Tulsa wants a WNBA franchise, Good Move?

[HOT ROD]

What do you think?

Go voice your support.

www.tulsaworld.com/wnbasurvey

[HOT ROD]

I honestly like it.

WNBA doesn't compete with the NBA, so by Tulsa getting a WNBA franchise - they could get a team for their BOK arena and not compete with OKC. Nor would OKC have to 'worry' of sorts, if Tulsa were to snag an NHL or AFL team (when OKC would still have a minor league team).

If they were to get a WNBA team, that would give them something - and would enhance the state. We'd have pro-basketball year round; they support OKC, we support them.

For those of you who may not be familiar with the WNBA - there's some pretty good looking players and not too bad b-ball. Plus, the Tulsa team would play the Seattle Storm - an INSTANT rival given Tulsa is OKC's little sister.

I like it, and went to their survey for support. I know the survey is meant for businesses - but if you like it (or don't), go support them. It's a good move for tulsa and a GREAT move for OKC! IMO.

[metro]

I don't think Tulsa or OKC could support WNBA long-term, I don't. I think PBC was smart by selling the Storm to raise much needed capital and to not take the risk of WNBA. We are going to be saturated from a corporate sponsor standpoint with just one major league franchise in the state. I do think Tulsa could probably support an NHL franchise, with the help (maybe at the expense of Blazers fans). Even though I'd rather have an NHL franchise in OKC, I'd still rather see Tulsa go after a more realistic NHL or MLS franchise than the non-prestigeous WNBA. At least MLS would get true worldwide exposure.

[Saberman]

I think between OKC and Tulsa we could support two teams. WNBA has been slow to grow, but I think they have the potential to become more popular. With womens college BB becoming more popular, especially in OK, WNBA would be the next logical step. We can not expect real growth until we provide more entertainment, and sports is the most popular base in OK.

These are the things people look for when choosing new areas to move to, and companies to grow. In order to attract young people and keep them in our state we have to provide the things that keep them here.

[JWil]

The WNBA can't even support itself without the money coming from the NBA. I'd stay a million miles away from this if I were Tulsa. But since Tulsa makes bad decisions constantly, I think they'll embrace this with open arms.

And nobody thinks about the WNBA for any reason when they're looking to move. Haha.

[sroberts24]

wnba is bad, and i don't want it in the state!

[OKCMallen]

I don't think the entire state would support the WNBA. Bad move.

[HOT ROD]

I don't think Tulsa or OKC could support WNBA long-term, I don't. I think PBC was smart by selling the Storm to raise much needed capital and to not take the risk of WNBA. We are going to be saturated from a corporate sponsor standpoint with just one major league franchise in the state. I do think Tulsa could probably support an NHL franchise, with the help (maybe at the expense of Blazers fans). Even though I'd rather have an NHL franchise in OKC, I'd still rather see Tulsa go after a more realistic NHL or MLS franchise than the non-prestigeous WNBA. At least MLS would get true worldwide exposure.

Metro, I agree about the prestigue factor - but even Tulsans admit that they wont be able to get the NHL, because it would compete with OKC's NBA team (and no way OKC would have a minor league team with a major being in Tulsa).

I think Tulsa needs to be realistic, WNBA does have talent and I think with a few years it will be successful. Imagine the paris twins going to Tulsa, playing Candace Parker of LA Sparks and the Seattle Storm coming in? I think it would be a hit -and shouldn't be too terribly expensive nor require that much financial support. I mena, it's not a big 4 league (but it's close enough).

The thing I like most about the WNBA for Tulsa - is that it gives them SOMETHING to be proud of, that does not in any way compete with OKC (neither for fans or schedule). In fact, the survey has them possibly marketing using both teams, which would be a HUGE advantage to their team.

I say, they should go for it. If they can get an ownership group together - get a team.

I've read the TulsaNow forum and most people are thinking they dont want to compete with OKC at all. They're thinking using BOK as a music venue and capitalize on OKC's not being able to host as many events.

This might work for them, but this is COMPETITION for OKC actually, because events that would have gone to OKC might go to Tulsa, on NBA game nights (thus competition).

In some respects, I think they will have HUGE success landing college tournaments and such events - but I don't want OKC diminished in any way just because tulsa has the BOK. While at the same time, I want them to have something too - as it helps the state overall.

It'll be interesting if it happens, but judging by Tulsa's inability to ever agree on anything lately - as shown even on their forum; BOK will probably be akin to a white elephant most of the year.

[roboticbrad]

I know I would never go to a game and I know most Tulsans could care less about the WNBA. I'd much rather wait and see if we have a chance at the NHL (which will probably never happen).

[BDP]

I'd much rather wait and see if we have a chance at the NHL (which will probably never happen).

Well, anyone would, but are they mutually exclusive? Could the WNBA show that Tulsa could support an NHL or would that be completely unrelated?

I think it would work as well in Tulsa as any market, which is to say not that well. But I think the interest in women's basketball is higher in OK than would would expect right now. They could draft local players, which probably isn't always the best thing to do from a competitive stand point, but it would help the draw and the WNBA would need all the help it could get.

If I remember correctly, I think the Storm is one of the best supported WNBA teams in the country and it still looses money. So, it's not as if there'd be a lot of pressure.

As for the BOK getting shows away from OKC because of NBA scheduling, I don't think it works that way. The Staples Center hosts 3 major league teams and it still gets plenty of other events. They work around these things and they can turn these buildings around in a day easily. I think the BOK will get its share of shows that OKC will not, but not because of the NBA. It will because it's a newer market and a nice facility. Also, the Ford Center's improvements will also mitigate any head-to-head competition. It will have a lot of extra revenue streams for tenants that will make it as attractive as the BOK center, while in a slightly larger and more accessible market. In any event, I am looking forward to catching some shows up there. While it's nice to drive 5 minutes to a show, sometimes it's also fun to make a weekend out of it.

[JWil]

The Duct Tape Arena is gonna be the biggest white elephant this state has ever seen.

[Doug Loudenback]

I voted "No opinion." Had the option, "Don't care," been present, I'd have selected that.

I like Tulsa and think that it is a good city, per se, "as is." Among other things, it's got a pair of great museums, some wonderful old art deco downtown buildings, a great topography, and many individual people that I know and like who live there and who I count as my friends. That said, I have misgivings as to whether Tulsa, as a "conscious collective," so to speak, has yet joined the "Oklahoma race" -- as in, Tulsa not being above anywhere and, as it is, everywhere, else in the state, particularly but not limited to Oklahoma City.

Unless and until that should change, or at least until my perspective about that should change (and I'd prefer that it would since it would be beneficial to everyone concerned from a "statewide" perspective), I'm content for Tulsa to self-exist and me not be bothered about it one way or another, since such a care is not generally reciprocated by Tulsans toward non-Tulsa Okies, at least, not according to my experience.

When that viewpoint should change, I'll care more about what happens in and to Tulsa. Until then, my care is more akin to a hope that, sometime, Tulsa will see fit to toss off its air or superiority, admit to being part of Okie-land, including but not limited to the red-dirt farmers in western Oklahoma, the dry-lands of the southwest, the wheat-growing farmers of the northwest, etc., and, yes, my own town in the center of the state, and then go on from there with all the rest of the state, hand-in-hand, peer-to-peer. An apology to the rest of the state for not having done so much sooner would be good but it is not required.

As it is and for the time being, I'll be content to visit another "state" just by driving 90 miles up the turnpike, enjoy the Tulsa city-state, and then return to Oklahoma.

This is an overstatement and represents an emotional response to enduring a lifetime of Tulsans telling me (whether it was the "me" that grew up in Lawton (back in the days that the Tulsa public school system was not even a member of the cross-Oklahoma-schools sports and other interscholastic competition system, e.g., band, debate, drama competition) or the "me" that came to live in my birth city, Oklahoma City, that "I" wasn't as good as "them." It would clearly be beneficial to our whole state, and not just Tulsa, were it to stop harping on its superiority and internally focus on what IT needs to do for ITSELF as an integrated citizen-government-business collective unit to take care of its collective needs, but that hasn't happened yet. I was hoping that Tulsa would pass its 2007 River Tax (as well as earlier failed proposals to revitalize the city -- even though such a thing could have spring-boarded Tulsa perhaps beyond our own success level here, given the "natural-ness" of the Arkansas River passing by or through downtown and many other parts of Tulsa). That didn't happen.

As it is, many Tulsans claim that they are being taken advantage of by helping to fund the NBA coming to the state and the name "Oklahoma City" being part of the team's name. As though Tulsa did something to make that happen. As though Tulsa voters were part of Okc's self-imposed sales tax vote to improve the Ford Center and pay for a practice facility. As though members of Tulsa's "deep pocket" community paid any part of PBC's purchase of the Sonics or undertook such a venture on their own. As though the Legislature amended the Quality Jobs program (as small an item as this was in the process) without the entire state Legislature passing the amendment. For that small piece, Tulsa claims bad treatment for the team not being called the "Oklahoma" somethings.

When Tulsa voters, city government, and business interests find it possible to "come together" and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, I'll be glad. I do like Tulsa, even if Tulsa doesn't like "me."

As for the WNBA, Sherri Coale's success with OU and the new OSU coach's recent success in Stillwater, I think that many more are open to WNBA than were before ... I am, for one. But, whether enough are available in Oklahoma to make that a viable economic option, I haven't a clue. And as for Tulsa coming to host an NHL team, maybe that would work. I'm just glad that it did not happen here.

Does this rambling make any sense at all?

[JWil]

That was the post of the eternity, Doug. Rock on.

[jbrown84]

Question for you HOT ROD:

How many Storm games have you been to?

[unconcerned]

I voted "No", but it's not an implication on Tulsa. I don't think Oklahoma could support a WNBA team period.

"All right, I'll ask: How come it took three seconds to euthanize Eight Belles, but the WNBA is starting Year 12?" -Bill Simmons

[Patchy Proot]

JWil, I agree with you again. The WNBA is the perfect example of political correctness run amuck. If it was not subsidized by the NBA it would have folded a long time ago. I'm sorry folks, but having to pay to watch women play basketball is a waste of my entertainment dollars. The skill of the WNBA players might be, and I say might be, as good as an average male high school basketball team.

I love T town, but they missed the boat a long time ago. Taking a long snooze while thumbing your nose at its big brother down the turnpike bit Tulsa in the butt. It's too late now. They should go for an AFL team, because anything else at the major leauge level is simply unatainable for them. Tulsa should have made that big river they have a happening place. Why they didn't, well, who knows.

Just sayin......

[chuckdiesel]

The WNBA is like watching paint dry. It's a mind-numbing assault on basketball. So yeah, Tulsa, knock yourselves out trying to get something nobody really wants in the first place.

[OKCMallen]

Doug, awesome.

[sgt. pepper]

good show doug. i always thought tulsa county should become the 51st state of the U.S., then tulsa can finally become a capitol of a state like it wants to be, instead of being the crime capitol of oklahoma. as far as the wnba, i think they should concentrate on the mls.

[Pete]

I think Doug's post really shows why there will always be a lot of tension between OKC and Tulsa, especially among those that are over 40 (myself included).

It's easy to say both cities should be pulling for each other and it does happen to a certain extent, but so many from Tulsa were all too happy to distance themselves from the rest of the state and constantly try and claim some elitism.

And now that the worm has turned, many of them are bitter about it and many from OKC have a grudge to bear. I really, really try to be gracious to Tulsa when it comes to urban development and I do want them to improve their city, but a big part of me hopes OKC always stays ahead of them because I never, ever want to hear all that false superiority junk again.

As it stands now, people that live in and love OKC simply claim "our city is better". Tulsans, for the longest time (and there are still plenty now) said "WE are better." And that's going to be hard to get past any time soon.

[Floyd]

Doug's post is clear and well written. It's also petty and shows a persecution complex.

What gets me is that everyone here apparently agrees. I just think it's weird. The animosity towards Tulsa is striking. People on this forum are literally defining OKC's success by its triumphs over Tulsa--witness the airport expansion thread, the NBA team name, hoping that Devon outbuilds the BOk Tower, etc.

What is it they say? Act like you've been there before. Stay classy, OKC.

[Pete]

And you find the exact same type of thing on Tulsa forums.

There is a natural rivalry that is always going to exist for various reasons and Internet hyperbole aside, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

It's not like people from the respective cities don't get along in the real world. And the competition, generally speaking, is good for both towns.

[ddavidson8]

I could care less if the WNBA never existed. Of course I agree that the only real reason it is on TV, much less radio, is that the NBA uses it as a tax write off.

My only concern with Tulsa getting a team is that they will call them the "Oklahoma _____" instead of the "Tulsa ______". Please leave the rest of Oklahoma out of the WNBA.

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug's post is clear and well written. It's also petty and shows a persecution complex.

What gets me is that everyone here apparently agrees. I just think it's weird. The animosity towards Tulsa is striking. People on this forum are literally defining OKC's success by its triumphs over Tulsa--witness the airport expansion thread, the NBA team name, hoping that Devon outbuilds the BOk Tower, etc.

What is it they say? Act like you've been there before. Stay classy, OKC.

Floyd, I related my growing up experiences as they occurred, accurately. As far as "besting" Tulsa is concerned, I really don't care about that ... I'm quite content just being proud of my own city, without a comparison. I was very much hoping that Tulsa (county, as I understand it) would pass the River Tax. It is mind boggling to think of the good that probably would have done for the entire Tulsa metro.

But, if you think that my personal perceptions of how non-Tulsans have been and are viewed by lots of Tulsans are false (as in "not accurate"), you are badly mistaken, I think. Such notions have nothing to do with a sense of "persecution" or a persecution complex (whatever that is). It has to do with living with and through a long-time history of Tulsa's condescension and bad manners.

For example, consider your own reply. My post was not without sincere compliments to Tulsa. But, it seems to me that similar reciprocity comes from many Tulsans as though it as hard as having teeth being pulled to do it. I'll re-read your reply and see if I am mistaken in that regard.

[Kerry]

I voted "No opinion." Had the option, "Don't care," been present, I'd have selected that...

...Does this rambling make any sense at all?

That was some authentic frontier jibberish.
http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/sad...s/gibbersh.wav