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Thread: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

  1. #1

    Default Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I bring this up because my wife and I were down there checking out the area, was excited about all that is going on. These seem to be doing ok:

    Block 42 (at least 15/31 sold)
    Brownstones (most sold and being finished off)
    Brownstone Lofts (35/54 sold)
    Harvey Lofts (11/13 sold) and
    The Centennial (Sold out completely)

    Carnegie Center doesn't concern me too much because the owner has stated that they need something like 50% presold in order to start construction, but the $300/ sq foot seems a little high.

    The ones that concern me are the Central Avenue Villas (9/30 sold) and The Hill (not sure about the amount sold, but the pricing seems very high.)

    I just think there is too much construction going on down there right now and there is such thing as too much development where the market becomes too saturated.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Yeah, we went a long time not having any condos to having a bunch of projects. Now I hear there is a need for apartments downtown again. I have a lot of friends that are looking and there aren't as many options as you would think.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I've been pessimistic about The Hill since the day it was proposed.

    Too suburban in style, not mixed use, expensive, etc.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they go the rental route.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    OKC should be big enough to handle these and more.

    Austin, TX is about the same size and has MULTIPLE high rise condo developments just finished and in construction. They are going for between $300 and $600 per foot and are selling quickly. OKC can surely handle what is being finished and more.

    Just wish we would do a high rise tower with flats instead of all the multi-floor units. This would encourage the older buyers (50-65) who earn more but don't want to be climbing stairs. Plus, a nice high-rise address would carry more prestige to them than these more yuppie developments.

  5. Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I love to see the development. But I think that much of the low-rise development is not a wise use of valuable space. It does not provide the density needed for the downtown core. They could possibly lower the price per square foot a little if they'd build a little taller (more units per SF of land). My opinion is that the low-rise stuff belongs in the suburbs.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    The Hill when it was opened during the downtown housing tour last spring really came off has having much more liveable floor plans than several of the other properties. No it's not high style urban design... but the floor plans do allow for those "upscale" older market owners to be able to adapt to downtown living. I don't believe they have even really started trying to market the property yet either. My understanding is they have decided to wait to push the marketing till there is a block of finished units.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I bet we see some new rental projects on the table, especially with cost of construction coming down.

    Also, I wonder if the Carnegie would be in a position to lower prices since materials costs should be dropping with the plunge in commodities, I would think.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I also think The Hill has totally underutilized its property. Imagine how great a 9-10 story, hell even 6 story building would be on that perch. It would offer commanding views of downtown, towards the river, and all of Bricktown. A taller condo building, sitting on high ground already, would literally and figuratively stand out from the other housing complexes resulting, meaning they probably would sell more units.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    OKC should be big enough to handle these and more.

    Austin, TX is about the same size and has MULTIPLE high rise condo developments just finished and in construction. They are going for between $300 and $600 per foot and are selling quickly. OKC can surely handle what is being finished and more.
    We had a few complete last year, some that were already under construction or had construction financing in place before the credit collapse are still under construction. We have had a bunch of them put "on hold" (the most famous words in architecture/construction in this town right now) and some have given up their development rights on properties so they have quit on those projects completely.

    Many of the unoccupied units "pre-sold" quickly but many have had trouble getting their final mortgage financing so they have gone back on the market.

    The Milago, The Shore, 360 are the ones that I know of that were condo towers that are finished and occupied. The Monarch is a rental and is completed. The Austonian is under construction. A few others have started but I am not sure which ones.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    We had a few complete last year, some that were already under construction or had construction financing in place before the credit collapse are still under construction. We have had a bunch of them put "on hold" (the most famous words in architecture/construction in this town right now) and some have given up their development rights on properties so they have quit on those projects completely.

    Many of the unoccupied units "pre-sold" quickly but many have had trouble getting their final mortgage financing so they have gone back on the market.

    The Milago, The Shore, 360 are the ones that I know of that were condo towers that are finished and occupied. The Monarch is a rental and is completed. The Austonian is under construction. A few others have started but I am not sure which ones.
    I found this on Austinist , I think, how many of these projects are now on hold?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Someone mentioned that they felt that $300 a sq. ft was too expensive for downtown living. It was noted that Austin had several highrise condo;s completed and sold. If you study the figures on the properties listed they all sold for over $300 a sq, ft. Also study construction cost for a high rise property and you will find it cost considerably more per sq. foot to develop than a low rise project. I do agree that I feel the hill did not do the best job of using the resources that where at that location. Why did they in fact remove the hill that was there. It was a prime location that could have taken advantage of the views. But alas our developers take the easy ways....or it is forced on them by the bankers.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Quote Originally Posted by southernskye View Post
    I found this on Austinist , I think, how many of these projects are now on hold?
    I know some have been significantly changed, that poster is dated January 5, 2009 and some news has come out since then. I am pretty sure that AMOA/21C Museum Place has been canceled, Hotel Van Zandt has been and I think the second Novarre project (Ovation) has been. Here's a site that seems fairly current, AustinTowers.net.

    Quote Originally Posted by khook View Post
    But alas our developers take the easy ways....or it is forced on them by the bankers.
    I can attest to the fact that it is usually both. Down here (Austin) it depends on the area, the more you head out to the Hill Country there is less tolerance of cleaning all the trees off and making a site as flat as possible, which seemed to be the norm for OKC projects that I worked on. Most of the time it is cheaper to clean/scrape than it is to try and build around "obstacles" like hills and trees

  13. #13

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I went and walked around the Hill a little today. It's a glorified apartment complex or suburban subdivision made to look like brownstones. Even with my limited knowledge on the subject it's painfully obvious that this is terrible urban design.

    If sales don't pick up, I wonder if they'll take their lumps and scrap the other phases. Maybe the neighborhood would be better off in that case as others could come in and build some mixed use around it.

    To temper this negative sentiment a bit I want to make it clear that I really like the majority of the other downtown housing projects. Seems like a lot of my posts haven't been too positive lately

  14. #14

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Quote Originally Posted by wsucougz View Post
    I went and walked around the Hill a little today. It's a glorified apartment complex or suburban subdivision made to look like brownstones. Even with my limited knowledge on the subject it's painfully obvious that this is terrible urban design.

    If sales don't pick up, I wonder if they'll take their lumps and scrap the other phases. Maybe the neighborhood would be better off in that case as others could come in and build some mixed use around it.

    To temper this negative sentiment a bit I want to make it clear that I really like the majority of the other downtown housing projects. Seems like a lot of my posts haven't been too positive lately
    Wishful dreaming, but unfortunately I doubt that is the case. I know people personally who have already bought in Phases 2 and 3. Now I suppose the developer could refund the deposits, etc., but I've heard Phase I is almost sold out so I imagine Phase 2 will be starting soon. I agree it's poor urban design and was clearly not the best proposal for the site (I was at the Urban Renewal meetings when the decided and were proposed).

    Oh and to the poster above who says they didn't market, they did, they even had/have a sales office in Deep Deuce just around the corner. They marketed fairly well before construction for quite some time, sales slacked off (no surprise), so they decided to close their formal sales office until after Phase I. I imagine we'll see it back open as soon as sales pick up or the economy rebounds. I personally wish McDermid's group got picked for this site, they had a much nicer and denser mixed-use development planned.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Are the Brownstones really sold out? I drove by there last night and it doesn't look like any of them are occupied. No cars, no people, and no lights on in any of them. Kind reminded me of an abandoned movie set.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I dont think anyone said they are sold out and I don't think Phase I is finished yet. I heard moveins are slated for around March.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    I dont think anyone said they are sold out and I don't think Phase I is finished yet. I heard moveins are slated for around March.
    I said at the first post that I think most are sold and being finished off. I maybe wrong in this assumption, but I have heard that the construction is done, most were purchased but the finishing touches (i.e. kitchen, bathrooms, flooring specifics, etc) are being taken care of at this time. I don't have any insider info, that is just what I have gotten from the board and several other people on it.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I'm buying one of the Maywood Park townhouses, and I know some are sold, but not how many. Mine is being finished out right now, as is another one. Some are already finished and are being sold completed, and some are still just framed on the inside and you can customize them. That's how I bought mine, and I added and moved walls, which was a nice thing to be able to do.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I think some people are mixed up with the names of developments. The Brownstones are the Brownstones at Maywood Park, these are not almost sold out from my understanding, only a few of them. Someone else was calling the Hill (Brownstone like), but not true brownstones and these have more buyers from what I understand.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Based on the sold signs, it only looks like 2 of the Brownstones at Maywood Park have sold. There was another sold sign that has been replaced with a for sale sign. Maybe these aren't indicative of the actual sales, but appear to be.

    I'm truly amazed that the Hill is selling as well as you say.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    I meant to say that the townhomes at Maywood Park, the ones that were completed about 6 months ago, do not seem to have anybody living in them.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    OKC should be big enough to handle these and more.

    Austin, TX is about the same size and has MULTIPLE high rise condo developments just finished and in construction. They are going for between $300 and $600 per foot and are selling quickly. OKC can surely handle what is being finished and more.

    Just wish we would do a high rise tower with flats instead of all the multi-floor units. This would encourage the older buyers (50-65) who earn more but don't want to be climbing stairs. Plus, a nice high-rise address would carry more prestige to them than these more yuppie developments.
    I think It's a little premature to compare Austin's downtown with ours. Austin's downtown is fairly dense, we're not htere yet and I do worry about who can afford $300+/sq ft.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    Its way premature to compare our DT with Austins. Doesnt matter if we are same size cities either, what matters is the job market and income levels. And we dont come close to Austin in those regards. Im gonna guess the market here for 300/ft condos is very small, probably a tough sell here in OKC.

  24. Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    It would probably be better to look at downtown housing prices in Tulsa, Little Rock, Des Moines, Omaha...

  25. #25

    Default Re: Do any of the housing projects concern you?

    The thread title makes it seem like we're talking about the "projects", OKC doesn't really have any "projects." I'm not concerned about any of the newer downtown developments though.

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