone dealing with a Chinese company and saying that they fund abortions.

[MadMonk]

I hope no one here is buying insurance from a company that provides coverage to bank robbers. That would be incredibly immoral. That would be like you were stealing.

Exactly. This is the sort of nonsense argument that doesn't work with those who try it with the whole Hobby Lobby/China thing.

[CaptDave]

I find it interesting that Hobby Lobby is basing their position solely on religious conviction, but are conveniently forgetting about the "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" part of the Bible. I think this is a fair question especially when you consider it in the manner in which mkjeeves stated it above.

[PennyQuilts]

I find it interesting that Hobby Lobby is basing their position solely on religious conviction, but are conveniently forgetting about the "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" part of the Bible. I think this is a fair question especially when you consider it in the manner in which mkjeeves stated it above.

Taxes for revenue are one thing. Directly paying for something they find morally offensive is completely different. Render until Caesar was about paying a tax - about revenue. The government is demanding private citizens personally fund a social policy that violates their religious/moral beliefs. Completely different. No one would expect rendering under Caesar to include engaging in behavior that was morally offensive. If they could do that, they could require them to get abortions, cheat on their spouses, eat meat when they are devout vegetarians, smoke, etc.

[CaptDave]

Taxes for revenue are one thing. Directly paying for something they find morally offensive is completely different. Render until Caesar was about paying a tax - about revenue. The government is demanding private citizens personally fund a social policy that violates their religious/moral beliefs. Completely different. No one would expect rendering under Caesar to include engaging in behavior that was morally offensive. If they could do that, they could require them to get abortions, cheat on their spouses, eat meat when they are devout vegetarians, smoke, etc.

This is a prime example of the circular nature of this entire discussion. Everyone who follows the law and pays whatever is legally required of them in some way inevitably supports something they have objections to. We simply do not have the right to selectively reduce the amount they pay or which laws they will follow. Are pacifiata permitted to erduce their tax payments by the portion of the federal budget that goes toward the Department of Defense? I could almost buy the premise of Hobby Lobby accepting the consequences of their actions by paying the fine if they weren't actively marketing themselves as martyrs knowing there is a huge segment of the population that will find a way to assist them in their righteous fight against the evil government. I don't think the Green family are "bad" people or Hobby Lobby is a "bad" company, but the way they have gone about this has a slight hint of hypocrisy.

[Dubya61]

They are not refusing to pay the fine. They are not failing to abide by the "this or that" nature of PPACA. I suspect they are hoping to use the fines as proof that abiding by the law AND their moral compass is ruining their bottom line.

[RadicalModerate]

Sort of like when Henry David T. went to jail for his beliefs regarding some form of taxation and Ralph Waldo E. went to visit him and said, "Henry! What are you doing in here?" to which Henry replied, "What are you NOT doing in here, Ralph?" But that was back when America was still a free country and all . . . (plus it was a paraphrase and I'm not sure how to spell Therou or Emmerssson)

I guess Hank was indirectly accusing Ralph of being a hypocrite, yet Ralph could have said, "Whatdaya mean, 'not in here'? Do I look like I'm outside? You spent way too much time hanging around that friggin' pond . . ." I'd bet that there is a book somewhere on the shelves at HobbyMardel that deals more accurately with this issue. If the Government winds up seizing their assets to satifiy The Fine do you suppose they will be able to figure out a solution to the conundrum of what to do with all of the seditious literature? Can't burn 'em . . . The Carbon Footprint Tax would probably offset any net gains.

And isn't it interesting that, when you get right down to it, this entire "political dilemma" comes down to pairs of individual "homo sapiens" not knowing how or when to keep certain body parts wet or dry.... dang.

[RadicalModerate]

"To Tell The Truth" . . . For The Post-Mayan (calendar fail) Apocolypse . . . or whutever)

I Am A LawBreaker/Fighter


I Am A LawBreaker/Fighter


I Am A LawBreaker/Fighter


Don't Forget About Me . . . (or my motives, including something involving money, including indians the french and stuff) . . .
[Internet Link to Portrait of George Washington on a Stamp, Blocked]

"Will the REAL 'LawBreaker' Please Stand Up . . ."

(so ml/mr "jeeves" . . . is the pantry in acceptable condition . . . ? and quilts properly fluffed, paradigm-wise? or not? =)
(please re-direct your attention to the very first post on this topic--Post #1--and reconsider accordingly. thank you)
(if i'm not mistaken . . . it preceeded/contemporaryized . . . that Aubrey Deal over at Chesapeake . . .)

Hint: Mr. Green is a good guy . . . even if he is "rich" . . .
Note the positive influence of "Hobby Lobby" on the local economy and extended concern for the employees within his care.
or don't. your choice.

[mkjeeves]

"To Tell The Truth"

I Am A LawBreaker/Fighter

I notice Bill Ayers didn't make your short list.

I'm curious, who do you think has more appreciation for civil disobedience, President Obama or Mr. Green?

The left or the right?

The supporters of Hobby Lobby, Inc. or the detractors?

[PennyQuilts]

I notice Bill Ayers didn't make your short list.

I'm curious, who do you think has more appreciation for civil disobedience, President Obama or Mr. Green?

The left or the right?

The supporters of Hobby Lobby, Inc. or the detractors?

If you knew your history, you'd know that the GOP was the party of civil rights. They had to drag the democrats along kicking and screaming. Abolitionists ring a bell?

No question, the right is much more for civil disobedience than the left. The left have turned into lapdogs. Their finest hour was during the Vietnam war protests but they lost their soul since then. IMO.

[Bunty]

If you knew your history, you'd know that the GOP was the party of civil rights. They had to drag the democrats along kicking and screaming. Abolitionists ring a bell?

Then what happened? Around 90% of the blacks voted for Obama. I guess they found Gov. George Wallace not too hard to forgive.

[kelroy55]

Then what happened? Around 90% of the blacks voted for Obama. I guess they found Gov. George Wallace not too hard to forgive.

Must have been that thing he did blocking the doors to a public school to keep out the blacks. Guess he forgot he was the party of civil rights.

[Bunty]

No question, the right is much more for civil disobedience than the left. The left have turned into lapdogs.

Yeah, like in this recent odd court case story: Man gets 30 days in jail for contempt of court » Local News » Stillwater NewsPress

[mkjeeves]