MWC has gone downhill

[bombermwc]

Think of somewhere like the Bronx. If there is trash lining the street, who is responsible for that? The city does it's job by emptying the bins, but it's not their job to maintain everything. People have to be conscious enough to pick up after themselves and not let litter fly. More depressed areas simply have more residents that don't put as much care into how things look...hence they let the litter fly. I'm assuming you weren't reffering to anywhere in MWC because that would totally surprise me to see that somewhere here.

[Karried]

I just think it is the case of the abysmally lazy who want some one else, anyone else to do for them.

Which is why they might be poor in the first place.

I know, it drives me crazy.. yeah, you might not have a lot of money but it's free to walk over to the garbage can. Take some pride in your self, your home, your kids. Clean up.

Just driving to the Zoo on Wed.. we were behind a car, driving East on 44 - twice they threw cans out of their car window. and yes, they exited Martin Luther and no, they weren't going to see Journey. I'm pretty sure they lived in that area ( which is really nasty in some spots).

I took down their license plate as one can whizzed by us but don't know what to do with that info. Pretty pathetic.

[Redskin 70]

..hence they let the litter fly. I'm assuming you weren't reffering to anywhere in MWC because that would totally surprise me to see that somewhere here.

No place in particular, i think most towns have the habitually and abysmally lazy,
in some areas its just more pronounced and concentrated...........

Im sure though we could all name some certain APARTMENT COMPLEXES the above statements would be totally true at....

[mmonroe]

You could count me in also if there were shirts for our area.

I'm actually looking at pricing for shirts. What are you guy's price range. I want to make it affordable, not profitable.

I have mixed feelings on MWC. I grew up in MWC, went to Carl Albert (go Titans!)

YES, Go TITANS!

[Lauri101]

I'm actually looking at pricing for shirts. What are you guy's price range. I want to make it affordable, not profitable.

Depends a lot on quality/style

A plain T-shirt - $10 -12 at most, less if "iron-on" type letters

Polo or baseball style - would pay up to 20.

[swartzphotography]

back to the original topic of this thread now. The reason mwc and dc have gone downhill. Crimerates have more than doubled in both areas since my move to oklahoma several years ago. The originator of this thread said exactly what the problem is when he/she made reference to the teenagers and kids not giving a damn about other peoples personal property nor do they care what they do. Of course since they are teenagers and young kids the blame lies fully on those that have kids that decide to bring them up with no care for other peoples property or possesions. So if you have kids you only have yourselves to blame your the parrent. I know im probably about to hear "not my kids" They are sweet little jewels. Its funny how it allways seems to be somebody elses kids causing the problems. So the answer is parents. Take back control you are the parent you are resposible for your kids actions. Ask questions who what where when and why. Keep them on a short leash and let them earn the respect to be able to be left unattended.

[mmonroe]

I was actually thinking of doing a picture of a pony with letters above it, "Original Mile". If anyone is anyone, they'll get the pony reference.

No Iron ons, I don't do that. I'm a graphic designer, I can do a lot better than that, trust me.

Anyone else?

[Lauri101]

A pony would be cool! I get the reference, of course, but I thought the ponies only went to the children whose parents bought homes in the Meadowwood area?

Since my OM living has only occured in my adulthood, I could be simply confused.

I'd revise upward on what I'd pay for that kind of artwork!

[bombermwc]

swartz - that's a lame excuse. It's the excuse people use when they want to blame someone else for their own problems. Teenagers aren't the problem in MWC...not at all. You go drive around and see how many teenagers you see valdalizing the city....in my 20+ there years I've never seen it. Besides that, there's a curfew that prevents them from being out after like 10:00 except to go home from work. I teach teenagers and I would say that your statement is not reflective of the students at MCHS for sure.

[Velvetaunt]

Hey there,

I grew up in Del City, but I moved to Tulsa 27 years ago. I still have family there and have been there many times since. It breaks my heart to see the condition of the houses and the crime there. I was hoping to return for retirement years, but I am not so sure I will now.

I was hoping that the economy would turn around there and see people start to fix up the houses, but seeing how the rental rate is around 60% I doubt that things will ever change.

Before I moved to Tulsa I lived in the apartment complex facing the highway on the north side for about three months with two other ladies. We moved out because all of a sudden a huge amount of questionable characters started moving in. Parties all hours of the night, drugs being purchased out of the back of vans, groups of guys gathering in the parking lots at night - made me reeeal uneasy. After moving I heard that HUD had something to do with the sudden change. Who knows! I was glad to get out of there.

I have seen the amazing changes taking place in Midwest City and hope Del City will benefit from the growth, but I think it will take more than just a shot in the arm to fix the problem

The problem Del City has happened right from the start. Planners did not plan for the future. They had no plans for industry to move in and provide jobs for people. I guess they were relying on Tinker to always be there. Now the city is boxed in on all sides and no room now for business growth - all housing, schools and existing business.

My uncle graduated from the first class of Del city high school. All the houses round it were new and well maintained (I lived on Thomas Avenue - I could see the glass windows of the church next door to it from my front porch). Tax payers paid good money to build that school, but when students graduated, there was no way to stay in the community and support themselves. Once they went off to college they never returned. Many of the parents moved off to some where else and either sold their home or rented it out.

Just before I left I lived in a garage apartment that was in good shape for the most part, but I could pull nails out of the window seal with my fingers. It is a sad state of affairs when a community starts to die. I find it hard to believe that anything could save it now.

Vel

[Thunder]

I live in Del City for many years and I still do, Velvetaut. It is a fine place to live. Every city has a bad place. No need to put down Del City. I feel safe living here.

Del City got a WalMart and things is getting better business wise. There are constructions on 29th and Sooner, which I hope will be similar to MWC's shopping centers on 29th.

People tend to look at the negatives, I don't. I told mom about the house that Luke was selling and how I was interested and how Luke taught me some things involving purchasing a house. She right out said Lazy Lane is a bad area.

The apartment that you used to live, Velvetaunt, is Logan Point (i think) and people generally say it is a bad area. Well, I live just across the highway at Eagle Point and people say it is a bad area. I'm still breathing, right? The most problem I have is moronic kids pressing the doorbell and run off. Recently, destroyed all my flowers, which I have none left, except for one saved and given to mom.

Bottom line, every city has a bad side with moronic kids running around.

[easternobserver]

The biggest problem facing both cities is a housing stock that was built in a half-assed, slipshod manner and then was never properly maintained. The flat top frame houses that comprise the cores of both cities were not made to be 60 year houses, and have reached the end of useful life. Some have been maintained and upgraded, but most have not. Now they are being bought by absentee landlords who are often more interested in the depreciation tax write-off than in putting money into them to ensure continued utility.

Make no mistake - a primary driver for the problems faced by these cities is are federal policies that haveencouraged building interstate highways for intra-city transportation and have kept gasoline costs unnaturally low, thus facilitating a constant move outward in a completely unsustainable manner. Now, these policies are continued by "bailouts" for all of the people who bought houses they could not afford and kept pumping money into a vicious cycle. The losers -- inner ring suburbs that were left with large amounts of rental property, and responsible property owners who bought houses they could actually afford and have paid their bills. Now, all taxpayers will pay for the excessive consumption that has decimated our center cities and inner ring suburbs.

Honestly, cities like Del City and Midwest City have an unfair disadvantage when it comes to continued growth and positive development.

[bombermwc]

If that's all true eastern...then why has development in Choctaw never taken off? It's the next town out and it's still mostly country land. Same goes for all of the Carl Albert part of Mid-Del. All of the economic development is IN MWC.

[Velvetaunt]

Intereting posts!

Well, if I were to become suddently wealthy I would come back to Del City and try to turn it around. In my dreams I could see building some retirement communities there (let face it the numbers for retirees in the near future are staggering), then I would buy my old family home, completely re-do it and eventually start buying up houses - fix them up and make them useful for young families to have a decent place to live. But before all that I would start with city hall - make them enforce ordinances that probably are already in the books about home ownership and the responsibilities of upkeep. I would also find a way to limit the amount of rental properties in the city that big real estate companies can purchase and rent out, and somehow make them responsibile for the condition of those homes.

Sigh - if only it were something as simple as money.

Vel

[Thunder]

They are building a new retirement community in Del City on the north side of I-40, between Sunnylane and Scott.

[Velvetaunt]

I know about that one, my sister and her husband were in the process of moving in when she died about a year ago. It cost them about $1,600 a month to live there. He moved in but since then has moved to a house for rent for much less.

My sister was a diabetic - had been for 35 years and needed to be where she could get help if she needed it. But, there at the end she was in and out of the hospital so much we knew it was just a matter of time. Anyway, that's why they moved there, for medical emergencies and meals etc. She could not do much by then.

But I do hope more is on the way because there will surely be a need for it soon.

Vel

[Redskin 70]

Intereting posts!

Well, if I were to become suddently wealthy I would come back to Del City and try to turn it around. In my dreams I could see building some retirement communities there (let face it the numbers for retirees in the near future are staggering), then I would buy my old family home, completely re-do it and eventually start buying up houses - fix them up and make them useful for young families to have a decent place to live. But before all that I would start with city hall - make them enforce ordinances that probably are already in the books about home ownership and the responsibilities of upkeep. I would also find a way to limit the amount of rental properties in the city that big real estate companies can purchase and rent out, and somehow make them responsibile for the condition of those homes.

Sigh - if only it were something as simple as money.

Vel

Vel,
welcome back to Del City.
regarding the situation of the rental homes. By Federal law you could NOT limit hrental ownership. Part of the crisis regarding the rental properties has to do with the sub prime mortgauge institutions. DId you know that you cannot get a conventional home mortgage if you are going to rent the property so the slum lords have to go with secondary mortgages and they have grossly over extended to the point they cannot get sufficient rental income to do property maintenance.

Did you know that Del CIty has an aggressive policey for code enforcement going. In the last three years they have spent $57,000 in public money to condem, tear down, fine, and haul off trash on these rental propertys.

They have also condemned close to one hundred homes for habitation and evicted tenants because of the slum lords.
They budgeted $15,00 just this year for abatement and I understand they are already out of money and need more to continue the process.

In addition they have started a program of housing inspection on rental property's and are forcing the slumlords to fix up the propertys or they dont get to rent them out.

In addition the building codes have been seriously updated to current national standards and the home builders and re modelers are being forced to build them right. The contractors are screaming bloody murder over that.

Part of the problem is the contractor are doing their work on Saturdays and Sundays now to avoid being caught by the building and code officials. That problem is compounded with the property owners being complacient and not getting proper building permits. I know of one instance just down the street from me where a property owner buil an unsafe un-inspected and non-permitted garage in their back yard. They were forced to tear it down.
-
There have been several news articles in both the papers and on TV of houses that Del CIty has condemned and evicted tenants or spent several thousand dollars to clean up one property.

Do be aware of two facts, the Home builders association and the Rental management property's have very powerful lobby's at the state capital and they are constantly trying to change the laws to their benefit.
I am personally aware of a home owner who suffered damage from the 99 tornado. It was to his roof and when he had it re-roofed he did not get a permit nor any inspections. The roof failed on him and upon inspection by the city inspector it was determined that he had severe roo rafter and brace damage from the tornado. So he saved $25 bucks on a permit and lost several thousand dollars on the roof job because there was major damage. I know this as he is a personal fired.

[Thunder]

Redskin, interesting.

How much money is the city getting from taxes at WalMart a year?

New constructions is going up and the city will get more money.

[easternobserver]

Bomber - the development you are speaking of is commercial development. This is part of the overrall problem. Choctaw and Harrah and even out to McLoud (and the same is true on other sides of the metro too - Newcastle was never meant for the type of housing additions going up there) have huge numbers of new houses, all large, all on large tracts of land. This is the unsustainable growith to which I am referring. The fact that the commercial development is happening closer in is only compounding the issue to an extent. In a sustainable community, people live close to where they shop and work. In the OKC metro, we have sprawl. Unsustainable housing growth keeps migrating out, away from the employers and the shopping. This leaves the central city and the inner ring suburbs decimated, with their housing stock left to be preyed on by the absentee landlords.

[easternobserver]

Dont get me wrong -- sprawl is really a sort of twisted interpretation of the American Dream -- but dont overlook that it is not pure economic reality, and would not be possible without government interferance (building interstate highways, keeping gas prices low, now bailing out subprime mortgages). This interference is hurting our cities - the evidence is clear.

[Velvetaunt]

Dont get me wrong -- sprawl is really a sort of twisted interpretation of the American Dream -- but dont overlook that it is not pure economic reality, and would not be possible without government interferance (building interstate highways, keeping gas prices low, now bailing out subprime mortgages). This interference is hurting our cities - the evidence is clear.

Yes, I agree easternobserver. It has happened here in Tulsa too. People are moving out of the city (and I don't blame them - like you said - the american dream). As a result businesses are closing, leaving local areas high and dry. Crime becomes out of control and business properties begin to deteriorate. Several areas where I have lived in Tulsa have had this happened to them.

Fortunately, where I live now the city took an aggressive approach to bring the area back up and now the shopping properties are at 99% occupancy again.

Even though I am not an advocate of "sustainable development", I do see that times are changing and we need go with the flow when we see our way of life in danger.

Tulsa is also on the move to condemn houses (mostly in the north). But I can see big business is wanting the property. I have to admit that North Tulsa is lacking adequate shops in this area and needs a shot in the arm development wise, but I don't like the idea of forcing independent land owners out of their properties. I guess there is no good option to the problem and it has to be done at some point.

Redskin 70,

Thanks for the update on the aggressive move Del City is taking to improve things. I am impressed indeed! Perhaps, if and when I do move back, things will be much better. I do hope so!

Eight more years to retirement!

Vel

[mmonroe]

What about the fact that the largest employer in the state encourages you to live farther away with a monetary compensation?

[bombermwc]

Eastern - I think you don't pay much attention to the residetnial development in MWC either. Did you know that MWC has one of the higher building rates of homes in the OKC area???? There is SOOOO much being built east of Douglas. AND, they are infilling in older areas as well. Maybe you missed the new homes south of 10th on Air Depot? Or maybe the ones on 15th near Soldier Creek. Like so many things in MWC...you don't see them from the main roads...and they are built that way on purpose. It's observation vs. knowledge. What you see isn't always what exists.

Check the new home numbers over the last say 10 years and I think you'd be surprised. MWC is FAR from going downhill.

[Velvetaunt]

Yes, I have noticed it too. My youngest sister and her husband still lives in Midwest City. She keeps me up to date on things there.

Also, I think it would be cool if people would think "retro" and buy up the older homes, fix em up and make it a really cool thing for people to do. Recycle is a good thang!

[easternobserver]

New development is great -- in fact, the type of development you are referencing is quite positive, it gives people a way to live and work in the same areas. Same goes for several new Del City developments. That said, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the outlying developments. Imagine if the money behind those development was being used to redevelop the inner suburbs -- as for going downhill, I never said MWC was going downhill. That said, all of the inner suburbs are feeling the wrath of the absentee landlords and a generally aging housing stock.