Tulsa hates you.

[Swake2]

Oklahoma City has sucked and grabbed every state and federal job and tax dollar that it possibly could. And continues to do so. In no other state are all state and federal jobs so concentrated in a single area. The only other cities that rival OKC are are Washington, which is not relevant and Charleston, WV which is much smaller and has been at the receiving end of an endless line of pork from Senate patriarch Robert Byrd.

[Laramie]

Tulsans are jealous, and they will just have to get over it!

[Pete]

And regarding Tinker, remember that OKC voters just agreed to tax themselves yet again to acquire the former GM plant and thus retain/create lots of government jobs.

The bottom line is that OKC continues to be proactive on all fronts. That's a much more productive use of energy than worrying/complaining about other cities.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Uh oh...somebody better call the...


Sorry...couldn't resist.

[Decious]

I don't think that Tulsa hates OKC. Is there a little jealousy regarding the NBA and such? Probably. Then again, that's just part of being human. I read the Tulsanow thread and that s*** isn't anywhere near as bad as the stuff I say about Texans during the fall months. Hell, one of my girlfriends is from Dallas! God bless Texas. Anyway. All in good fun if you ask me. Some of the comments may be laced with some existential venom but that's the issue of one individual and shouldn't be seen as the attitude of an entire city.

Any Tulsan who really believes that OKC metro residents give a rodent's behind about what goes on in Tulsa is delusional. People have a full enough plate dealing with their own lives. That includes voting via their convictions whether they be altruistic or selfish. I voted yes on Ford Center renovations because I wanted a damn team. I didn't consider Tulsa and don't feel that I should have. Tulsa has almost a million folk to worry about Tulsa.

IOW I've never seen a hot girl at a club and thought to myself "Ooo I wanna get to know you better, but first lemme check the room and see if any of these other guys like you". Mick Cornett's job was to get us a team. He did a good job. Kathy Taylor's ambition is to better Tulsa and I for one think that she's doing a pretty good job.

I don't think there is much sense in disputing the numbers that Swake laid out. He usually does good research and I'm sure that they're sound. I don't agree that state funding is the reason that Tulsa is in such dire straights because I don't think that Tulsa is in dire straights. You can't boast about all of the great attributes that Tulsa enjoys and then cry poor mouth. I agree that I-44 needs to be completed, but Tulsa citizens can't even agree on a way to improve their city streets. Some Tulsans feel that they were slighted in regards to the team moniker, but Tulsa's NBDL team was stolen by one of it's suburbs. You are what you are. Play the hand you're dealt. Everyone else has to.

The way I see it OKC has four of a kind and a wild card. The four of a kind is comprised of energy money, cost of living, the city government, and metro citizens. The wild card is the state. Tulsa has the same hand save replacing the state w/ natural beauty. Unfortunately, they're all of a different suit. Mayor Taylor should fly in Rodney King to give a speech at the BOK Center. Tulsa keeps its "OKC would be nothing w/o our tax dollars" wild card in it's pocket and pulls it out whenever something good happens down here. IOW, Tulsa has all these bad ass endowments, but can't seem to put them all together into a winning hand. Oops...they are doing that with PLANiTULSA, but the Tulsa peanut gallery is already sabotaging it.

Tulsa's suburbs view Tulsa the same way that some Tulsans view OKC. That, more that anything, is what "holds Tulsa back". To see for yourself go to Tulsanow.org and read a while. While you're at it go to batesline.com.

[AFCM]

Oklahoma City has sucked and grabbed every state and federal job and tax dollar that it possibly could.

As we/they should. A city leader's objective is to fight to ensure their respective city comes out on top. That's like a person from Kansas getting upset about Oklahoma leaders fighting for and landing federal dollars/jobs. It's the same concept, just on a different echelon of government.

Back in the day, the railroad determined which city would survive or eventually become a ghost town. The major cities we know today exist because those leaders did what it took to do what was best for their city. Tulsa has been the beneficiary of similar consequences, so I guess other cities have the same gripe.

[Swake2]

I’m not saying it was wrong for the state to support Tinker, but it is wrong to say it was just Oklahoma City buying the GM plant, $10 million in state taxes also went to Tinker:

State to help in purchase of GM plant

And to act as if Tulsa hasn’t done anything for itself is to ignore the more than a billion dollars in new taxes and improvements that Tulsa has passed in just the last five years. It’s way past time for the state to provide a more level playing field for support between the cities. The state needs to fund Amtrak service to Tulsa, needs to fund the OSU Medical Center, needs to fund I-44 widening and repairs to I-244, needs allow OSU Tulsa to offer any classes that the market will support and needs to remove the tolls from I-44 or at the least upgrade US-75 to be an Interstate between Tulsa and Dallas.

Nice comments by the way, way to keep the level of the conversation up. Here’s a name for the team, Oklahoma City Tax Hogs. Honestly that’s a joke. I hope the team does well and I will probably go to a couple of games. I personally think it’s fine that the team is called Oklahoma City, I think if the team really wants Tulsa to support them then more important than the name would be to play a couple of regular season games in Tulsa. And you are going to need Tulsa’s support once you get that NBA ticket price sticker shock. The Hornets were at a discount. I don’t think the Sonics will be. Go with the Barrons name too instead of something cheesy like Thunder or Boomers.

That said, Tulsa certainly needs more support from your side of the state because we really aren’t getting it.

[traxx]

Swake I've read your posts on these boards before and for the most part your usually pro tulsa and anti OKC. It sounds like you just want to use the NBA issue to blame OKC for all the things that are wrong with Tulsa.

As far as the name of the team, I think it needs to be Oklahoma City. And I don't say that to cut out Tulsa. I like Tulsa, I think it's a cool city and I hope the best for it. But I think naming the NBA team after the state reaks of smalltime. It makes it sound like a college team. The big cities and the good teams have teams named after them and not the state.

Someone brought up the Texas Rangers earlier. Compare that to the Dallas Cowboys. The Rangers play like a college team and haven't won crap. Have they ever been relevent? The Cowboys have played in more Super Bowls than any other team and own 5 superbowl trophies and are considered one of the all-time best NFL teams.

Tulsa should go out and get them an MLB team and name it Tulsa something. I'll support them and get to Tulsa when possible to see games.

[AFCM]

Read my posts from earlier regarding how I feel about Tulsa. I agree Tulsa needs more support. I would like to see Tulsa succeed like OKC, but I believe it has to start with the citizens and leadership of Tulsa, not OKC.

[edcrunk]

That said, Tulsa certainly needs more support from your side of the state because we really aren’t getting it.

hmmmm... reaping what tulsa has sewn for years isn't fun, eh? perhaps if your city hadn't shat on okc for years... there'd be more incentive to lend some support.

[OKC74]

Having spent a lot of time in both cities, my opinion has done a complete 180 over the last several years. I grew up in eastern Oklahoma, and we always thought going to Tulsa was the best! We went there to shop, eat, and be entertained. We never came to Oklahoma City...with the exception of maybe a time or two. I knew nothing about it, but what I had heard, which was mostly negative because the people I was hearing it from were more familiar with Tulsa. However, after attending OSU in Stillwater, and then spending more and more time in OKC before finally moving here in '98, I was able to form my OWN opinion. I had an internship in Tulsa one summer, downtown, and I have to say that I was not at all impressed. As was mentioned in a previous posting, it seems Tulsa's downtown closes at 9...if not EARLIER! Can we say...6-ish...? At any rate, after OSU I moved to OKC and have loved every minute of it. What a turnaround a few years makes! The couple of times I've been back to Tulsa in the last 10 years, I must say that it seemed FAR dirtier than what I remember from years past. It's almost like the two cities did a flip-flop. I bear no ill feelings toward Tulsa, but I agree with what's being said here...If you want to reap the benefits of things the way OKC has done, you have to get out and make it happen. Sitting idly by and merely complaining that Tulsa feels inferior instead of doing something about it will get Tulsa nowhere fast. I'm proud of OKC and all of its efforts to do the things we've done, and I feel we're entitled to every bit of success it brings!

[sgt. pepper]

needs to fund I-44 widening and repairs to I-244,

i have family in tulsa and travel there more than i would like. imo, there is nothing wrong with I-244, it's already a 6-8 lane highway north of downtown. As far as I-44 is concerned, it most definitely needs to be widen, and it has been widen on the east side and i thought the widening of the south part is on it's way. I know land has been bought and cleared. Am i wrong?

[BigTulsa]

i have family in tulsa and travel there more than i would like. imo, there is nothing wrong with I-244, it's already a 6-8 lane highway north of downtown. As far as I-44 is concerned, it most definitely needs to be widen, and it has been widen on the east side and i thought the widening of the south part is on it's way. I know land has been bought and cleared. Am i wrong?

Please make sure and READ what was said about 244. We have no problems with width, it's the BRIDGE over the Arkansas that we have a problem with.

Land has been bought and cleared, but it's taken 10 years to get this done with dealing back and forth in OKC. It should have been repaired/widened 10 years ago!

[AFCM]

Sgt, he mentioned the repairs to I-244, but not widening.

Out of curiosity, are you a current/former NCO or is it just a nickname?

[sgt. pepper]

just a Beatle fan

[AFCM]

How did I miss that one?

[Swake2]

I-244 does not need to be widened, but it is literally descending into being a gravel road in many places. The bridge over the Arkansas is the lowest rated long span bridge in the state (actually it’s two bridges, one for each direction) and there are no plans on replacement. These two bridges are rated substantially worse than both the Crosstown and the bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis. And the I-244 bridges on the inner loop downtown are rated even worse than that. There is a bridge that is a major downtown street over the highway that fire trucks based at the station next door are not allowed to use as they weigh too much.

As for I-44 there are promises of work and the residential buildings have been taken. But there’s no schedule, there’s not even a final design. Land that people would like to develop along the new highway can’t be because the state doesn’t even really have a design. It was five years from when the buildings on the Sheridan to Yale stretch were taken to when construction began on the Yale interchange. The interchange was done a year ago but this section still isn’t done. Today it’s getting close to ten years since the buildings from Yale to Sheridan were taken and the section between the completed part at Sheridan and the new Yale interchange still isn’t even STARTED. I heard maybe next year. I’m not holding my breath. The interchange on US75 near my house has been due construction “next year” every year since 2003. It’s on the ODOT schedule again for “next year” again, year six of being “next year”.

In Tulsa you can’t base a time line on construction on when the state starts removing buildings. You can’t base it on the next year’s schedule either. It’s so bad that on the other end of I-44 the Cherokee Nation is going to pay to rebuild the 193rd E Ave exit (where their Casino is) because the state won’t, and the bridges on that end of I-44 regularly give way with holes all the way through the deck and traffic backs up on I-44 for miles to get to the Casino.

But that Crosstown certainly is chugging along, isn't it? Or was until the state was caught breaking the law by rushing things going over the rail-road.

[OKCMallen]

i have family in tulsa and travel there more than i would like. imo, there is nothing wrong with I-244, it's already a 6-8 lane highway north of downtown. As far as I-44 is concerned, it most definitely needs to be widen, and it has been widen on the east side and i thought the widening of the south part is on it's way. I know land has been bought and cleared. Am i wrong?

Some of it will be difficult to widen, esp the elevted parts- there's just not much room in Tulsa at all to widen their interior streets.

[okcustu]

I'm still marveling at the stupidity of city planners let's ressttict downtown growth by sorrounding it on all sides with highway
but again they've got us on art-deco architecture

[sgt. pepper]

and the bridges on that end of I-44 regularly give way with holes all the way through the deck

OKCers...does this sound familiar?

Some of it will be difficult to widen, esp the elevted parts- there's just not much room in Tulsa at all to widen their interior streets.

you're not a kiddin, that strech arong lewis, i think, is really narrow!...and it is always really busy with heavy traffic. i'm almost scared to drive thru it.

[NativeOkie]

I lived in both.
It is like SOONERS and cowboys.
One wins National Championships, Has nationwide name recognition, the other wants it and claims great victory when the beat you every decade or so.
I live now in California. Most have never heard of OSU they think you are talking about Ohio State. They KNOW who OU is. They can name things about OKC good and bad. They think of Tulsa as where Oral Roberts is from.
It is painful but it is the fact.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I lived in both.
It is like SOONERS and cowboys.
One wins National Championships, Has nationwide name recognition, the other wants it and claims great victory when the beat you every decade or so.
I live now in California. Most have never heard of OSU they think you are talking about Ohio State. They KNOW who OU is. They can name things about OKC good and bad. They think of Tulsa as where Oral Roberts is from.
It is painful but it is the fact.

Hey Noob:



As an OSU alum, I find that unecessary. What does that have to do with this thread?

[OKC74]

Good point Cuatro - I was thinking the same thing!!

[BDP]

You're justifiably proud of what your city has accomplished. But don't get upset when Tulsans sees it as YOUR team, not OUR team. There are two large cities in this state, and suddenly Tulsa feels treated like a suburb. Folks were sure acting like Tulsa was very important to the effort to land the team, and this got Tulsans interested in said effort. But then we realized it was just for expedience--so, you're welcome for our support in your efforts. Enjoy your NBA team. Hopefully there will be enough fans statewide to support it.

I wasn't trying to convey pride in what the city has done. I was just trying to show you how stupid and irrational it is that anyone would have any problem with the team being named after Oklahoma City given that it was by far contributions by people and leaders in Oklahoma City that made it happen, not to mention that IT'S WHERE THEY WILL BE PLAYING.

Will the rest of the state play a part in supporting the team? Of course it will. Just like the 100% of all teams named after a city draw from beyond that city's borders. It is important, but why, seriously, why does that mean it shouldn't be named after the city. How does that trump everything the city has done to put itself in a position to host the team? It just doesn't make any sense. And when you say "folks" were acting like Tulsa was important, you mean to say that Oklahomans from all over the state were pledging their support.

What's funny is that this is clearly not about the name of the team, because you can't justify it based on that. It's about highway funding, capitol jobs, and perceived favoritism from Oklahoma City, which HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DECISION ON WHAT TO NAME THE TEAM. It just doesn't. And for the tax thing, what's funny is that the same tax legislation is available to Tulsa and has been used for Tulsa companies. I didn't even agree with the expansion of the measure to include the team, but it is not in any way exclusive to that team and is sitting right there waiting and ready for Tulsa to use to lure its next big company with a fat payroll. Seriously, go ahead, use it and I promise not to demand that the company be named after the state, less I use their products or services, even if our mayor and Governor are used in the campaign to land that company. Sheesh.

[Nawfside OKC]

I'm Born and Raised in OKC. I Joined the U.S Air Force in 1998 i've been to great cities all around the world, but only been to tulsa twice. I went once for a rodeo another for a concert. I went with a open mind but the only thing I could find is that their malls have more to offer than ours and they have a greener city other than that sorry OKlahoma City all the way...


p.s when the hornets relocated to OKC for those 2 seasons, and we actually got so caught up in them we thought that they were gonna stay or at least hoped they would did they call them the OKC/New Orleans Hornets or the OKC/TUL/N.O Hornets ?