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  1. #1

    Default Can there be only one Houston?

    Can we become an Energy Mecca like Houston, or is there only room for one? I would love to see us compete for businesses like they do.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    They have a port. We do not.

    They have a tax scheme which goes really easy on big companies. We do not.

    There's not even a remote comparison. We have three major players here. Houston basically has everything else.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Agreed with the above poster. I had a summer internship gig in Houston this past year and the conglomerate of energy companies down there is in such a mass that I don't think OKC can really "compete" per say.

    OKC is doing just fine in nurturing independent oil companies like Devon, Chesapeake, Sandridge, Dominion, etc. but that doesn't mean its a good environment for Exxon, Conoco, and the like.

    Given whats happening to major oil companies (heavier taxation, horrible PR, declining reserves), thats probably not a bad thing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Houston is also afflicted with some of the worst air quality and traffic congestion in the US. It's not a place I would want to see OKC emulate.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Please. Houston is the most international city in the US. No other city boasts the main residence of foreign royalty. Houston's growth far out-paces just about every metropolitan area and here's the thing: Houston is no Las Vegas or South Florida--it's a real city with a real urban vibe. Houston is so large and so diverse that the only thing that really ties the entire city together is the presence of construction cranes everywhere, including the old wards, historic Galveston Island, the mid-60's period suburbs, and the outer ring suburbs.

    Houston is the most international city in the US in the sense that there are more languages spoken in the city than in any other city in the US. There are about 300 languages spoken in Houston. The metro itself is populated by over 5 million people. That's almost two Oklahomas, and almost 5 OKCs. Houston's secondary airport (Hobby Airport) is busier than Will Rogers, not to mention the Intercontinental behemoth. The Port of Houston is one of the busiest in the World. The Galleria is regarded as one of the finest epicenters of upscale shopping in America.

    The image of construction cranes sums up Houston's prosperity, as well as some of the everyday hassles that Houstonians quickly learn to cope with, but it does not sum up the urban vibe of the city. There are a lot of old historic structures in the Inner Loop. There are a lot of cool warehouse districts. One thing that's uniquely Houston is the dining. There are more restaurants per capita in Houston than anywhere else, and that means a lot of restaurants in a city as huge and as dense as Houston. Houston is unique for its market-driven urban boom, which is purely driven by market forces, and not by municipal or state incentives or projects. Few cities have as much urban construction as Houston. OKC certainly doesn't, and OKC is still in the top tier for urban construction.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Please. Houston is the most international city in the US.
    i stoped reading at this point ..

    please .. new york city ...DC san fran LA ... not houston

  7. #7

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Houston is a fine city but I would rather see OKC diversify beyond energy so that when the next oil bust inevitably comes, we aren't up a creek. Nothing wrong with nourishing the companies that are here, and I would never turn away a company that wanted to move to OKC, but in my opinion, we should focus on building a more well-rounded economy. The biotech industry is promising, aviation probably has room to grow, work on financial services and creative services. People who are not lawyers, doctors or oil industry execs need more high-paying job opportunities in OKC.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Nothing urban comes to mind when I think of Houston. Not to say there arent urban areas because obviously there are, it just takes a long time to get there coming from the outside.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Actually, the state of Oklahoma used to be the "Houston" back in the day. Tulsa was the "Oil Capital of the World." They just all moved to Houston.

    I don't always agree with Spartan, but I agree with every word he said about Houston. It's the 3rd largest city in America and is so far removed from cities of our tier it may as well be on Mars. I have a feeling those who say that Houston doesn't mean anything to them haven't been there.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    I have only heard a bunch of negatives about Houston as far as the quality of life issue. A friend's wife (he worked for boots and coots) hated the place. The air quality and traffic was horrible. They ended moving out to New Mexico.

    I have only seen the inside of their air port myself.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by OU Adonis View Post
    I have only heard a bunch of negatives about Houston as far as the quality of life issue. A friend's wife (he worked for boots and coots) hated the place. The air quality and traffic was horrible. They ended moving out to New Mexico.

    I have only seen the inside of their air port myself.
    The traffic. Yes, it's awful. You always hear LA and Houston have the worst traffic and that's the truth.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    What a coincidence. I went from OKCTalk to another site with this new link:
    Mag: Houston 'Next Great World City'...

    Interesting snippet from the article:

    "In 1960, Houston was the home of hardly any major energy companies, ranking behind New York, Los Angeles, and even Tulsa; today, 16 large companies make their headquarters there, more than all those cities combined."

  13. #13

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by solitude View Post
    It's the 3rd largest city in America...
    Actually Chicago is the third largest city in the US.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerfever View Post
    Actually Chicago is the third largest city in the US.
    Edit: You know what? I was thinking about something else. You're right. Houston is right on their heels though and very well could pass them by 2010.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by solitude View Post
    Houston is right on their heels though and very well could pass them by 2010.
    Yes you are right about that, Solitude. However the MSA aren't that close though. Chicago 9.5 million to Houston at 5.6 million. This according to the US Census estimates. No question that Houston is growing.

  16. Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    I only know Houston from driving through to Galveston trying to get to and from our Cruise port.

    Thank God, I always book a hotel a few days before our ship leaves.

    Based on those experiences, I Hated it! The traffic was horrendous. This coming from dealing with a lifetime of California drivers in rush hour traffic!

    I have friends in Houston who constantly complain about the traffic, air quality and humidity.

    I don't know, some people complain about everything no matter where they live.

    Ask OKCPulse what he thinks? He actually lives there temporarily.
    " You've Been Thunder Struck ! "

  17. #17

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    houston .....is way bigger than okc the economic growth is insane they have 2 very noticable large areas of skyline maybe we should compare to big 'D' never the 'H' after all I think we got more of a dallas feel than houston feel......ps both cities traffic sucks

  18. #18

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by solitude View Post
    What a coincidence. I went from OKCTalk to another site with this new link:
    Mag: Houston 'Next Great World City'...

    Interesting snippet from the article:

    "In 1960, Houston was the home of hardly any major energy companies, ranking behind New York, Los Angeles, and even Tulsa; today, 16 large companies make their headquarters there, more than all those cities combined."
    Another interesting snipped,

    Many seem to share the impression expressed by journalist John Gunther in Inside U.S.A. in 1947 when he described Houston as a place “where few people think about anything but money.”
    And

    Lauding Houston to urban planners is not much different than extolling red meat at a convention of vegans.

    I lived in Houston for a while. It was enjoyable. If you believe that San Francisco is the most international city then you are probably homosexual, if you believe it's LA then you watch too much HollywoodInsider, if you believe it's NYC you didn't know their net internal migration rate for this decade so far has been -7.9% and this decade aint even over yet, if you believe it's DC then you could have a good case up against Houston but you would have to argue the importance of US government contracts over foreign business competition. If you are somebody that can handle living in an urban environment and appreciate the trade-offs you won't mind Houston a bit. The traffic? Read a book. The smog? Buy a portable Ionic Breeze. The people? See a psychiatrist... just kidding. The pollution isn't that bad, and the humidity is good for your skin. Unlike this dry Okie air. The traffic is why you should live in the Inner Loop and not out in Katy for chrissakes.

    OKC? I like OKC. But I liked Houston even more. It was just a really cool place. The key to Houston though is WHERE you put yourself. If you live outside of the loop, well you are literally out of the loop. If you surround yourself with people that are big enough to have a fun time in a city as diverse and big as Houston, you will have a much better time than you would if you surround yourself with small people with small minds.

    And it's funny because I know some people that moved from Houston to Los Alamos, as well. I wonder if we know the same folks, OU Adonis. This guy worked for the National Lab, though and not "boots and coots."

  19. Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Ask OKCPulse what he thinks? He actually lives there temporarily.

    Let me be succinct... I am counting the days. Since moving to the Houston area, I have never spent so much time in the car in my life. I have a greater appreciation for Oklahoma City's planning. Compared to Houston, OKC planned smart.

    It is all in the eye of the beholder. Spartan loves Houston, that's okay. He sees Houston's vibe, I see Houston's out-of-control urban sprawl beyond even its own city boundaries. Just drive along FM 1960 for five miles, the hand count on vacated (and I mean 100 percent vacated) strip malls that were built in the 1980s and 1990s goes beyond your ten fingers.

    If you want to do anything really fun, you have to drive 40 miles and 90 minutes just to do so. Sure, I live in Conroe, north of Houston. But anything south of The Woodlands is expensive and congested.

    Spartan's claim to construction cranes all over Houston is questionable. There are two cranes in downtown Houston where I work. One construction crane west of Houston in I-10 and a few in scattered suburbs. Compare that to Dallas, where last year when driving back to OKC I saw at least 12 cranes high in the sky.

    I will say I enjoy the buildings in Houston. Reliant Stadium is kick-ass. Toyota Center is okay. But the excitement for me is in Oklahoma City where something magical is happening. And next month, I am coming to OKC for a vacation. It's been over a year and I need a break from Texas.
    Continue the Renaissance!!!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Don't forget Miami, Miami is a melting pot of culture. Tons of immigrants from South America, Caribbean, Latin America, and Europe.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Miami is a third world nation, and okcpulse, you left out everything in Montrose, the Houston Heights, Upper Kirby, the Galleria, and River Oaks, and there are actually 3 towers proposed or u/c right now in downtown alone-the mixed-use Houston Pavilions, CityCenter, and one on Main that is demo'ing a bunch of historic buildings I'd rather keep. The one on I-10 you're probably referring to is actually one of the ones at the Loop 610 interchange..and not one of the actual towers being constructed in the Energy Corridor that runs along I-10 west from the Loop 610 out to Katy. And this is beyond me why somebody excited by urban OKC would not be excited by urban Houston, hence you work in downtown Houston and LIVE in Conroe. That must be at least an hour and a half commute each way. That's about as bad as my commute from north-of-I-40 down to Norman. If you don't like traffic and you don't like Houston, why do such a commute. You probably could have found something affordable closer in. Even Katy or Kingwood are closer into Houston. There are actually affordable urban abodes in Houston because there they are NOT market anomalies like they are here. If you had to have the suburban tract home reminiscent of OKC you probably could have found something affordable and close-in (with a much less congested commute) in one of the better areas of Pasadena (the south half as opposed to its northern half.

    The only positive thing about Conroe that I can say is nice lake area, nice greenery, and it has a Pappadeaux so I'm sure it's 'livable'.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by okcpulse View Post
    Ask OKCPulse what he thinks? He actually lives there temporarily.

    Let me be succinct... I am counting the days. Since moving to the Houston area, I have never spent so much time in the car in my life. I have a greater appreciation for Oklahoma City's planning. Compared to Houston, OKC planned smart.

    It is all in the eye of the beholder. Spartan loves Houston, that's okay. He sees Houston's vibe, I see Houston's out-of-control urban sprawl beyond even its own city boundaries. Just drive along FM 1960 for five miles, the hand count on vacated (and I mean 100 percent vacated) strip malls that were built in the 1980s and 1990s goes beyond your ten fingers.

    If you want to do anything really fun, you have to drive 40 miles and 90 minutes just to do so. Sure, I live in Conroe, north of Houston. But anything south of The Woodlands is expensive and congested.

    Spartan's claim to construction cranes all over Houston is questionable. There are two cranes in downtown Houston where I work. One construction crane west of Houston in I-10 and a few in scattered suburbs. Compare that to Dallas, where last year when driving back to OKC I saw at least 12 cranes high in the sky.

    I will say I enjoy the buildings in Houston. Reliant Stadium is kick-ass. Toyota Center is okay. But the excitement for me is in Oklahoma City where something magical is happening. And next month, I am coming to OKC for a vacation. It's been over a year and I need a break from Texas.
    With all do respect, there is a huge difference between living in Conroe and living inside the loop in Houston. Living in Conroe is like living in Guthrie.

    Also, townhomes and condos are significantly cheaper inside the loop in Houston than they are around Bricktown.

    That being said, I'd rather live in OKC too.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Miami is a third world nation, and okcpulse, you left out everything in Montrose, the Houston Heights, Upper Kirby, the Galleria, and River Oaks, and there are actually 3 towers proposed or u/c right now in downtown alone-the mixed-use Houston Pavilions, CityCenter, and one on Main that is demo'ing a bunch of historic buildings I'd rather keep. The one on I-10 you're probably referring to is actually one of the ones at the Loop 610 interchange..and not one of the actual towers being constructed in the Energy Corridor that runs along I-10 west from the Loop 610 out to Katy. And this is beyond me why somebody excited by urban OKC would not be excited by urban Houston, hence you work in downtown Houston and LIVE in Conroe. That must be at least an hour and a half commute each way. That's about as bad as my commute from north-of-I-40 down to Norman. If you don't like traffic and you don't like Houston, why do such a commute. You probably could have found something affordable closer in. Even Katy or Kingwood are closer into Houston. There are actually affordable urban abodes in Houston because there they are NOT market anomalies like they are here. If you had to have the suburban tract home reminiscent of OKC you probably could have found something affordable and close-in (with a much less congested commute) in one of the better areas of Pasadena (the south half as opposed to its northern half.

    The only positive thing about Conroe that I can say is nice lake area, nice greenery, and it has a Pappadeaux so I'm sure it's 'livable'.
    Says who, your former moniker SoonerRiceGrad or Spartan? Yes Houston is an international city, no denying that, but to say it is the most international in the U.S. is merely your opinion. You can't prove it is a "fact". There are obviously many others on this board alone, let alone thousands of other websites that would claim cities such as San Fran, LA, Miami, NY or Chicago are more international. The truth is, they all are. If you love Houston so much, why don't you move there instead of OKC.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    to say it is the most international in the U.S. is merely your opinion.
    An opinion that loses a lot of credibility after the following sentiments:

    If you believe that San Francisco is the most international city then you are probably homosexual, if you believe it's LA then you watch too much HollywoodInsider...
    Seriously, what does any of that have to do with anything?

    I wouldn't argue that SF is the most international city in the US, but I have no idea why such an opinion would be exclusive to people who like to date people of the same sex. If you for some reason think San Francisco is exclusively or even predominantly gay, then it seems you probably have less insight into the culture of these cities than you're trying to represent.

    LA's is pretty international and it has little to do with its film industry. It's international community is certainly less visibly organized than you find in more urban cities, but you're not going to find many cultures that aren't well represented in Southern California.

    As for Houston, I agree with your depiction of it being one of the most international cities in the country. It's extremely diverse, it just doesn't do as good of a job marketing or maybe even celebrating that aspect of its culture. It's a very Texas First culture. But still, you have to be a homosexual to recognize San Francisco as an international city on par with Houston?? That's bizarre.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Can there be only one Houston?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    And it's funny because I know some people that moved from Houston to Los Alamos, as well. I wonder if we know the same folks, OU Adonis. This guy worked for the National Lab, though and not "boots and coots."
    I could of sworn it was Boots, but I could be mistaken. He moved from NM to OKC where he met his wife. They moved to Houston, then he moved back to NM. He was originally from NM.

    I believe he was a petrolium engineer.

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