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  1. #1

    Default Light rail layout

    Since no one posted whether this needs to go on another thread or to start a new one, I decided to start a new one. Admin: you are more than welcome to move it if necessary.



    Here is my idea for a light rail system in OKC:

    Have the central hub be Union Station. A bus station would be built directly east or west across the street from the Station to transport to downtown, bricktown, etc.

    All trains would follow the new I-40. West if going to Yukon, El Reno or Mustang or follow I-40 east if going north, south or east. East would follow I-40 east, North would follow I-40 to 235 north and South would follow I-40 east to 235 south (I-35 eventually)

    Start out going South (Moore and Norman area) making local stops at SW 15, 29, 44 (with a large parking lot near the stop), 59, 74, 89 (parking lot), N 27, N12, SW 4 (parking lot), 19, Indian Hills, Franklin, Tecumseh, Rock Creek Rd (parking lot), Robinson, Main and stop at Lindsey (Buses to OU)

    Next east to Mid/Del area making local stops at Reno & Eastern, Sunnylane, SE 15th, Sooner Road (Rose State College), SE 29 (with several stops and parking lots along the way at Tinker), Douglas, Post (parking), Choctaw and stopping at Peebly (parking lot)

    Then, North to North OKC and Edmond making local stops at 10th (OUHSC), 23rd (Capitol), 50th, 63rd (buses to Chesapeake and Midfirst), Wilshire, Britton (parking), Hefner, 122nd (parking lot), Memorial (buses to restaurant row and QSM), 150th, W15th and stop at 2nd (UCO with a lot of parking)

    Finally, expand out west to Yukon, El Reno, Mustang area making local stops at Villa (Stockyards city), May (fair grounds), Meridian (parking and Hotel Row), Rockwell, Council (future outlet mall and parking lot), Morgan, Mustang, NW 10th and end at S 11th (Parking)

    I think this would be a start and there would also need to be local and express trains (sorry, just got back from NYC) I could see the Express making about three stops south (Lindsey or Main, SW 19, SW 44 and DT), three east (Sooner Rd, Tinker and Choctaw), three north (63rd, Memorial, and 2nd) and three west (Meridian, Council and NW 10th)

    Also keep in mind that the bus system would have to be revamped to pick up passengers from these stops to take them on the bus routes to their desired stop.

    This is just an idea but I would love everyoneís opinion. Donít worry, I can take criticism; Iím married.


  2. #3

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    I still think Union Station is a lousy location. I don't want to go all the way there and then have to take a bus back into the CBD or Bricktown: I want to end up right in downtown. Also how are you getting from Union Station to a north-south route, which I think is the most important one? You'd have to go east to find a reasonable right of way north and south, so why not build a brand new state of the art hub somewhere closer to downtown?. Personally, I'd like to see it in the area just south and directly behind or east of the Ford Center. That way, it could open onto our new boulevard, which be a great place for east-west access to Bricktown and the CBD.

  3. #4

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Would it be terrible to use Santa Fe station instead of union for downtown?

  4. #5

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Just curious, as I have primarily used public transit in Chicago and NY. How many cities have light rail that doesn't get you closer to the downtown and your main hotel and restaurant area than a half mile to a mile? Are there any that do so, and then require you to take a bus downtown or to your hotel?

  5. #6

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Betts: On getting N&S, the train would go east (along I-40) to 235 then north or south. I can see your point on building a new one but I was trying to take into account everything coming up with the Core to Shore plan (ie Boulevard, convention center, central park, etc.) I could see a new one built where the half circle buildings in BT are. That would be close enough to 235 and 40 to be a central hub. Again, just ideas.

    Also, I was in NYC last week and we had to take the bus from LGA to a train to take us to my brother's house. Not sure when it comes to the DART, or other more regionals transit systems though.

  6. #7

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Hipster, not sure if there would be enough room to expand to the amount of tracks needed to facilitate this type of project. I guess it could be a multi-story rail line but again you need more room to allow for buses. Also, keep in mind that I am in no way an expert on PT, just an interested citizen.

  7. #8

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Tons of buses lining up doesn't sound like a way to unclog streets either...I agree with the expresses though. Not sure who will pay for the lots, but it seems like parking lots would be cheaper to maintain then all our highways...

  8. #9

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Very good point on the buses and again, I am in no way an expert, just logical. I think there would need to be a larger area for buses to pull in and have the letter or number that corresponds with their route visible in front, side and back. I could see an area for three to five buses (two at smaller locations) built near the stop.

  9. #10

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    Betts: On getting N&S, the train would go east (along I-40) to 235 then north or south. I can see your point on building a new one but I was trying to take into account everything coming up with the Core to Shore plan (ie Boulevard, convention center, central park, etc.) I could see a new one built where the half circle buildings in BT are. That would be close enough to 235 and 40 to be a central hub. Again, just ideas.

    Also, I was in NYC last week and we had to take the bus from LGA to a train to take us to my brother's house. Not sure when it comes to the DART, or other more regionals transit systems though.
    I'm actually talking about using a bus to get from Union Station if you work downtown or you're a tourist or resident and want to go to a hotel or restaurant in downtown or bricktown. First of all, if we don't move the crosstown, that part of the city will remain blighted, and I don't want that to be any suburban resident or tourists' first view of our downtown. Secondly, how many people would actually take light rail downtown if they then had to wait for a bus to get to work or go to a restaurant? You've got two completely different fares, waiting time for the bus and then the speed of bus travel. I think it would discourage people from using mass transit, personally. I think any light rail that will be used has to be within walking distance of the attractions most people want to visit, or their work, and that walk has to be safe and attractive. Otherwise, we've spent a lot of money to say we have light rail, and no one is going to use it.

  10. #11

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    so my question is, what would be the cost from say Edmond to my job downtown?

  11. Default Re: Light rail layout

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    Personally, I'd like to see it in the area just south and directly behind or east of the Ford Center. That way, it could open onto our new boulevard, which be a great place for east-west access to Bricktown and the CBD.
    when i looked at the C2S layouts... that's where a new station would be located. i still don't understand what would be so hard about connecting the tracks to that location. still... do those tracks take us anywhere we would want to go?

  12. Default Re: Light rail layout

    Quote Originally Posted by hipsterdoofus View Post
    so my question is, what would be the cost from say Edmond to my job downtown?
    Probably $2 for a single ride ticket. Less if you buy a monthly pass.

  13. #14

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Quote Originally Posted by CuatrodeMayo View Post
    Probably $2 for a single ride ticket. Less if you buy a monthly pass.
    Its like $2.25 just for an express bus pass...do you think it would be cheaper to take the train then the bus? Seems like it would have to be more.

  14. Default Re: Light rail layout

    Every rail system I have ridden has not cost more than $2.50.

  15. #16

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    I wonder if the cities would be on board with the parking lots?

  16. #17

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Too many stops would render a long route (say 10 miles) unbearable. Somebody check my math: Stop every mile (see OP); peak speed 60 mph to average 20 mph; two minutes in each station = 5 minutes per mile, so 10 miles = 50 minutes.

    Compare a 20 mpg, $4.00/gallon passenger car on the same route: 10 miles = 15 minutes = $2.00 in gas, plus around $10.00 in car depreciation ($0.50/mile). You gain time & convenience, but lose in overall cost.

    Round-trip train: 1 hr, 40 minutes + $4.00.
    Round-trip car: 30 minutes + $24.00.

    Q: Is 1 hour, 10 minutes each day worth $20.00 to you?
    A:

  17. #18

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    Too many stops would render a long route (say 10 miles) unbearable. Somebody check my math: Stop every mile (see OP); peak speed 60 mph to average 20 mph; two minutes in each station = 5 minutes per mile, so 10 miles = 50 minutes.

    Compare a 20 mpg, $4.00/gallon passenger car on the same route: 10 miles = 15 minutes = $2.00 in gas, plus around $10.00 in car depreciation ($0.50/mile). You gain time & convenience, but lose in overall cost.

    Round-trip train: 1 hr, 40 minutes + $4.00.
    Round-trip car: 30 minutes + $24.00.

    Q: Is 1 hour, 10 minutes each day worth $20.00 to you?
    A:
    I think thats why it would be important to have more express runs with large parking lots at those stops. Theres probably a place for the multiple stops, but not as much.

  18. Default Re: Light rail layout

    Exactly on express trains.

  19. #20

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Quote Originally Posted by hipsterdoofus View Post
    I think thats why it would be important to have more express runs with large parking lots at those stops. Theres probably a place for the multiple stops, but not as much.
    ::Money-grubbing capitalist pig clearing his throat::
    Um, gee, so where do you suppose they'd be buying the land for those large, convenient, park-and-ride stations with acres of free parking? I'm just curious, not that I'd want to speculate on buying real estate, not with interest rates a little above 5%.

  20. #21

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Its funny, now that gas prices are high, I find myself driving to work every day thinking "what a waste" with those thousands of other cars next to me...

  21. #22

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    I think it's a waste more in terms of using energy resources that are finite. Any light rail will cost the city (us) billions, and will probably have to be subsidized to keep prices reasonable. So, we probably won't personally end up saving that much, but it's better for the environment, and there are better uses for oil than us riding individually in cars, IMO.

  22. Default Re: Light rail layout

    Absolutely Union Station is not going to work for a system like this.

    Today I saw a huge crowd waiting for the bus around 5:00 in front of Robinson Renaissance. Young people, old people, restaurant workers, and businessmen. Clearly ridership is up due to gas prices, but it's not practical if those people have to wait for a bus in front of their building, then ride to Union Station, then wait for a train. I'm with whoever it was recently (Kerry?) that said that it will need to run underground through downtown. There really needs to be a several stops in downtown because of the density. People will walk a few blocks to a station, but will someone at the OG+E building walk all the way to Reno & Shields? That's pretty far in a suit in the Oklahoma heat (or the Oklahoma winter for that matter).

  23. #24

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Why is this so hard to understand? We are moving I-40 six blocks South and moving the rail lines 8 blocks North. Am I the only person that sees how simple and economical that is. Union Station is in the wrong location. The Santa Fe station in Shawnee is pretty darn cool - why don't we use that as the hub?

    If you think either station, Santa Fe/Union, could be used as modern multi-modal transit hub then you are crazy. Bother are way too small to be used for that. We need something that is 3 or 4 times larger than either one of them. Once again I will use MARTA as an example. Five Points station is the main Hub and it is 4 stories and 3 of them are underground. It dwarfs Santa Fe and Union combined.

  24. #25

    Default Re: Light rail layout

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    Too many stops would render a long route (say 10 miles) unbearable. Somebody check my math: Stop every mile (see OP); peak speed 60 mph to average 20 mph; two minutes in each station = 5 minutes per mile, so 10 miles = 50 minutes.

    Compare a 20 mpg, $4.00/gallon passenger car on the same route: 10 miles = 15 minutes = $2.00 in gas, plus around $10.00 in car depreciation ($0.50/mile). You gain time & convenience, but lose in overall cost.

    Round-trip train: 1 hr, 40 minutes + $4.00.
    Round-trip car: 30 minutes + $24.00.

    Q: Is 1 hour, 10 minutes each day worth $20.00 to you?
    A:
    And this is why people won't even consider public transit until gas is at about $6-$6.50 a gallon.

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