$465 million in aid to Oklahoma includes lightrail!!!

[Architect2010]

Experts for the most part agree that in order for light rail mass transit to work, you need density, with that said, OKC is to large/spread out for light rail to even come close to being successful, with that said, the following is from the latest census:

Albuquerque Pop. 518,277 Land 180 sq. miles
Oklahoma City Pop. 537,000 Land 625 sq. miles

With these numbers, is easy for any one with common sense to see/understand why light rail will not work here.

Nope. Wrong again.

This density argument is getting old. Just because our city has lands extending and spreading out over 625 sq. miles, does not mean that our urbanized center encompasses that whole mass of land.

That's ridiculous. Our urban area is actually very similiar to Albuquerque. We only use roughly 1/3 of our land area for urban development, the rest is rural.

Get that straight.

[soonerguru]

Please tell us, danielf. What are the "powers that be" thinking? Are you invited to the meetings?

The Mayor of Oklahoma City said we will have transit, including rail transit. Does he fit your definition of "power that be," or is he misguided? Perhaps we should have Mayor Cornett and the OKC Chamber get in touch with you to determine OKC's transit future.

And your opinion would be highly relevant, of course, because you are neither an OKC or Oklahoma Country resident, do not pay OKC sales or property taxes, do not vote in OKC municipal elections, and will not be a voter for or against MAPS III.

A serious question: aside from serving as a general annoyance, why do you spend so much time here? Wouldn't your presence be more appropriate on the Norman forum, considering you choose not to be a resident of OKC?

[mcgrawsdad]

Ok...my two cents for what it's worth. I have ridden a train half-way across the U.S. and I have also ridden DART. DART was crowded at rush hour and empty at all other times. I personally do not think light-rail will work in OKC, just my opinion. In order for rail to be successful it must be equal to or better than driving your automobile. That means it must be either faster, significantly cheaper, more convenient, or offer more utility. Since OKC traffic is not that bad even in peak hours, I do not see the train being faster, particularly when you add in the time to walk/drive to the station, stops along the way, depart from destination station, walk to work/dinner, etc. It might possibly be cheaper to ride, but from my past experiences with trains, they really were no cheaper to ride than it was to fly or drive, particularly when you factor in the cost of your time (assuming alternative forms of transportation are faster than the train). Also, in large dense cities, many of those who utilize mass transit do not have alternative forms of transportation, so, this in turn drives down the cost of riding the train. However, in OKC, people would still have their autos even if they rode the train daily for work commute. Therefore they still have to pay insurance, maintenance, cost of vehicle, tags, etc. A train will never offer more utility than your own vehicle, particularly if it is crowded (which is needed to be profitable). If the train is crowded it makes it difficult to read, work, read the paper, etc...so the utility is very limited. I can buy the convenience factor particularly as it relates to a particular site or venue (i.e. downtown, bricktown, warren theatre, etc.). But in order for it to be more convenient there must be quick access to stations.

Again, just my opinion, but I do believe one or more of those factors have to be present in order for light rail to be successful. Of course, mass transit is most often utilized by those whose transportation modes are most limited (poor, elderly, etc.). Nobody wants to ride a train that is being frequented by the underpriveleged.

[OKCisOK4me]

Get that straight.

Nicely played!

[danielf1935]

Please tell us, danielf. What are the "powers that be" thinking? Are you invited to the meetings?

The Mayor of Oklahoma City said we will have transit, including rail transit. Does he fit your definition of "power that be," or is he misguided? Perhaps we should have Mayor Cornett and the OKC Chamber get in touch with you to determine OKC's transit future.

And your opinion would be highly relevant, of course, because you are neither an OKC or Oklahoma Country resident, do not pay OKC sales or property taxes, do not vote in OKC municipal elections, and will not be a voter for or against MAPS III.

A serious question: aside from serving as a general annoyance, why do you spend so much time here? Wouldn't your presence be more appropriate on the Norman forum, considering you choose not to be a resident of OKC?

Where do I start:

Mayor Cornett has never said we will have "light rail". (MASS TRANSIT-YES, LIGHT RAIL-NO)
I have been a member of the OKC Chamber for 17 years and I attend almost, all meetings.
I have/own several property's in OKC, both Commercial and Residential, so I pay more than my fare share of property taxes.
I hire a Rental Management Co, in OKC, my Property Maintenance Co. is in OKC, my Exterminator is in OKC, I buy my cars, groceries, furniture and clothing in OKC, my Barber is in OKC, so I pay my fair share of City Sales Tax.

Despite what some may feel, this is a free Country, as such I will look/read/respond to any blog or thread I please.

And if I happen to be a big annoyance to you, well, that sounds like you have a personal problem!!!!!!!

[danielf1935]

Nope. Wrong again.

This density argument is getting old. Just because our city has lands extending and spreading out over 625 sq. miles, does not mean that our urbanized center encompasses that whole mass of land.

That's ridiculous. Our urban area is actually very similiar to Albuquerque. We only use roughly 1/3 of our land area for urban development, the rest is rural.

Get that straight.

Architect2010, it's OK to disagree, isn't it great to live in a Free Country, call me in a year or two, and let's see who has it STRAIGHT.

[danielf1935]

please tell us, danielf. What are the "powers that be" thinking? Are you invited to the meetings?

The mayor of oklahoma city said we will have transit, including rail transit. Does he fit your definition of "power that be," or is he misguided? Perhaps we should have mayor cornett and the okc chamber get in touch with you to determine okc's transit future.

And your opinion would be highly relevant, of course, because you are neither an okc or oklahoma country resident, do not pay okc sales or property taxes, do not vote in okc municipal elections, and will not be a voter for or against maps iii.

A serious question: Aside from serving as a general annoyance, why do you spend so much time here? Wouldn't your presence be more appropriate on the norman forum, considering you choose not to be a resident of okc?

111

[Superhyper]

In danielf's defense (though I disagree with him on most everything) this is the OKC Metro Area forum, not just the OKC forum....being from Norman includes him (and myself) in that discussion.

[danielf1935]

111

In danielf's defense (though I disagree with him on most everything) this is the OKC Metro Area forum, not just the OKC forum....being from Norman includes him (and myself) in that discussion.

Thanks.
I'm just glad to live in a Country that allows us to openly disagree, and just think how boring it would be if everyone thought the same!!

[Superhyper]

Thanks.
I'm just glad to live in a Country that allows us to openly disagree, and just think how boring it would be if everyone thought the same!!

I couldn't agree more! Take that China!

[sgray]

In danielf's defense (though I disagree with him on most everything) this is the OKC Metro Area forum, not just the OKC forum....being from Norman includes him (and myself) in that discussion.

No one said he was not or could not be part of the discussion. One poster simply made the point that his vote lies in Norman, which is where he told us that he lives. Regardless of what other properties he may own, individuals may only register to vote in one place and their one vote will be valid in that one place. So what soonerguru sais is correct, danielf will not be participating in any OKC votes unless he changes his place of residence to okc and registers to vote here.

Architect2010, it's OK to disagree, isn't it great to live in a Free Country

It is okay to disagree, but you haven't challenged his claims and actually backed them up with facts. Yes it is great to live in a free country. We should start a thread on that subject.

call me in a year or two, and let's see who has it STRAIGHT.

What the heck is this supposed to be?

Where do I start:

Mayor Cornett has never said we will have "light rail". (MASS TRANSIT-YES, LIGHT RAIL-NO)
I have been a member of the OKC Chamber for 17 years and I attend almost, all meetings.
I have/own several property's in OKC, both Commercial and Residential, so I pay more than my fare share of property taxes.
I hire a Rental Management Co, in OKC, my Property Maintenance Co. is in OKC, my Exterminator is in OKC, I buy my cars, groceries, furniture and clothing in OKC, my Barber is in OKC, so I pay my fair share of City Sales Tax.

Despite what some may feel, this is a free Country, as such I will look/read/respond to any blog or thread I please.

And if I happen to be a big annoyance to you, well, that sounds like you have a personal problem!!!!!!!

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention (again). The fixed guideway study already has rail written into it along with bus as well. How could you be so sure that Mick is all of a sudden gonna step up on his soapbox and say that he is going to approve all but the rail portion of the recommendations?

You are welcome to post as you please so long as it is in line with the rules here, but keep in mind that if you expect your posts to carry any weight, they'd better include some pretty strong supporting facts. To-date, they have not.

[danielf1935]

No one said he was not or could not be part of the discussion. One poster simply made the point that his vote lies in Norman, which is where he told us that he lives. Regardless of what other properties he may own, individuals may only register to vote in one place and their one vote will be valid in that one place. So what soonerguru sais is correct, danielf will not be participating in any OKC votes unless he changes his place of residence to okc and registers to vote here.



It is okay to disagree, but you haven't challenged his claims and actually backed them up with facts. Yes it is great to live in a free country. We should start a thread on that subject.



What the heck is this supposed to be?



Perhaps you haven't been paying attention (again). The fixed guideway study already has rail written into it along with bus as well. How could you be so sure that Mick is all of a sudden gonna step up on his soapbox and say that he is going to approve all but the rail portion of the recommendations?

You are welcome to post as you please so long as it is in line with the rules here, but keep in mind that if you expect your posts to carry any weight, they'd better include some pretty strong supporting facts. To-date, they have not.

I may not live in OKC, nor can I vote in OKC, but I will support, work for and promote a MAPS3 when/if, it's offered to the voters.

As for my posts not carrying any weight, that's your opinion, and who are you to tell me my posts "better include strong supporting facts"

Let's get that straight!!!

[sgray]

I may not live in OKC, nor can I vote in OKC, but I will support, work for and promote a MAPS3 when/if, it's offered to the voters.

And you may do just that. No one has said otherwise.

As for my posts not carrying any weight, that's your opinion, and who are you to tell me my posts "better include strong supporting facts"

That's not an opinion, that's your choice, meaning do not be surprised when folks don't take you seriously. In order to carry any weight, your comments would need to include supporting facts.

Because your statements are being presented as fact!!! You are presenting them as fact! I mean, seriously man. Where are your supporting facts? Remember one very important thing: your comments stated not that you don't believe light rail will work, but that light rail will not work here (in okc). That is quite a statement and for such a statement to carry any weight you would have to provide verifiable facts to support it. You could always just say that you don't believe light rail would work here and that would be an opinion. But if you are stating something as fact, it has to be supported otherwise it is yet to be proven.

Others and myself have provided valid facts and references (from actual places not dissimilar to us) supporting the claim that rail will work here.

Let's get that straight!!!

Factor that into your calculations!!!

[danielf1935]

And you may do just that. No one has said otherwise.



That's not an opinion, that's your choice, meaning do not be surprised when folks don't take you seriously. In order to carry any weight, your comments would need to include supporting facts.

Because your statements are being presented as fact!!! You are presenting them as fact! I mean, seriously man. Where are your supporting facts? Remember one very important thing: your comments stated not that you don't believe light rail will work, but that light rail will not work here (in okc). That is quite a statement and for such a statement to carry any weight you would have to provide verifiable facts to support it. You could always just say that you don't believe light rail would work here and that would be an opinion. But if you are stating something as fact, it has to be supported otherwise it is yet to be proven.

Others and myself have provided valid facts and references (from actual places not dissimilar to us) supporting the claim that rail will work here.




Factor that into your calculations!!!

If you don't like my posts, why do you continue to read them and respond, there is an ignore button for a reason. Please ignore anything I post on this thread, I promise, I'm a big boy, I won't loose any sleep, I am a survivor!!

How sad and pathetic!!

[danielf1935]

And you may do just that. No one has said otherwise.



That's not an opinion, that's your choice, meaning do not be surprised when folks don't take you seriously. In order to carry any weight, your comments would need to include supporting facts.

Because your statements are being presented as fact!!! You are presenting them as fact! I mean, seriously man. Where are your supporting facts? Remember one very important thing: your comments stated not that you don't believe light rail will work, but that light rail will not work here (in okc). That is quite a statement and for such a statement to carry any weight you would have to provide verifiable facts to support it. You could always just say that you don't believe light rail would work here and that would be an opinion. But if you are stating something as fact, it has to be supported otherwise it is yet to be proven.

Others and myself have provided valid facts and references (from actual places not dissimilar to us) supporting the claim that rail will work here.




Factor that into your calculations!!!

I forgot one thing, Have a Wonderful Day

[Architect2010]

Architect2010, it's OK to disagree, isn't it great to live in a Free Country, call me in a year or two, and let's see who has it STRAIGHT.

Yeah. I agree. Free County. Wewt.

But unless our city is going to suddenly engulf the remaining 2/3 of our land area, then I don't know what you mean by, "let's see who has it STRAIGHT."

I'm not worried.

[blangtang]

i read the odot press release from yesterday, but it didn't break down the $39 million for urban and rural transit systems. anyone seen where it is broken down? an aside, the odot webpage is atrocious.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsm...us_funding.pdf

[sgray]

If you don't like my posts, why do you continue to read them and respond, there is an ignore button for a reason. Please ignore anything I post on this thread, I promise, I'm a big boy, I won't loose any sleep, I am a survivor!!

How sad and pathetic!!

I never posted anything about liking or disliking your posts, therefore my claim to you not paying attention holds true.

Understand that this is a public forum for discussion. Anything posted on here is subject to criticism and debate and is openly viewable by all.

The last 7 POSTS you've made to this thread have had nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Perhaps we should ask the moderaters if it is necessary for us to ignore posts that are off-topic and not posted in the correct thread.

Please follow the rules and post on the topic. Thanks.

[danielf1935]

I never posted anything about liking or disliking your posts, therefore my claim to you not paying attention holds true.

Understand that this is a public forum for discussion. Anything posted on here is subject to criticism and debate and is openly viewable by all.

The last 7 POSTS you've made to this thread have had nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Perhaps we should ask the moderaters if it is necessary for us to ignore posts that are off-topic and not posted in the correct thread.

Please follow the rules and post on the topic. Thanks.

You forgot to say How wonderful and terrific you are, that you never wrong and all of your posts have nothing but the FACTS.

[sgray]

i read the odot press release from yesterday, but it didn't break down the $39 million for urban and rural transit systems. anyone seen where it is broken down? an aside, the odot webpage is atrocious.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsm...us_funding.pdf

My understanding was that $4 million of OK's package, if approved, would go to the MWC project. Have you heard of any other transit projects in the metro area? I'm pretty sure that is the only one we had for our area. I see the $39 million that you mentioned as well. Who knows, maybe they got something else in there at the last minute. Of course, at $39 million for the whole state, there couldn't have been much more for just OKC.

Yeah, digging for data on the ODOT site is a lot of fun.

[Karried]

Let's refrain from personal attacks and discuss the topic at hand.

[soonerguru]

Nobody wants to ride a train that is being frequented by the underpriveleged.

What is this supposed to mean? Maybe this is the way people in Oklahoma City feel, but I see people utilizing public transit from all socioeconomic groups when I visit other cities.

Are OKC people more snobby toward the poor? I really don't think so, at least I hope that's not the case.

[soonerguru]

Actually, danielf, Mayor Cornett said the city will have mass transit, including some rail transit, in MAPS III. It wasn't much specified beyond that.

[danielf1935]

[deleted by admin]

[Superhyper]

What is this supposed to mean? Maybe this is the way people in Oklahoma City feel, but I see people utilizing public transit from all socioeconomic groups when I visit other cities.

Are OKC people more snobby toward the poor? I really don't think so, at least I hope that's not the case.

That's been my experience as well. I found it kind of amusing that one of the OKC news stations did a piece that was basically them being amazed that middle and upper class people were riding the bus during the high gas prices of the summer. I guess they expected to get on and see a slum...I wish I could find the video