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Thread: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

  1. #1

    Default Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs


  2. #2

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    One thing that is misleading about the assumption that downtown is leading the suburbs in office absorption is that in the suburbs they are still adding addtional square footage of new office space to the market via new construction while downtown is taking office space out of the market by converting office space to alternative uses. Nothing wrong with the report but the suburban office market is still more attractive to most users than downtown based on the amount of product being brought to the market. I'm a big supporter of downtown so I am looking forward to more and more people relocating to downtown. More office, retail and living. We have made alot of progress and I want the momentum to continue.

  3. Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    Until either the C of OKC or a private investor does something about the lack of affordable monthly parking, I can't see an expansion of office use in downtown happening anytime soon.

    With Devon buying the west garage of the "Galleria" parking facility, CBD parking will be scarcer and likely more expensive than ever. I love downtown OKC and have worked there for 25 years, but parking costs definitely bite my small budget.
    Unions - the folks who brought you weekends!
    Proud Army Veteran's Mom

  4. #4

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    Just a question, I truly don't know the answer and am not trying to make any kind of "point" with this question.

    I hear so much discussion about parking on these threads. What is the average monthly cost to park in Downtown OKC?

    In St. Louis, the garages range from $80 to $120 per month. I pay $95 a month for my garage. We all complain about it, but we chalk it up to a "cost of doing business." When my office was in the suburbs, the parking was free, but then, I was leaving at lunch every day so probably paying more in gas.

    I guess the question eventually becomes: what does it take for the benefit of working downtown (and walking to restaurants and other lunchtime service providers) outweigh the negative of parking costs?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    My other question about the "convenience" of the suburbs revolves around "Who is it convenient for?" If your office is on Memorial Road, that is obviously "convenient" for workers who live in Edmond or NW OKC, but that is less "convenient" for someone from the South Side than a downtown location would be. OKC is fortunate that downtown is in the geographic center of the metro area and can draw equally from a work force across the area. That would seem to be a benefit to downtown.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    It's different though when you have a metro where the north side and the south side don't interact as much as you'd think. People who live up north could care less about the south side.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    Spartan, Unfortunately I know from growing up there that you're right. People in Moore think Edmond is the other end of the planet, and vice versa. That is the case in lots of places, though, not unique to OKC.

    Still, I would think that if I were a big business owner and I was looking for the most talented people to help grow my business, I would want to take advantage of potential workers that may live anywhere in my area. Maybe the talent is in Norman, maybe it is in Deer Creek. Why not try to position yourself in the middle?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    My other question about the "convenience" of the suburbs revolves around "Who is it convenient for?"
    My question would actually be "in what way is it more convenient at all"?

    Edmond and Memorial Avenue are the most inconvenient places in the city, imo. Traffic, sprawl, and layout are all the worst in the metro. I avoid it like the plague and every time I have to go up there I am instantly reminded why I don't go there. It takes forever to get from one place to another and you have no other option but to drive, even if where you need to go is just a couple hundred yards away.

    I don't see any upside to it at all, honestly. I don't really even buy the parking advantage.

    One thing that is misleading about the assumption that downtown is leading the suburbs in office absorption is that in the suburbs they are still adding addtional square footage of new office space to the market via new construction while downtown is taking office space out of the market by converting office space to alternative uses.
    I thought that's exactly what absorption measured. I took the point as that as the suburbs have overbuilt, downtown, along with its advantages in amenities, has begun to appreciate faster.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    Quote Originally Posted by stlokc View Post
    Spartan, Unfortunately I know from growing up there that you're right. People in Moore think Edmond is the other end of the planet, and vice versa. That is the case in lots of places, though, not unique to OKC.
    The southside may not have much of a business community honestly, but those people do have a strong community identity that hearkens back to just after the Land Run. I don't think the southside has ever felt really connected to what's north of the Oklahoma River, including downtown. As for people that live up north, they just don't have any reason to come down to the southside.

    Ask any southsider what they think of the north side: "That's them north town drivers for you, and the roads are hectic, people are crazy, you can never find your way, and it's so far north."

  10. Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    I've never noticed north v. south weirdness.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    I agree with Cuatro., and I have lived on both sides of the river. I don't think Spartan knows what he is talking about.

    "The southside may not have much of a business community honestly, but those people do have a strong community identity that hearkens back to just after the Land Run."

    And what does he mean "those people".

  12. #12

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    By "those people" I mean a lot of families that have lived around Capitol Hill for many generations. I have some elderly family around there who have probably been to Branson more often than they've been to the north side in their life. Trust me, these people don't know what Penn Square is besides that we all talk about going there (it could be a bar for all they know). To someone who lives around Grand and Walker, SW 134th Street is closer than downtown.

    North OKC doesn't even touch the southside, since there's a pretty wide belt of blight that separate the two. I've been hoping for a long time that longer-range plans for C2S (longer than the core-to-shore build out) could include something for the old Capitol Hill main street and also a link to old Stockyards City. The main street is Commerce (25th St) but 24th Street could feature a canal that feeds back into the Oklahoma River..cause some newer development across Western from Grant's airpark redevelopment site. Make it feel more like one city.

    I'm just being perceptive. That doesn't mean logical.

  13. Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    Quote Originally Posted by stlokc View Post
    Just a question, I truly don't know the answer and am not trying to make any kind of "point" with this question.

    I hear so much discussion about parking on these threads. What is the average monthly cost to park in Downtown OKC?

    In St. Louis, the garages range from $80 to $120 per month. I pay $95 a month for my garage. We all complain about it, but we chalk it up to a "cost of doing business." When my office was in the suburbs, the parking was free, but then, I was leaving at lunch every day so probably paying more in gas.

    I guess the question eventually becomes: what does it take for the benefit of working downtown (and walking to restaurants and other lunchtime service providers) outweigh the negative of parking costs?

    I pay $100 a month and bring my lunch every day. We have 30 minutes for lunch and, unless you hit Subway or Quiznos, it's just not do-able. As far as other service providers - other than the Post Office substation, there's not that much in the CBD. Waxing nostalgic - when I first started to work downtown, in 1983, we walked the "Conncourse" every day. You could grab lunch, visit a reasonably-priced clothing store or get a shoe repaired. Our office was in the Federal Courthouse, so access to the underground was simple.

    I love the idea of C2S and the services that will be available with the Devon building, but OKC needs to start planning now for the influx of traffic, downtown workers, parking and congestion. Run the trolleys as true shuttles from parking lots on the outskirts into the CBD and BT, and run them on schedule, like a business, with publicized stops and routes.

    If OKC wants to be treated like a big city, then we need to act like one, not like a bunch of provincial hicks that crane our collective necks to look at the pretty big buildings. Put cops on foot patrol so walkers can be safe. Clean up the areas next to the interstate and make the entrances into downtown attractive. This isn't rocket science, it's good business.

    { /rant}
    Unions - the folks who brought you weekends!
    Proud Army Veteran's Mom

  14. #14

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri101 View Post
    If OKC wants to be treated like a big city, then we need to act like one, not like a bunch of provincial hicks that crane our collective necks to look at the pretty big buildings. Put cops on foot patrol so walkers can be safe. Clean up the areas next to the interstate and make the entrances into downtown attractive. This isn't rocket science, it's good business.{ /rant}

  15. #15

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    I grew up on the North Side and raised my kids in Bethany. Honestly, I never went south of the river unless it was to a softball game - there was never any reason to. It was like the city stopped at the river.

    That being said, later in life I married a southside boy and it really opened my eyes, big time. There definitely is a sense of community on the southside that I never saw up north. And the roots go way deep. I am not sure the southside still has the same sense of community because I am not living there at the moment. But there sure are a lot of fond memories and loyalty.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Dowtown OKC office market outpacing suburbs

    The north side is different because it's more prosperous and exciting. Anybody who comes to OKC is going to live up on the north side. Southside is OKC's unique rootsy area, just like Southside Pittsburgh (which is why I refer to OKC's as Southside and not the south side) because of how deep the sense of community is. There are even some decent historic neighborhoods with larger houses than the shotgun shacks most people associate the Southside with. It's just a part of the city that not a lot of people go into very much.

    It's also an area where a lot of the state's Latinos live. These are some of the most community-oriented and family-oriented people on the Earth. They make a great addition to the community in my opinion, and contrary to popular opinion, they have brought a LOT of new life back into the Capitol Hill area by fixing up old houses and buildings that were vacant and derelict when they first got here.

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