DHS steals,abuses & kills children

[Midtowner]

You say that they are doing this for personal gain, but your only evidence is that they and everyone else in DHS got a $1,000 bonus check in 2004 for something which is only tangentially related to the problem you're referring to.

As for the pamphlet, do you have a link? Does the pamphlet cite to credible sources?

[Dana]

I am not the one who brought up the $1,000 bonus that was someone else I only talked about the Adoption bonus for the state from the Federal Government that could be where the $1,000 came from but I do not know that for a fact so I can't say that for sure. I only talk about what I can prove. Ok here is the link I hope I did this right if not I have a copy of it on my computer.
[PDF] A Carrot Among the SticksFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
A Carrot Among the. Sticks. The Adoption. Incentive Bonus. Cornerstone Consulting Group, Inc ... Among other things, the legislation places renewed emphasis ...
cornerstone.to/images/carrot.pdf

[Dana]

I think I did that wrong try this.
http://cornerstone.to/images/carrot.pdf

[Midtowner]

The 'bonus' is paid to the state, not the caseworker. What makes you think that the caseworker has any individualized incentive to place children with adoptive families rather than return them to their biological parents?

The real smoking gun here is missing.

Numbers which might be interesting to look at would be the percentage of kids returned to their own families versus those adopted out to non-relatives.

[Dana]

I decided to give a few links to check out pay attention to how the media said that they had to go to court just to be able to air these stories because DHS didn't want them aired.

YouTube - More CPS Corruption...

YouTube - Child Protective System Part 1 - Video - WLKY Louisville

YouTube - Mass CPS corruption P2

YouTube - Forgotten Children

YouTube - Death of a foster child part1

[angel27]

ECO - first - when this mother relinquished her rights, she still had a court-appointed atty. She relinquished against the advise of the judge and her atty at the time. Yes, she was persuaded by the case worker to relinquish as if it was a different circumstance than if CPS terminated her rights. She was able to pay an atty, that the judge mentioned was a good atty, later with her tax return money. I can produce the judge and 2nd atty in this case, I would have to look in my records to see if I have the case worker's name.

I just went through a case wherein everyone (I can produce names of caseworkers) told a mother that if she relinquished her rights to her 4 children, they (CPS) wouldn't interfere with the baby she was carrying when she was born -and that her old case would not matter to her new baby. So this mother, unwillingly, relinquished so she could at least parent her baby. We were able to get her into a good place and she was not homeless and had everything she needed to care for her baby. CPS came in & took the baby. They said it was because she had not corrected the conditions (hadn't completed the classes of her old case). You know, why didn't they say that to her. They didn't think she could get it together I guess. This woman had passed all drug tests administered by her doctor during her pregnancy. They couldn't even give her a reason for taking her baby when they did. And in neither of these cases nor any I have been involved in did anything horrible happen to any of these children. These are mothers who love and want their children. Most often the children were taken on neglect charges. A mother gets sick and can't get up to clean the house for a few days. Someone is mad at her and here come CPS. Most often they are poor, lack reliable transportation and -well- any number of complications can apply with their efforts to meet their Service plan. Reports get lost, she thinks she completed the class the agency says she didn't.

Dana, whenever we encounter a positive drug test by SOS or others and we know that it shouldn't be positive, we send clients to CRG (who performs SOS tests) and request a hair follicle. I think those are most reliable, go back 3 months or more and can't be affected by the sometimes mystical diluted status. I can think of one very close doting mother and precious child that were saved by that move and are out from under DHS radar today, but it took some years and a lot of set backs.

We can't prove anything on this thread. My motive is to get this information out there. Very often I feel like I'm the only one in this City that provides support to mothers in this system. Everyone else is against her, and very and most often her atty does not care. I know everyone is overworked with too big a case load. But that in itself says this can't be fair or right. The mother-child bond is supposed to be the most important factor to the health of a child - and we disrupt that for what? It used to take a village to raise a child. Then all of a sudden about 8-10 yrs ago the village was mandated to report any suspician that the mother wasn't perfect. And this is what we've got. A new mother falls alseep with her baby and that bond is forever altered.

What if we left unharmed children with their moms. What if we offered her all of that education and support without depriving the child of its family? Wouldn't that be in the better interest of everyone. With all the money being spent it just seems its being spent in a counterproductive way. And I believe that these children are the ones who suffer most from this system. What if we formed a support group so that we could mentor and shepherd these mothers through this system in hope of reuniting every and all families that could be made better and stronger. What if we came together with DHS and the courts and judges and said what other possible system is there than seperating this family and we all came up with a plan? How much better would that be. I can't help but think it can be done. Or maybe I'm just dreamin.

[Dana]

In the case I am referring to the judge has seen both tests and knows that the first one was doctored but refuses to do anything. It is not a point of knowing that laws were and still are being broken. The point is DHS is a government entity and nobody will stop them even when it has been proven that they broke the law. They have unrestrained power to do whatever and whenever they want. Plus people refuse to see the writing on the wall because they don't want to or they just can't believe these things really happen. Some even after it hits them like a pie in the face still refuse to believe it is easier to just ignore it afterall it is not their children that DHS has decided to focus on. DHS is the new Hitler of the century and in time when their quotas will get so high, and they have to keep looking for new babies they are going to pick the wrong person that will have the money, power and whatever else they need to blow the lid off of this. Then some of these people are going to remember they were told. Some may even say I didn't know this was going on how did this happen? Now how long it takes for DHS to pick that wrong child who knows. I do hope that the 2 class action law suits against DHS may do some good we shall see. Funny that the law firms that are doing these cases are not even in Oklahoma County and 1 of them I know for a fact is in New York. It is an unwritten law you don't F**K with DHS in Oklahoma because if you do they will come after your children, your job, and anything else they can do to shut you up. They don't want people to know what they are doing and will do anything to keep people quiet. Gee it sounds like I am talking about the mob but that can't be right it is the government.

[Dana]

Obviously I am not the only one who knows how corrupt DHS somebody else posted something along the same lines. Here is the thread Header.

Childrens Rights File Class Action Lawsuit on behalf of Oklahoma's Children
this thread has 33 replies and has been viewed 1114 times

[W. Moore]

East Coast Okie,

So you really aren't speaking to the situation in Ok. but your perspective of how it works where your at. You said your licensed here but don't practice here, are you a lawyer or a psychologist? Does the DHS where you're at use clinical psychologist to make the "diagnosis" of "nuts" you applied in blanket coverage to parents with kids in foster care and many involved with the system in other ways. You appear uninformed about Ok. in general and assume things work here as they supposedly do where you're at. Adoption incentives are a matter of public record and knowledge. Federal adoption incentives are paid to the states. The issue of incentives to workers is based on a state program. Things considered are, time employed, continuing education, and performance. One of the ways state DHS's are evaluated by the feds is "outcome". That would be outcome of the permanency plan, and if that plan included adoption (which many do because of concurrent planning for permanency, having plan b in place in case plan a fails.) then I guess those could be said to be adoption incentives couldn't they? And as far as workers go isn't there always incentive to do what the boss wants? You stated, "The evidence needed to remove a child from the home is relatively low", probable cause of "immanent danger", (death, injury) is what the 10th.Cir. said is required for emergency temporary removal, otherwise it's a 4th Amendment violation. (Roskas case, appealed from Utah I think)
Back to Ok. As you said Ok. is putting standards in place for GAL's. They now have a manual which all GALs are required to read and agree to. But in Ok. there are two types of GAL. One is a CASA worker,(by CASA's estimates they're involved in about 25-30% of Juvenile Deprived cases in the Tulsa area. More often the child's lawyer acts as both GAL and legal representation. What is your professional opinion of that? The OBA has not adopted the standards of practice for representation of children in these cases put out by the ABA, what is your opinion of that?
You said,"As a rule, the training the DHS workers get is excellent". In Ok. "child welfare specialist" are not required to be licensed social workers and most often they're not. In Ok. a B.A. degree in any field and 5 weeks of training, some of it on the job is all it takes. And due to other licensing exemptions most working in the Ok. system and it's contractors practice in areas they're not certified in and would not be allowed to in the private sector.
You mentioned the Kelsey Briggs case, were you aware the judge in that case was removed/left the bench due to that case and later wrote a book to try to tell "his side of the story"? Have you read the official state report on Kelsey's death? Kelsey's law resulted from that case and it was touted as DHS reform when in fact it speaks more to Juvenile Court procedures.
In the class action lawsuit filed by children's rights org one of the causes of action is that children are not receiving legal representation. This is also confirmed by the 2007 ABA report on the OKC. Juvenile Court, and has been testified about in the legislative hearings going on here regarding DHS. So if children aren't getting to see their lawyers and most of the time the lawyer is the GAL my guess would be they're doing neither job. Which could help explain how so many children are dying either in foster care or in their home after a failed or faked investigation such as in the Taylor case recently in Tulsa. If there was proper oversight of the child's situation and investigation by the child's GAL and lawyer like is supposed to be done then maybe more of these "mistakes" by under qualified workers would be discovered before the child dies.
You act as if corruption is out of the question, to know Ok. at all and not consider corruption more likely than not being involved in any part of the government is very naive.
There are many problems and questions regarding DHS/Juvenile Courts in Ok., many more than can be explained away by the high number of "nuts" or otherwise unfit parents overloading the system as you seem to indicate is the problem.

[jacodenn]

DHS Bonuses

Shawnee News-Star 2005/11/25

It was announced recently that 7,400 employees of the Department of Human Services each would be receiving $1,000 bonuses. This money is being doled out to the DHS by the federal government with an additional sum to be used for other DHS needs.

There are several things that are disturbing about this. ... This is public money, funded by the taxpayers, and should be based on performance rather than an across-the-board raise.

It appears there is simply no accountability with this award. It seems to indicate that all DHS employees are performing at equal levels. It's hard to imagine that is true in any organization or business, public or private, and remember that DHS has 7,400 who are receiving this. Logically, it would make more sense to recognize those employees whose performance levels are higher and who excel in their jobs to be given more than the $1,000 if they are deemed worthy of it. At the same time, those who are not meeting expected performance levels should receive less with the understanding that to receive the $1,000 bonus or more they must achieve certain standards.

This argument for difference levels in bonus awards really comes to light, we believe, in several instances of confirmed child abuse and child neglect cases that have received considerable medial attention. We are not at all convinced that DHS employees couldn't have done much more to have saved these children from the suffering they sustained, even death in at least a couple of cases. The most recent one deals with Kelsey Shelton Smith Briggs, little 2 1/2-year-old Meeker girl who died Oct. 11. While some DHS officials aren't yet ready to say that the system failed Kelsey or possibly some of the other children in recent years, something isn't right. If the system is operating like it should be, these children wouldn't continue to be injured and in the extreme cases like Kelsey and Precious Doe in Muskogee die.

We've reviewed what the DHS has sent out to the media and the little information provided is pathetic. More about what took place from January of this year should be made public. ... Frankly, we are appalled that some DHS employees, who will be awarded a $1,000 bonus, didn't do much more to prevent her death along with the death and injuries to other children across the state. We question their level of performance as people continue to ponder what happened to Kelsey and these other children.

Shawnee News-Star

[jacodenn]

Published April 28, 2008 10:22 pm – Muskogee Phoenix
Adoption success earns OKDHS incentive payment

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration on Children, Youth and Families awarded the Oklahoma Department of Human Services an adoption incentive payment of more than $600,000 for finding new, permanent families for Oklahoma children leaving foster care.

For federal fiscal year 2007, OKDHS finalized 1,250 foster care adoptions, 86 more than the baseline set in 2006. OKDHS also finalized 591 special needs adoptions, an increase of 144. Each foster child adoption above the baseline earned the state $4,000; each child under the age of 9 with special needs earned the state $2,000.

Information: OKDHS.org - Adoption Success Earns OKDHS Federal Incentive Payment

[PennyQuilts]

I'm aware of what you are reporting in your post although don't agree with all your conclusions. You can't build an individual case just because there are problems in the system. There are always problems in the system, especially when they serve a largely dysfunctional population. I didn't say they were all nuts so please don't put words in my mouth. A lot of them haven't handled their lives well, however. And many are mentally ill or have substance abuse issues. The healthiest ones, if you ask me, tend to be the ones who engaged in "excessive discipline," i.e., just a parent who overdid it but isn't really mean or trying to hurt a child. Usually their motives are the opposite. I am not sure it is really fair to lump that group in with the others. Some of them are the angriest but at least their anger is rational.

Most of the states have been in the process of reviewing children's rights to attorneys or gals for the past fifteen or more years. Some are further in the process than others. Some have encouraged it but then cut back.

I am not acting as if corruption is out of the question. What I will say is that claims of corruption, even when it doesn't exist, are standard fare for paranoid, mentally ill parents. Dealing with people who are out of touch with reality make it difficult for workers who ARE trying to do their jobs to want to stay in place - thus leading to turnover which causes problems with training and work performance. I already said that leads to problems. I wish we had a never ending supply of fresh workers to keep up morale. I am skeptical of many foster homes - they aren't paid enough to make it worth their while unless they are saints or have ulterior motives.

People on the outside constantly want to attack the system, wholesale, because no one likes an agency that goes in and gets into people's business. As long as no child is harmed, they get criticism for being nosy and oppressive. As soon as they "don't do their job," and a child gets hurt, they are criticized for being lax. They are a punching bag that few stand up for and applaud when they go in and assist a child or a family. And since they have to be confidential, they can't exploit the cases that work or when families are assisted.

Go back and post the statistics of how many families, annually, are served. The focus is always on the ones where the families are unhappy because DHS can't go to the press. It skews the perception and people want to pile on because there is no upside to defending an agency that is not in a position where it can publicly defend itself. No one wants to see a child hurt. To imply that workers at DHS don't care, or the courts don't care, is unwarrented. Even someone who screws up doesn't want a child harmed.

If you could change the job requirements - what would you change them to? Okay. And after that, how are you going to recruit workers for the salaries available? It is what it is.

You seem quite informed. Could you post for the thread how much it costs to place a child in residential care? How much it costs for counseling, especially home based counseling, per child? per family? Most people have absolutely no idea the mind boggling expense involved with providing services to needy families.

My professional opinion is that serving as defense counsel and GAL is a bad idea - too many conflicts.

While I was writing you posted the information about adoption incentives. There have been a number of posters who are trying to tie that to individual adoptions to the workers and even used the ridiculous term, bounty. Some have even suggested the judges got a cut. WHen you start going down that road, there is really no point in even trying to have a discussion.

You really need to go back and read about what adoption subsidies are and how they are distributed. It is not the way some have been trying to suggest. And moreover, could someone please tell me what is wrong with finding permanent homes for special needs children? Isn't that a good thing?

[jacodenn]

What is going on at OKDHS?

I guess we will have to wait until the lawsuit filed by the Children's Right Council (CRC) and the investigation by Oklahoma lawmaker, Rep. Morrisette (sp) have concluded before we have a clearer picture of what is going on?

[Dana]

I have no problem with finding permanent homes for the children that need it. What I was saying is that they took a perfectly healthy child out of a home where it lived with it's mother and grandmother. The grandmother is a law abiding citizen, no criminal history ever, never even had a traffic ticket, went to work everyday. She has her own home that is paid for. The mother lives with the grandmother no criminal history no drugs etc. The worker has a criminal history and a currant warrant for her arrest and her reasons for taking the child are strictly personal. She didn't take him because he was in danger even the police told her that but still they have him and nobody can stop her. Now do you see something wrong with this picture? The grandmother works in the legal field and knew they were breaking the law so she started asking questions. The worker found out and went to her boss and now she doesn't have a job anymore. So you see you can't tell me that this worker is not corrupt and won't retaliate just like I said some do. The worker is lying and is getting the judge to go along with her he wouldn't even do anything when he saw the doctored drug test. So you see because I am seeing this stuff first hand nobody will ever convince me that she is not corrupt besides her criminal record speaks for itself. Plus since she works for the government she can do whatever she wants and nobody can stop her. In my opinion that is a dangerous position to put someone like her in. According to their own pamphlet the child should have gone to the grandmother as kinship placement and since the grandmother is still buying the diapers and the formula I don't see why not. According to DHS it is not any of her business then why is she still taking care of the babies needs?

[OKCMallen]

I didn't even make it through this entire thread, but I will say this: implying that judges are receiving innappropriate financial kickbacks for making certain decisions is a serious, serious allegation. You don't just toss that around; that's like saying "rape" in a fraternity house.

[Dana]

I didn't even make it through this entire thread, but I will say this: implying that judges are receiving innappropriate financial kickbacks for making certain decisions is a serious, serious allegation. You don't just toss that around; that's like saying "rape" in a fraternity house.

All I said was that the judge saw both tests and did nothing I didn't say why he did nothing only he knows the answer to that question. It does make me wonder why when I have proven they doctored a test he decided to do nothing.

[OKCMallen]

I am not sure how much of the bonus money the judges get. I do know that the state of Oklahoma got $28 million dollars last year for adoptions, and I have to ask myself I wonder how many of those adoptions were really legal.

just seems like you're implying the judge are doing something wrong, that's all.

[Dana]

just seems like you're implying the judge are doing something wrong, that's all.

Well what would you call it when you look at proof that a drug test was doctored and do nothing? Also I did some checking and it was East Coast Okie who said in her post that she had people tell her that judges were getting part of the kick back money. She didn't say who told her that she just posted it on her post. I myself do not know for a fact that the judges get any of the money it has been implied but I don't know it for a fact so therefore I can not say for sure that they get any of it.

[PennyQuilts]

and it was East Coast Okie who said in her post that she had people tell her that judges were getting part of the kick back money. She didn't say who told her that she just posted it on her post. I myself do not know for a fact that the judges get any of the money it has been implied but I don't know it for a fact so therefore I can not say for sure that they get any of it.

Er - no, I never said that, never implied it, am offended that anyone else would suggest such a thing absent solid proof. The notion of judges getting kickbacks on such things is ludicrous.

[Karried]

I think the best thing to do is to try to get a different case worker if at all possible.

You tried to go over her head and that probably made her mad and the situation much worse for you.

I mentioned this before, this is a horrible predicament to be in...yes, it's sad that you have to grant these people so much power and control and if they abuse it, you have little recourse.. but the bottom line is you have to swallow your pride and do what you have to do to get this baby back home with you.


I wonder if you took your case to an instructor or professor at a law school and asked them to review it (maybe a class project/discussion ?) and see if you might be able to get anywhere with instructors or attorneys that might be able to help you. Just a thought...

I'd try every avenue available to get assistance, short of making them even more mad, but first things first, I'd request another caseworker and shift the focus from the legal travesty that you feel has occurred to doing whatever it takes to get your grandson back.

Does your caseworker have a plan of action, parenting classes you or your daughter can take, objectives to be met before they give him back?

Can you take all the classes and become a certified foster parent and possibly get temporary custody of him? (or does your past experience prevent that?)

Or are they pretty much just saying ' we have him, you can't ever get him back?'

Nearly all of the DHS workers I've ever met and I've met a lot of them...all had the children's best interests at heart, but I also noticed that they also were very compassionate to the plight of the parents once they realized the parents wanted their children back and were willing to work toward that goal.

The first thing I would do if it were me is to ask the question ' Please, what is it that I can do to get him back? Just advise me on what steps to take to get him back so I can do it ' and then go do it.

Good luck

[OKCMallen]

Well what would you call it when you look at proof that a drug test was doctored and do nothing? Also I did some checking and it was East Coast Okie who said in her post that she had people tell her that judges were getting part of the kick back money. She didn't say who told her that she just posted it on her post. I myself do not know for a fact that the judges get any of the money it has been implied but I don't know it for a fact so therefore I can not say for sure that they get any of it.

Well, first of all, allow me to say I don't take anonymous messageboard posters at their word. Nothing personal- I've foudn that people misunderstand things quite often in this medium, and it's even moreso when the law is involved.

If you really think the judge did something completely unlawful, you need to talk to the Oklahoma bar or appeal the case through the proper channels. Oteherwise, it hink it's one of those unforunate STFU and GBTW things. Haphazardly accusing judges of corruption isn't something one should take lightly.

[Dana]

I think the best thing to do is to try to get a different case worker if at all possible.

You tried to go over her head and that probably made her mad and the situation much worse for you.

I mentioned this before, this is a horrible predicament to be in...yes, it's sad that you have to grant these people so much power and control and if they abuse it, you have little recourse.. but the bottom line is you have to swallow your pride and do what you have to do to get this baby back home with you.


I wonder if you took your case to an instructor or professor at a law school and asked them to review it (maybe a class project/discussion ?) and see if you might be able to get anywhere with instructors or attorneys that might be able to help you. Just a thought...

I'd try every avenue available to get assistance, short of making them even more mad, but first things first, I'd request another caseworker and shift the focus from the legal travesty that you feel has occurred to doing whatever it takes to get your grandson back.

Does your caseworker have a plan of action, parenting classes you or your daughter can take, objectives to be met before they give him back?

Can you take all the classes and become a certified foster parent and possibly get temporary custody of him? (or does your past experience prevent that?)

Or are they pretty much just saying ' we have him, you can't ever get him back?'

Nearly all of the DHS workers I've ever met and I've met a lot of them...all had the children's best interests at heart, but I also noticed that they also were very compassionate to the plight of the parents once they realized the parents wanted their children back and were willing to work toward that goal.

The first thing I would do if it were me is to ask the question ' Please, what is it that I can do to get him back? Just advise me on what steps to take to get him back so I can do it ' and then go do it.

Good luck

I tried to get a different caseworker I even tried to move her case to Oklahoma county since she lives with me again and I live in Oklahoma county. Everything I do makes them madder. When I started asking questions is when they went to my job and told my boss you need to find a way to shut her up. These are his exact words to me"You need to shut up, leave it alone, just let it go and let them do what they want before it effects your job." Needless to say I let him know my grandson is more important then my job. I am definately going down every avenue possible anytime someone comes up with one I haven't already tried I do that one. I agree with you about the question and that is the first question I asked and I was told by the worker they would not give him to me. As far as my daughter she has done parenting classes twice. Now they want her to go to drug counseling for a drug problem they fabricated. I explained to her that if she goes they will test her once a week at SOS which is where the courts and DHS send their clients. That is also the place I took her when she tested negative. So I told her this will just continue to prove you don't do drugs and that you are complying to their rules it's a win, win situation. Thank you for wishing us luck it is greatly appreciated.

[Dana]

Well, first of all, allow me to say I don't take anonymous messageboard posters at their word. Nothing personal- I've foudn that people misunderstand things quite often in this medium, and it's even moreso when the law is involved.

If you really think the judge did something completely unlawful, you need to talk to the Oklahoma bar or appeal the case through the proper channels. Oteherwise, it hink it's one of those unforunate STFU and GBTW things. Haphazardly accusing judges of corruption isn't something one should take lightly.

I did not accuse the judge I accused the worker I only make statements I can prove I believe I explained that to you. If you really want to see a copy of both tests taken on the same day you can go to this link and it will show you. Now these two tests are 1&1/2 hours apart after they let us go I called my friend with the courts and asked her where the best place to go was. After she told me I went straight there, checked in and then we sat in the lobby and waited our turn.


YouTube - Oklahoma DHS Corruption

[Karried]

I found a few helpful links, you're probably already joined but just in case.

I just hope and pray that this baby will have the best possible care with you and your daughter. I'm not a fan of the system but I realize that most of the workers do what they do to protect the children.

Please encourage your daughter to get help if you think she needs it.

Yahoo group for the victims of Oklahoma DHS fostercare system. To join the group go to

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OK_DHS_Victims

Lawsuit Filed Against Department Of Human Services - Topix

[Dana]

I found a few helpful links, you're probably already joined but just in case.

I just hope and pray that this baby will have the best possible care with you and your daughter. I'm not a fan of the system but I realize that most of the workers do what they do to protect the children.

Please encourage your daughter to get help if you think she needs it.

Yahoo group for the victims of Oklahoma DHS fostercare system. To join the group go to

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OK_DHS_Victims

Lawsuit Filed Against Department Of Human Services - Topix

Thank you and yes I am a member of the yahoo group and the law firm out of New York called to see if they could add me to the class action law suit but, she said these kinds of suits take a long time. I did tell them to feel free to add me and that I will give them whatever documentation they want. I can mail it e-mail it doesn't matter whatever they want.