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  1. Post WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oh my god guys!!!!

    I was reading OKC business, when low and behold I almost sh^^ in my pants. They are going to build the East Concourse!!!!!1

    OH MY GOD!@!!!@!@!@@@@

    See for yourself. okcbusiness.com - Printer Friendly Version

    Oh my God, this is awesome news!!!! I dont know why they didn't complete the East Concourse form the get-go.

    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  2. #2

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    Oh my god guys!!!!

    I was reading OKC business, when low and behold I almost sh^^ in my pants. They are going to build the East Concourse!!!!!1

    OH MY GOD!@!!!@!@!@@@@

    See for yourself. okcbusiness.com - Printer Friendly Version

    Oh my God, this is awesome news!!!! I dont know why they didn't complete the East Concourse form the get-go.

    WOW!!! This is good news!

  3. #3

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    it's pretty huge that they are not using
    Benham who did the first two phases......

  4. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Im totally stunned guys!!!

    I hope OKC is going to make a big push this time. We know we can do it - who cares that DFW is 200 miles away, our city is big enough to catch the whole state, KS, AR and so on with some key (and relatively inexpensive) flights.

    We need to take it to Tulsa as well - no offense but they've been moochin' off OKC's flight base since deregulation. Let's FINALLY pull far ahead - in every category! Sure, WRWA is the biggest (and busiest) airport now - but let's move into the 5M+ pax a year range - and leave all other airports save DFW behind.

    This is awesome news - I knew sharing gates was not good health for the airport!

    And Im sure, with a new 12 gate concourse - we could get an airline to relocate their hub operations!! It ONLY MAKES SENSE!

    Im so happy, I don't know what to do.
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  5. #5

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hot Rod,

    You seem to be very informed about this industry. What do you see happening in the short term, realistically?

  6. #6

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If I read this correctly, this is just an approval for planning the east concourse. It's less than $600K after all.

    I hope this means they will go right into construction but I think that is far from a sure thing.


    Airport Trust votes to approve contract to expand Oklahoma City’s Will Rogers World Airport
    By Stefanie Brickman - 7/23/2008

    At today’s City of Oklahoma City Airport Trust meeting, the group voted to approve a professional services contract to expand Will Rogers World Airport.

    The trust approved the agreement with Frankfurt Short Bruza Associates, P.C., for “Terminal Expansion Plan Update—Phase 3 (East Concourse)” in the amount of $599,714 by acclamation without discussion.

    In 1998, the trust approved a plan to construct Phase III. In Nov. 2007, Mark Kranenburg, director of Airports, requested the City’s Public Works Director to conduct the selection for consultant services for the project. Airport staff reviewed the interviews conducted in March and recommended Frankfurt Short Bruza Associates, P.C. for the agreement.

    During the meeting, Kranenburg also reported the airport will be losing daily nonstop flights to Albuquerque, Los Angeles Ontario, San Diego and Sacramento as ExpressJet pulled their Oklahoma City presence as of Aug. 22 along with the daily Continental flight to Cleveland. Will Rogers World Airport now offers 20 nonstop flights to 17 cities instead of 25 flights to 20 cities.

    Kranenburg also said Delta would be adding additional daily nonstop flights to Atlanta and Cincinnati.

  7. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    guru, Im basically guessing - using some logic. but really, pure guessing.

    I know that airlines are struggling - and the OLD hub system is not working for many of them. OKC, on the other hand - is one of the most central big cities left that has an airport who could expand and support a hub.

    We would bring a NEW facility that would be debt free - so we could offer airlines a huge break for them bringing in a mini-hub or focus city operation - if nothing else. Im saying, perhaps this is what Kranenburg is going after now; perhaps he's seen the light - that we need to be competitive and finish the job.

    Pete, I'd agree with you but for the simple fact that - the authorization was to develop the plan for the extension. To me, what this means is develop a schedule and finalize the designs; next would be construction.

    I see this happening, because despite the downsizing airlines are doing and the fact that Mark announced the reductions (and additions, but still a net loss of flights) - the trust approved the contract. And the fact that it was approved by acclamation and without discussion - that tells me it's going to proceed.

    Besides, OKC is in a difficult position right now - because we have a new facility and a growing market (that is only just beginning to grow) yet our facility is still a lower-midsized airport. Omaha, Albuquerque, and several other Tier III cities much smaller than OKC have better facilities and more flights.

    Also, I think they know something is going on - perhaps with another company desiring to move to OKC, yet might be hung up on flights.

    Sure, Im speculating all around - but this is great news, and definitely supports my position. I agree though, I wish there was two more zeros to that number that was announced (say 59.9M) which would indicate construction is immediate - but I think the 'project management contract' incdicates construction is imminent.

    Like I said, if there were doubts that it wouldn't be built, then it wouldn't have passed - or at the very least it would have had some discussion.

    We need a full/completed airport - if nothing else, to show the complete Oklahoma City experience. Plus, the airport has the funds - why not do it now, while costs are relatively lower (than past years) since the nation is in a recession.

    There is that old addage from finance (and business in general), that you buy low and sell high (which applied here means invest when times are bad and profit when times are good).

    I see this decision in support of this and am happy that the airport is still on the minds of the city.

    My only thing is, doesn't WRWA have over 95 non-stop departures a day? Why does the article say 20? Also, almost every airport outside of OKC uses total flights per day (and not departures) in their marketing material. Why do we short-sight ourselves where it counts?

    I mean, at SeaTac, ORD, LAX, DEN, DFW - everywhere but OKC, they say XXX flights a day and NOT XX departures. Our convention really low-balls WRWA.
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  8. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I agree that it must be pretty close to a sure thing or they wouldn't approve half a million in planning contracts. That's not chump change for the Airport Trust.

  9. Post Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It appears the journal agrees with me.

    The Journal Record - Article

    Airport Trust to pay $600,000 to jump-start expansion plan
    July 24, 2008

    OKLAHOMA CITY – The city Airport Trust agreed to pay about $600,000 Wednesday to Frankfurt Short Bruza Associates to update a Will Rogers World Airport expansion plan that had been put in motion years before current fuel prices and airline cutbacks.

    City leaders had seen a need for airport expansion to allow for increased flight traffic when the trust approved the plan in 1998, Airports Director Mark Kranenburg said. The current economic downturn will have an effect on the east concourse’s progress, but ultimately expansion is still necessary, he said.“Since then we’ve had 9-11 (terrorist attacks); our ways of operating and managing airports is much different from then,” he said. “So there were a lot of things in the plan that needed to be tweaked to work in today’s environment.”

    Earlier this month, US Airways announced it will cancel daily US Airways Express routes from Oklahoma City to Phoenix and Las Vegas. Regional jet operator ExpressJet earlier said that company also will halt services out of Oklahoma City. Kranenburg confirmed flight cuts from Continental, United and American Airlines as well. Carriers blame high fuel prices and related costs.

    So why would an airport be looking for more space while business is shrinking?

    “Well, we didn’t have to do MAPS either,” Kranenburg said
    , referring to a successful, multimillion-dollar tax-funded project to update many of the city’s downtown buildings and infrastructure. “But we know that the forecasts of travelers in the next few years show more people than ever are going to be flying.

    “I don’t know what the long-term impact of this oil crisis is going to be and how it’s going to affect airlines, but we want to be able to at least plan for the future and have something in place that we can pull the trigger on when we need to.”

    Kranenburg said that just a few months ago Will Rogers was running out of gates for planes and increased traveler traffic. It looked as though the airport might fall behind the demand curve, he said, especially with the impending relocation of an NBA basketball team to the local market.

    “It doesn’t mean that don’t plan for the future, just because you have downturn in airline service,” he said. “It still remains to be seen whether that’s going to be short-term or long-term.”
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  10. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Is a wing with another 11-12 gates needed? Hardly. However, a wing with maybe 4-6 more gates, a business center, and 2 international capable gates would be nice and make the facility more complete.

    Hub or focus city in Oklahoma City? Not now or in the next few years. Hubs are shutting down, focus cities are getting pulled...airline are still in consolidation mode and won't add any more major connecting points. There are still some opportunities for new service - AirTran, Alaska, etc....but nothing on the scale for a single airline to take over 6-10 gates.

    Cincinnati, Memphis, Las Vegas, and a few other markets are seeing their hubs and focus cities downsized or closed. None of the major airlines are looking at another place for a hub - so people just need to keep their emotions in check and not get crazy on what this means. A few years ago we went through the whole "America West hub" idea that kept coming up. The good thing, they get building now and it will take a few years to finish, so by then...things may finally be turning around. But as anyone who follows the airline industry, things can change DRASTICALLY in just a year. We have no way of knowing what it will be like.

  11. #11

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The current print edition of OKC Business is reporting that passenger counts were up while aircraft arrivals/departures were down (June 08 v. June 07), meaning that load factors were increasing (not news). However - The average passenger load was only in the upper-60s. I suppose that it's from so many short-hop RJ's, and not very many longer-haul Boeing & Airbus airliners. Just reporting the "what," not the "why."

  12. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Even if you remove the idea of WRWA becoming a hub, OKC is in a continuing growth mode, and will be for the foreseeable future.

    If OKC continues to build it's infrastructure to get to the next level as a convention city, it will need to expand air service. Because WRWA is self sustaining with it's own oil wells, why not go ahead an add the additional 12 gates. Bought and paid for, they will not have to contend with continuing construction projects to try and keep up with growth.

    Keep the vision of MAPS alive, build it and they will come. They can go ahead and build the structures and pad areas, then leave them mothballed until needed, then finish them out with and need new up grades. This also serves as a selling point to provide new service on short notice. Showing companies that OKC is progressive and able to move quickly. No new taxes need to be collected in order to expand quickly. Be proactive, instead of reactive.

  13. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe not a hub but a mini hub of sort would be perfect.

    LIke it or not, the airport will need to be expanded. whether now or in 10 years. If we wait that long who knows, the price could double. Might as well get it done now so we don't kick ourselves later.

  14. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hub or mini hub or focus city....with who? If you can show me one airline that is wanting to grow its connecting network, please post it.

    I do agree costs will go up over time, but the airport has to be careful about having a huge area sitting empty. However, if they make it a multipurpose area with a couple international gates and some business service centers - then it is doable. At least it would stop the inbound Mexican flights from stopping in Dallas.

  15. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    not grow. but shift around a bit. I could see southwest doing that easily. Help the flow of traffic in love field.

    The only international flights I could see are seasonal to the mexican hotspots and a couple flights a week maybe to Mexico City.

  16. #16

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    As originally outlined, Phase III would include 11 new gates.

  17. #17

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by worthy cook View Post
    not grow. but shift around a bit. I could see southwest doing that easily. Help the flow of traffic in love field.

    The only international flights I could see are seasonal to the mexican hotspots and a couple flights a week maybe to Mexico City.
    Air Canada to Toronto would be nice, open up the Great Lakes/NE region to OKC and also provides a ton of European connections.

  18. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    add vancouver to air canada as well (for their vast asian international network) and maybe also Calgary (oil/gas business, lots of OKC companies there also).

    Venture - I understand what you're saying, and using the OLD method of thought you're right.

    but, I think things are changing a bit. It is true airlines are going away from hubs and more to point-to-point, BUT you must admit that the airlines are moving away from the OLD hubs - places that didn't make sense or dont now (like Cincy, KC, STL, so on).

    This should not stop OKC - especially since the money ist there.

    OKC should build the facility as intended, maybe we dont put in all of the jetways at first (we can always shell those in later), but the Wing needs to be completed. Oklahoma City does have a HUGE advantage being centrally located, growing corporate and residential communities, gaining tourist and convention centre, government center, so on. ... In fact, if we didn't have to compete with a smaller but still competitive facility 110 miles NE; OKC would already have over 7M pax per year (like Indy).

    I say, don't continue the mediocraty - let's build now. Even if it doesn't fill right away - it will. There are MANY airlines which we don't have. Heard of Jet Blue?

    I think that is a HUGE untapped airline for OKC, also Alaska; and a few of the smaller airlines and a couple of international. We could shoot for one flight a week, if needed - be creative. Not every new service has to be daily.

    Over time, it will make sense to hub in OKC or have some sort of transfer base here. DFW will probably always be the primary facility for the region - but OKC could overtake love field if it went ahead and built the facility and continue its economic renaissance!

    Like I said, the best time to build is when things aren't going to well; this fact has been proven time and time again (MAPS, the Federal projects, so on). You inject capital when things are bad (it's cheaper and provides sustaining ability) then you profit heavily when things get good.

    And be honest, things aren't that bad in OKC right now (it's the rest of the nation), so why shouldn't OKC turn the Oil/Gas money and diversify it into making OKC a top Tier II city.

    This is my point, and apparently many in OKC's leadership (and finally the airport trust) appear to agree with this.

    Venture, I like your idea of building the facility complete yet only have 5 or so gates for now - with 2 designed to be international. I hope they design/redesign the East Concourse to include customs and immigration facilities

    Then once this is built - we can change the name of the airport to


    honestly, this is what it should be called now (or Will Rogers Oklahoma City World Airport), following the models of Lambert-Saint Louis, Armstrong-New Orleans, Toronto-Pearson, Chicago-O'hare, Reagan-National.

    We need to capitalize on the Oklahoma City brand, and brand everything OKC where we can. Many people around the world don't know where Will Rogers World Airport is, but if you call it Will Rogers - Oklahoma City International (or World); well, then it's obvious.

    Go Oklahoma City - BUILD THAT AIRPORT!
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  19. #19

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I love the name as current, but if it changed one day, the best option would be "Oklahoma City - Will Rogers World Airport." That would keep the historical name and add the city name. Although, WRW is already known on flights as "OKC," so if people don't know that WRW is in OKC, then well... they're not paying much attention to their bags!

  20. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm glad to see that they are going to finish the project. i say build the thing full force in full size. Just because air travel is down right now, doesnt mean we should chop off the terminal...then we'll be kicking ourselves in another 10 years when traffic is back up and we don't have enough gates.

  21. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oklahoma City-Will Rogers International.

  22. #22

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But as anyone who follows the airline industry, things can change DRASTICALLY in just a year. We have no way of knowing what it will be like.
    So true. I'll be the first to admit that we don't need it now considering the industry downsizing and our loads. But, I do like to see Oklahoma City finally betting on its future. These things are cyclical and it seems that Oklahoma City is always on the back end of the cycle, where by the time we plan things, the economy goes south and nothing ever gets built. Since we have the resources to do it now with the oil money, now is when we should do it, imo.

    Unless, of course, the Airport trust wants to spend the money on a rail line to downtown. That'd be awesome and, if it worked, maybe it would elevate support for more rail in the metro. Of course, that's just pie in the sky talk and I have no idea if the trust is even structured to do something like that, but it's a thought.

  23. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    For ONCE we are trying to plan ahead and people are saying "we don't need it". Let's support this effort to be progressive. Kranenberg is doing a fantastic job. Really proved us all wrong.

  24. #24

    Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I agree that Kranenburg has turned out to be a good choice even though I voiced concerns initially.

    It seems the money had already been allocated for the expansion and now they need to go back and perhaps make some changes due to the new landscape.

    No matter what, OKC will continue to grow as will air travel. Even if fuel prices remain high and keep edging up, those same forces affect other modes of travel and people still have to get from point A to point B. Just like driving, people adjust to the new costs and pretty much keep going.

    So, Kranenburg is trying to be proactive rather than reactive and that is forward-thinking at it's finest. It's possible OKC could start growing at even a faster rate -- become the new Phoenix/Las Vegas/Austin/Charlotte -- and it would sure be nice to get out ahead so we can take full advantage of our opportunities.

    It seems the civic leaders are taking this attitude more and more and it continues to pay off.

  25. Default Re: WRWA to EXPAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Air Canada has potential, but they are still uncertain on what they want to do. Plus they service OKC via their code-share with United right now.

    JetBlue - is bleeding cash right now and they are trying to figure out what to do.

    Alaska - they would fill a niche and I think they are a good target...however fleet availability may be an issue.

    I want to make my position clear. No one is a bigger advocate for expanded air service in any city, especially here and my home town. I just find a need to make sure people don't get over the top and talk of things that are almost totally unrealistic (hub talk). We've been down that road before on this board.

    Adding another 10-12 gates to the airport will be over kill. Adding 4-6 additional, with 2 (or 2 additional) gates configured for handling international arrivals. What will this bring?

    A better handling of charter activity to Mexico. Also, it may make it much more attractive for a scheduled airline (US-based or Mexican) to add Oklahoma City to their route network. Also inbound scheduled flights from Canada would be easier, given that they would come from a city that doesn't have pre-clearance of US customers already. Getting a Mexican carrier could be highly doable right now. Rockford, IL (about 50-mi or so west of Chicago) is about to land a Mexican carrier there with nonstop service.

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