New street signs for the Asian District

[Joe Schmoe]

This week I noticed new red signs atop the street markers on Classen between 23rd & I think, 39th.

I like the way the City is developing the concept of districts and the Asian District in my neighborhood is growing quite nicely. I would like to see them build big markers like they have outside Chinatown in San Francisco. I know, it seems that the majority of the City's Asian pop is Vietnamese, but some large gold Chinese dragons would be cool, or maybe foo dogs.

It was interesting to me to find out that the Chinatown concept & Chinese postcard architechture in SF are not organic, but calculated by an asian enterpenuer.

Does anyone know about plans for more identification of districts in the City? I guess I need to email my buddy in the planning ofice to see what's up.

[HOT ROD]

I remember they were discussing a gate entrance on Classen just south of 23rd, plus the lightposts (it is great to see them installed), and Chinatown themed amenities like phone booths, bus benches/shelters, and community banners.

Dont worry about the ethnicity issue for Oklahoma City's asian district. Vietnamese follow many of the traditions that Chinese have and their cultures are almost identical. In fact, most asian cultures are very similar to Chinese - as it is often considered the mother culture ( the Chinese Characters, cuisine, religions and superstitions, and so on were the basis for most of the asian continent). It is even argued, that most Mongol peoples could be traced to the original Chinese (mongol is technical way of saying Asian genus).

So in a nutshell, Chinese-Vietnamese-Japanese-Korean all came about because of national pride but culture began from the Chinese. So most asians have no issue with Chinatown's in America; as they all celebrate Lunar New Year, Moon Festival, and other traditional Chinese observations.

I think it is great that OKC has a large Asian community. I know Viet is the number 1 by far, but I think we have some 10,000 Chinese (China, Hong Kongese, and Taiwanese), 4,000 Japanese, and sizable numbers of Korean, filipino, and Thai as well.

I know this as my fiance is Taiwanese and for the most part, they are Chinese with the exception of national distinction. Yes, Taiwanese dialect is a little bit different than Mandarin and the cuisine is not as fancy as the Chinese (Szechuan, Hunan, Shangainese, Peking/Mandarin, Cantonese, so on ..) but Taiwanese follow the same traditional holidays (just not the Communist China ones). So does Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean. Thai, Malaysian, and filipino are a little different because of colonialization from the west or religion (Muslim is big there!!!) which tend to supress traditional Chinese observance as pagan.

Most Asians are happy to go to Chinatown as really, Chinatowns are really Asiatowns. Just like ours is named, Asian District. And I am glad we have ours and hope it will continue to grow and be a major part of our new renaissance!

[Joe Schmoe]

My children & I have always enjoyed the cheap ability of going to an exotic place where no one is speaking English, just by going to the corner market.

If you close your eyes while waiting in line at the Cao Nguyen Market, you can be transported halfway around the globe.

Then go a few blocks south to sixteenth street & eat down home Preruvian dinners at the little mom & pop cafe in the Plaza.

Cascading fireworks & dragon dances during Chinese new year, remembering to say "hola" to my neighbors.

That's the stuff that makes me love my little home in the CDB.

(The Mexican custom of putting the clothesline in the front yard I'm not crazy about,) but all in all, I love the concentrated ethnicity of families pursuing the American dream.

Oh yeah, & ask the government on the Mainland if they consider Taiwan to be Chinese or not...

[HOT ROD]

You know PRC considers Taiwan to be a renegade Chinese province, but we all know better! Over 90% of Taiwanese are Han Chinese but Taiwan is a separate entity. They just need to stand-up and declare independence (just like the US did against GB, and most other new countries have done). There are many countries with an ethnic majority that predates back to a mother nation but the country is still different. Yes there is one China and it is PRC. Taiwan is Taiwan. (ok enough political rambling).

I agree with you about the enjoyment of ethnic enclaves. They help add to the cosmopolitan amenities OKC (and other large cities) has to offer. Yes, it is great to see and hear the wonders of the world right in our front yard. True, many customs are strange (like the clothesline issue you spoke of) but hey, that is what makes the world go around! And I am very happy that OKC has a slice of the world!

Hopefully, it will get bigger!

[mranderson]

I have no problem with markers similar to other major cities to mark the ethnic areas.

I find similarities in Oklahoma City with Los Angeles. They have a serious gang problem, we have a serious gang problem (one of the worst). They have their city seal on their black and white patrol cars, we have our city seal on our black and whit patrol cars. There are other examples. So, why not place signs with the name of the ethnicity of the area.

The other side of the coin... Caucasiontown?

[Joe Schmoe]

"The other side of the coin... Caucasiontown? "

Uh... that would be Nichols Hills...

[Patrick]

Hey Joe Schmoe......I definitely agree with you! I wish we had a better entrance to our Asian District. And the Urban Design commission, or whatever it's called, should require that any new buildings or renovations in that area are Asian in appearance! I'd like for that area to become a true little Asian village! Your idea of having gold dragons at the entrances rocks! Maybe next to the Gold Dome a Japanese Pagoda Garden could be built! Wouldn't that be fun! And if the city plans on installing new lighting in the area, it needs to look Asian, and not just be the same old typical historic-appearing lamp posts.

A real Asian Market Place would be nice somewhere down there as well.

[GrandMaMa]

You know PRC considers Taiwan to be a renegade Chinese province, but we all know better! Over 90% of Taiwanese are Han Chinese but Taiwan is a separate entity. They just need to stand-up and declare independence (just like the US did against GB, and most other new countries have done). There are many countries with an ethnic majority that predates back to a mother nation but the country is still different. Yes there is one China and it is PRC. Taiwan is Taiwan. (ok enough political rambling).

I agree with you about the enjoyment of ethnic enclaves. They help add to the cosmopolitan amenities OKC (and other large cities) has to offer. Yes, it is great to see and hear the wonders of the world right in our front yard. True, many customs are strange (like the clothesline issue you spoke of) but hey, that is what makes the world go around! And I am very happy that OKC has a slice of the world!

Hopefully, it will get bigger!

This is definitely the other side of the coin when it comes to assimilation into the American culture. What do we really want? Out of one side our our mouths (include me in this) we say, "If you want to become part of our country, learn the customs, learn the language, don't make us spend extra dollars for police, medical personell, educators, etc who can speak God knows how many languages and dialects and print textbooks in your language and, above all, print out voting ballots in a lanuage that is different than what is spoken in the country in which you wish to vote." and out of the other side of our mouths come this dialog that I have just been reading. I could have been the one writing it and feeling quite comfortable with what I was saying. Are we not sending mixed messages to those of ethnicity? Is there a happy medium that affords both and how are we goin to reach it? Yes, there are many Mom and Pop businesses, especially in these ethnic districts that pay taxes, but there are many who don't, who make their money and return to their homeland to live off the American dollars. I'm not posting to inflame, I am just encouraging us, myself included to decide what we really want. There are Asian, Mexican, Indian (Native)& Black colleges and awards and scholarships, awarded just because the color of one's skin...I haven't seen one that you have to be Caucasion to receive...that would be a big NO No, wouldn't it? Don't you think that when those "little pushes" are offerred, it is saying: "We know that you can't do it on your own, so here, we will help you." "Either by your ethnicity or your IQ or your background, we know that you can't make it without a handout." I would love to hear other's comments.

[Pete]

http://www.asiandistrictokc.com/

[GrandMaMa]

http://www.asiandistrictokc.com/

What if it said, "Caucasian district"? Again, is this what we really want? And, if so, don't you think that those different ethnic groups have an obligation to help fund the extra funds that it requires to accommodate the "special ethnic differences"?

[floater]

What if it said, "Caucasian district"? Again, is this what we really want? And, if so, don't you think that those different ethnic groups have an obligation to help fund the extra funds that it requires to accommodate the "special ethnic differences"?

If you had a "Caucasian District", it would be the rest of the city other than the other cultural districts. Let's separate the wheat from the chaff: assimilation and learning English are one thing; creating this district is another. It not meant to segregate people or make them function as if they never left. It is a cultural place meant to give flavor to OKC and recognize the entrepreneurship which was lacking in the area before. It shows that OKC is a real city with diverse people, more than the hayseed image the rest of the country pegs to Oklahoma. People visiting OK for the first time discover that it's much more than they thought it was. Believe it or not, some people actually like experiencing other cultures. It increases visitor opportunities, giving them more options to spend. That's a return that is much larger than the funds you think the city is wasting.

[GrandMaMa]

If you had a "Caucasian District", it would be the rest of the city other than the other cultural districts. Let's separate the wheat from the chaff: assimilation and learning English are one thing; creating this district is another. It not meant to segregate people or make them function as if they never left. It is a cultural place meant to give flavor to OKC and recognize the entrepreneurship which was lacking in the area before. It shows that OKC is a real city with diverse people, more than the hayseed image the rest of the country pegs to Oklahoma. People visiting OK for the first time discover that it's much more than they thought it was. Believe it or not, some people actually like experiencing other cultures. It increases visitor opportunities, giving them more options to spend. That's a return that is much larger than the funds you think the city is wasting.

By wasting, are you referring to the added expense of simply having those of another culture, language, etc added to the mix? Yes, it does add to the cost, but that was not what I was particularly referring to. Yes, I appreciate the diversity of several cultures, no, I don't appreciate having to pay extra when it comes to education, from pre K to College..yes, now the US is formulating new scholarships for those of immigrants, legal and/or illegal for higher education, when children who were born here are saddled with 50 to $80,000 debt by the time that they graduate college. Do you think that is fair? Do you think that being able to display ethnic differences in our country is worth that?

[floater]

GMM, you are talking about two separate things. The Asian district is a city effort to boost urban life. The issue about minority scholarships is different altogether.

[GrandMaMa]

GMM, you are talking about two separate things. The Asian district is a city effort to boost urban life. The issue about minority scholarships is different altogether.

Is it? Oh, I get it! Celebrate the differences when it lines the pocket book and adds color to the city...seems to me like putting lipstick on a pig, and I don't mean that literally. If that's all it meant, it would be great, but it isn't all it means. It also means all that I mentioned before, and paying the bill for it. Again, remember that I thought that I knew where I stood as well, but now, I don't know just how compatible what I thought I thought and what I think now is.

[John]

Every other city has a 'Chinatown', ours is a little more inclusive.

[windowphobe]

This area was wasting away before the influx of Vietnamese and other Pacific Rim folk, starting in the middle 1970s; they built it back to respectability.

Don't believe me? Believe Tom Waken, who's been dealing in properties in this area for decades. He sent this to the Mid-City Advocate a couple of years ago:

The Asian business people staked out Classen Blvd. in 1975.... they are responsible for bringing Classen from a dying area to a place where business is thriving and property owners and business owners are paying more taxes into the city's treasury than they were previously.

I am for any ethnic group who will build up our great city to proudly display their own district with their signs. It is good for everyone who lives in Oklahoma City.

All the original Asian District signage, incidentally, was paid for by the businesses therein themselves.

[Pete]

We also have special signage for historical areas like Heritage Hills and various other public improvements for neighborhoods.

And America has never been about fully assimilating... If that was the case, we'd all have adopted the culture of Native Americans. Each ethnic group brings something unique and that helps the American culture continue to evolve.

I love the fact OKC has a unique Asian district full of restaurants, shops and businesses. It seems Capitol Hill is becoming the Hispanic area and I'd like to see that more fully developed as well.

There are lots of benefits that have already been noted, but also it's in these types of areas you get some great, reasonable, family-run authentic restaurants and OKC has a real dearth of those compared to other cities of it's size.

[GrandMaMa]

We also have special signage for historical areas like Heritage Hills and various other public improvements for neighborhoods.

And America has never been about fully assimilating... If that was the case, we'd all have adopted the culture of Native Americans. Each ethnic group brings something unique and that helps the American culture continue to evolve.

I love the fact OKC has a unique Asian district full of restaurants, shops and businesses. It seems Capitol Hill is becoming the Hispanic area and I'd like to see that more fully developed as well.

There are lots of benefits that have already been noted, but also it's in these types of areas you get some great, reasonable, family-run authentic restaurants and OKC has a real dearth of those compared to other cities of it's size.

It appears that I have done a poor job of expressing myself, as no one has addressed the point that I was attempting to make. I never said that the area has not been revived, quite the contrary. I never said that America has ever been or will be about "fully assimilating", keyword, "FULLY". I'm not talking about losing their culture, I am however, referring to those that don't wish to assimilate to the point that they are not a direct burden on the economy, local, state and federal. There is a middle of the road, and some don't seem to want to find it. Why? Because they don't have to. Because there are too many people that think that all US citizens have an obligation to pave the way, so that those of ethnicity can refrain from changing one iota. All people of the US are immigrants, of one time or the other. The Indian did not just sprout up out of the Oklahoma soil, as you surely know.

[rocket60s]

I agree with GMM. I'm also "Too old NOT to care".

I couldn't believe what I was reading on this post.

Joe Schmoe LOVES going to the corner store where no one is speaking English?????

You guys need to watch what you wish for. BTW, what cultural districts do you live in?? Malibu??

Malibu believes the Capitol Hill hispanic area needs to be more fully developed. What about the residents & businesses that have called this area home for decades? This site mentions the gang problem & rise in crime in the area. I'm sure you'd feel different about it if it were your immediate neighorhood. There are alot of businesses & churches that have signs only in Spanish and it is spreading far past Capitol Hill. One business displayed a metal sign in English. It read "Mexican Parking Only".

Oh, and "Caucasian District"? That will come with "Miss White Oklahoma".

[plmccordj]

Any plans to do this with the even more well defined Mexican South side? Just curious. I live on the South side and it is very Mexican from SE 15th to 44th and from High to near Penn. Not a complaint, just an observation.

[GrandMaMa]

I agree with GMM. I'm also "Too old NOT to care".

I couldn't believe what I was reading on this post.

Joe Schmoe LOVES going to the corner store where no one is speaking English?????

You guys need to watch what you wish for. BTW, what cultural districts do you live in?? Malibu??

Malibu believes the Capitol Hill hispanic area needs to be more fully developed. What about the residents & businesses that have called this area home for decades? This site mentions the gang problem & rise in crime in the area. I'm sure you'd feel different about it if it were your immediate neighorhood. There are alot of businesses & churches that have signs only in Spanish and it is spreading far past Capitol Hill. One business displayed a metal sign in English. It read "Mexican Parking Only".

Oh, and "Caucasian District"? That will come with "Miss White Oklahoma".

Thank you for your comment, I was beginning to think that I was "too old to think", as well.

[GrandMaMa]

duplicate post

[Kerry]

I just left my meeting of the National Association for the Advancement of White People and we are thinking about donating money to the United Caucasion College Fund. I would like to post more but I have to go to a meeting of the Suburban League. We have a big vote tonight on trying get a National White History Month. John Kerry is going to come pander to us so I better get there early.

I understand what you are saing Grandma, although it dosn't seem anyone else does.

[GrandMaMa]

I just left my meeting of the National Association for the Advancement of White People and we are thinking about donating money to the United Caucasion College Fund. I would like to post more but I have to go a meeting of the Suburban League. We have a big vote tonight on trying get a National White History Month. John Kerry is going to come pander to us so I better get there early.

I understand what you are saing Grandma, although it dosn't seem anyone else does.

Thank you, Kerry...and by the way, your post was a hoot!

[rxis]

Just to make things clear. Asians are not classified as part of the minoriy when it comes to financial aid. Minority scholarships usually means anyone but asians.

I believe it was somewhat settled several years ago that the only other language the gov't really provides for is Spanish, like for driving license tests.

Also, do you guys think the Asians who shop there really care for the city to build up signs and stuff?

"business people staked out Classen Blvd. in 1975.... they are responsible for bringing Classen from a dying area to a place where business is thriving and property owners and business owners are paying more taxes into the city's treasury than they were previously."

Thats typically how ethnic neighborhoods get started.