Hill, The

[CCOKC]

How many units have actually sold in the Hill? How would you justify changing the projects to people that are already living there?

[Spartan]

Well the exhibited extraordinary brain damage by purchasing one of the units in the first place.

[jbrown84]

I didn't think anyone had moved in...

[soonerguru]

How many units have actually sold in the Hill? How would you justify changing the projects to people that are already living there?

I don't believe they've sold a single unit. They hadn't the last time I checked.

[okclee]

When does OCURA step up and say that they made a huge mistake?

Then divide this area up again and let other developers create new and refreshing designs for THE HILL.

THE HILL just screams for a high rise residential tower that is price point in the mid range for downtown living.

[onthestrip]

When does OCURA step up and say that they made a huge mistake?

Then divide this area up again and let other developers create new and refreshing designs for THE HILL.

THE HILL just screams for a high rise residential tower that is price point in the mid range for downtown living.

I pretty much agree. Just put something there that will fully utilize the awesome views over Bricktown and Dowtown.

[soonerguru]

I'm not convinced that's the best location for a highrise, but just about anything would be preferable to the Hill.

[jbrown84]

I'm not convinced that's the best location for a highrise, but just about anything would be preferable to the Hill.

Second.

[Spartan]

I think given the calamity that it presents from a site plan perspective, it's going to be impossible to get something that is "urban smart" out of the site. But now that I've thought about it a little more, maybe we could just move Bass Pro behind The Hill?

Realistically, a big box retailer could go behind there and it would have great visibility and it wouldn't hurt a neighborhood or anything. I would still much prefer Whole Foods, any big boxes, or hell even Wal-Mart, to go right on the street in an urban format but sometimes if the big box isn't Whole Foods that's too much to ask for. I've seen some excellent urban Wal-Marts, like one I went to in Atlanta two years ago..it was actually a nice experience.

But if we absolutely HAVE to have any more suburban big boxes in downtown, just stick it behind The Hill..

[fuzzytoad]

I think given the calamity that it presents from a site plan perspective, it's going to be impossible to get something that is "urban smart" out of the site. But now that I've thought about it a little more, maybe we could just move Bass Pro behind The Hill?

Realistically, a big box retailer could go behind there and it would have great visibility and it wouldn't hurt a neighborhood or anything. I would still much prefer Whole Foods, any big boxes, or hell even Wal-Mart, to go right on the street in an urban format but sometimes if the big box isn't Whole Foods that's too much to ask for. I've seen some excellent urban Wal-Marts, like one I went to in Atlanta two years ago..it was actually a nice experience.

But if we absolutely HAVE to have any more suburban big boxes in downtown, just stick it behind The Hill..

Almost sounds like an ideal site for a Mass Transit Hub. It would probably drive down property values for residential owners, but if nobody's willing to pay to live there...

[Spartan]

Except that there's no transit infrastructure behind The Hill besides a freeway, which is not exactly the interface we're trying to connect with other passenger transit services.

[Pete]

I'm so furious about this entire situation I can't even form coherent thoughts about what to do about it.

[Spartan]

We can all understand that, Pete. It's just a ginormous case of "I told you so" that we all wish we weren't in. It's not that we love to say "I told you so," in fact we would all rather have been wrong about what a disaster The Hill was going to be.

[fuzzytoad]

Except that there's no transit infrastructure behind The Hill besides a freeway, which is not exactly the interface we're trying to connect with other passenger transit services.

then build it from scratch!! You people want a fully integrated transit system.. That means putting it where it will connect people who use the existing system.. The one that nobody even uses now..

It won't interrupt current transit.. nobody's living there. The "other passenger transit services" are non-existent.. nobody effing uses the downtown buses now.. a Streetcar isn't going to magically make them appear and start riding them..

You've already made it clear that you aren't willing to centralize it with the high-usage areas... You've made it clear that you aren't willing to build the new system where people DO use the current system in heavy numbers.. You might as well build it in a still-centralized area that is unpopulated to the point where current housing plans are failing miserably and link it in the future to areas that desperately need mass transit..

At least you'll have plenty of empty street-level spaces to build all this new private business that will cater to the Streetcar riders..

[Pete]

I just had a profoundly depressing thought...

To the scoffs of many, I once compared The Hill to Sycamore Square, an urban development cluster from the word go. But of course the latter has proven to be infinitely more successful. How incredibly sad is that?

Sadder still is that SS was designed and built around 30 years ago and OCURA has seemed to learn nothing, especially when you look at what ended up filling the rest of the Sycamore Square property after waiting almost three decades (The Legacy).


Pardon me while I go look at the Devon renderings... I need a pick-me-up.

[wsucougz]

I think given the calamity that it presents from a site plan perspective, it's going to be impossible to get something that is "urban smart" out of the site

I disagree. It's still a great location and could easily be integrated into a deep deuce masterplan with all sorts of opportunities for nooks and crannies and whatnot.

For the record, has OCURA ever made the RIGHT decision?

[soonerguru]

then build it from scratch!! You people want a fully integrated transit system.. That means putting it where it will connect people who use the existing system.. The one that nobody even uses now..

It won't interrupt current transit.. nobody's living there. The "other passenger transit services" are non-existent.. nobody effing uses the downtown buses now.. a Streetcar isn't going to magically make them appear and start riding them..

You've already made it clear that you aren't willing to centralize it with the high-usage areas... You've made it clear that you aren't willing to build the new system where people DO use the current system in heavy numbers.. You might as well build it in a still-centralized area that is unpopulated to the point where current housing plans are failing miserably and link it in the future to areas that desperately need mass transit..

At least you'll have plenty of empty street-level spaces to build all this new private business that will cater to the Streetcar riders..

I think you're being sarcastic, right? It's a terrible location for a transit hub.

[Popsy]

I took fuzzy toad's sarcasm as being very astute, as to the assumptions being made in this forum.

[soonerguru]

I took fuzzy toad's sarcasm as being very astute, as to the assumptions being made in this forum.

So you're implying the suggestions made in this thread are asinine? I disagree.

[Pete]

Here's an aerial of the property with the proposed site plan

[fuzzytoad]

I think you're being sarcastic, right? It's a terrible location for a transit hub.

Really? More terrible than the other proposed locations that currently have the same Zero Mass Transit utilization?

Nobody is in The Hill. It's not being utilized. It is relatively central to the city. Contruction there is deadlocked.

This is supposed to be about building up business and residence and population where none currently exisits in areas where it should.

According to all of you, Downtown is thriving. And the initial incarnation of OKC mass transit is only the first step.. What sense does it make to place it where there's an already thriving commercial population if you refuse to put it where Mass Transit is already proven to be used?

If you want to put it in a dead transit zone, then put it in a dead transit zone that needs a private industry boost.

Don't stick it where it will only serve a few elite residents who've already shown they won't use mass transit.

[Popsy]

No. Not this thread, but threads that deal with public transportation. I believe the street car system is going to be a hard sell and it will take a long time and expansion of the system to be effective.

[Urbanized]

I think grade separations in that area would preclude transit hub development; at least one involving rail. It's not called The Hill for nothing.

The amount of space still undeveloped would open the door to some interesting alternate possibilities IMO. You have to actually drive around the site to grasp how much land is there. That said, streets, retaining walls and much mechanical infrastructure has been completed throughout the entire development. If someone decided to switch (development model) horses in midstream, the most cost-effective way of doing it would probably involve sticking with the basic layout and re-working the product. It could be done.

[Spartan]

No. Not this thread, but threads that deal with public transportation. I believe the street car system is going to be a hard sell and it will take a long time and expansion of the system to be effective.

We already sold it. 54% - 46%.

[wsucougz]

I believe the street car system is going to be a hard sell and it will take a long time and expansion of the system to be effective.

I believe that the streetcar system is probably the only for-sure bet in the entire maps 3.