First Americans Museum

[dankrutka]

Yes - we know they don't want it. Several of the State tribes have spoken out against it becasue they are afraid it will take away from their local cultural centers. I'll see if I can find the newspaper articles.

Several or all? Because several tribes have also supported the center... and been much more vocal about it.

[Just the facts]

I'll tell you what - I am going to admit defeat and bow out of this discussion. If the tribes in Oklahoma want the center completed they can pony up more than the $5 million they have provided so far. If the people of Oklahoma want it completed they can provide the rest of the $170 million.

[bombermwc]

That's entirely the point of the discussion. If someone wanted to pay to have the place completed, they would have already...be it a tribe, the state, private funding, etc. We haven't really seen much of a push from anywhere to make that happen either. So from the outside, it would appear that there aren't too many people with cash, interested in helping to complete the project. So whatever your opinion on the tribes or the state or whatever, unless there's a funding source to complete the project, it doesn't even matter what the operating budget will look like (and there's no way it will be self-sustaining so be ready to help pay for it).

[USG'60]

Should those who scammed us into this then be called on to reimburse the city, the state or whoever has put funds into it so far. Evidently they were dilusional when they concocted it. Maybe they should serve a little time for it. They should at least have to explain to the tribes and the taxpayers what made them think it was a good idea and why they were confident enough that the project got started.

Maybe we can sell the shell that exists to some private concern and use the money to save Stage Center.

[Boomer3791]

Has anyone seen this video yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNjWeLKHEeo&sns=em
It was tweeted by Shoshanna Wasserman with the AICCM this morning. It was paid for by the Chickasaw nation and features two former governors and is titled "Finish It." It's an interesting video, mainly because it's unclear who the intended audience is. Taxpayers? Legislators? CEO's of OKC companies? I'd love to get everyone's thoughts on this.

[sroberts24]

I saw it on the news yesterday morning.

[kevinpate]

... It's an interesting video, mainly because it's unclear who the intended audience is. Taxpayers? Legislators? CEO's ...

Yes, to all these, and others as well. It's a fair piece of work, though it would of been nice to see a current politico or three also stand up.

[Boomer3791]

But where's the call to action? The AICCM has tried and failed twice to get a vote on funding a bond issue out of committee in the state legislature. It doesn't appear that anyone at the capitol has any appetite for supplying state funds (even ones that would be paid back over time) to complete this project. I have to believe thats because the majority of Oklahomans aren't in favor of such legislation either. Perhaps this video is intended to change public opinion and put pressure on the legislature to take a fresh look at funding alternatives.

[kevinpate]

Nah, drop some funds over Tulsa way and I suspect this cultural project will also "pop" in available funds.

[OKC@heart]

That was a very well done video, and it captured several key things that will (I hope) 1. Raise Awareness of how significant a facility that this really is. 2. Showcases its integral nature in relation to the Downtown renaissance. 3. Addresses the fact that a project with as significant public investment that has been made has the ability to simply not be completed, sends an unintended message of instability and very well could give developers pause before they push forward serious plans in the area. 4. Allow for the continued momentum of what has been evolving in the downtown area to continue to build off of itself.

It was nice to see many of our leaders of the past who recognize the intense detrimental impacts of this project being left to flounder in the shadows of downtown. There is no hiding this place, is is right down the river from the courses and will be a source of national and international exposure for good (if completed) or ill (if not) The Landform and the striking buildings will draw attention unto itself and so there will be no way for OKC or Oklahoma in general to hide this unfinished project. So we may as well realize that the unfinished project could cost us far more in losses due to the negative PR that we will get, for the negative perceptions that will be reinforced or taken away from this if not completed, such as: That we do not value our history, that we can't live up to what we have been advertising, issues of race and the list goes on and on....the biggest issue is that we will not be able to control the way the rest of America or the world for that matter will take this and run with it.

This project IS critical to get completed because we are too far along for us not to, we have used it as a feather in our chamber videos that have been at the major development conferences and anywhere else we can get them played showcasing Oklahoma and its capitol city. Even the cost of shuttering it for a while and then at some future point dusting off the plans and completing, will cost far more as there will be significant cost increases anytime you demobilize the site and then have to start back up, plus the costs of labor and materials and on and on and on....

The decision to build this facility was made long ago and so there is nothing that can undo that, those dollars are spent, the cost of not completing it are incalculable. Even from a fiscal responsibility standpoint, if you have already ordered the dinner and your date has eaten half of hers already, and you then realize that you do not have the money, you have to work out a way to pay it, or be prepared to wash the dishes. But one thing is for certain, even if you begrudgingly wash the dishes, yes you have met the obligation, but the date that you were hoping to go well is over....(Feel free to insert the developers, Large Corporations looking to relocate etc... into the role of the date in the analogy)

You can be assured that there are many very key people who are keeping an eye on our state and city with interest, and they are waiting for us to support our claims of being world class or waiting for us to falter. The simple fact that we have run into budget issues on the project does not doom nor define us, however how we respond to the challenges that face us do. So so we just try and brush this one under the rug and wait until some casino decides to pony up the money for the land and facility and then become the laughingstock of the nation? Or do we work to identify a viable solution to deliver a promise that was begun a long time ago and let the expense finally mature to the point that it can begin having economic impact to our area. There is no doubt that this will become every bit if not more renowned than the National Cowboy Hall of Fame.

It is my hope that years from now we will recognize this moment for what it is, a pivotal one that had lasting and unimaginable economic impacts on our city.

The Rowing venue is one of Oklahoma's most currently relevant venues for increasing international exposure for something (other than the Thunder.) of permanence and place. When there are significant races being held here they will be looking for shots to showcase its location and this is immediately adjacent to the course!!!! Even in Europe there is a familiarity with the plight and issues of the Native Americans on this continent. You cannot buy this type of public advertising that will be a boon to tourism to our city and state.

We must finish this project.

[earlywinegareth]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_CUTLIN904400

According to this article from May 2011, the project is not dead, it's on a strategic pause. State leaders had questions that needed to be answered.

[Doug Loudenback]

Well said, OKC@heart, bravo.

[Just the facts]

Throwing good money after bad money is not a solution. Who keeps in investing in boondoggles after they are discovered to be boondoggles? Just like in poker, once you realize you have a losing hand it is best to fold. Save your money for a winning hand.

[Architect2010]

So enough with the figurative crap; I don't know what the hell a boondoggle is, and I'm not sure I wanna know.

This is not just like poker. In fact, this is a state-wide, public/private, multi-million dollar collaborative project between governments. This is not as easy as a "losing" or "winning" hand, I assure you.

[Just the facts]

I don't know what the hell a boondoggle is...

Boondoggle: a wasteful or impractical project or activity often involving graft

Graft: the acquisition of gain (as money) in dishonest or questionable ways; also : illegal or unfair gain


This project was funded under the outrageous claim that it would generate over $2.6 billion in revenue in the next 20 years. That simply is not possible. The State Legislature was lied to in order get funding for this project. The people who pushed this project should be investigated and sent to prison.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic..._1__OKLAH08807

According to a 2003 economic impact study by Applied Economics, the total economic benefit of the American Indian Cultural Center to the state economy over 20 years could reach $2.6 billion. The annual impact could be as much as $128.8 million, the study found.

If $150 million could be turned into $2.6 billion in 20 years the private sector would be all over this in a heartbeat.

[RodH]

Throwing good money after bad money is not a solution. Who keeps in investing in boondoggles after they are discovered to be boondoggles? Just like in poker, once you realize you have a losing hand it is best to fold. Save your money for a winning hand.

This bb is filled with literally hundreds of ideas from all over the world that you have proposed for OKC. AICCM is something that is uniquely Oklahoma. OKC@heart eloquently stated what is at stake here. How can you consider this project a boondoggle? Surely it is at least as worthy of our support as many of the projects that you have proposed for development.

[Rover]

Throwing good money after bad money is not a solution. Who keeps in investing in boondoggles after they are discovered to be boondoggles? Just like in poker, once you realize you have a losing hand it is best to fold. Save your money for a winning hand.

Is this just another comment to throw out there to start conversation or are you serious?

Throwing away good money already sunk on a good idea is an ignorant idea. Asking questions about the controls of expenditures is fine. Understanding the legitimacy of the answers is required. Judicious spending of public money is expected. Holding this project hostage to make a political point is small minded.

This project deserves to be completed. If there is malfeasance then it needs to be attended to, but the project should not be cancelled and the money already spent wasted.

[Just the facts]

Indians are not unique to Oklahoma.

[Rover]

Indians are not unique to Oklahoma.

Of course not. After all, Oklahoma is Italian for home of the Romans isn't it?

[dankrutka]

Indians are not unique to Oklahoma.

Another argument where Just the Facts is just throwing crap against the wall to see if it sticks.

Anyway, Native American heritage is a huge part of Oklahoma's heritage. Forced removal to OK makes our history unique. Not sure why you are arguing a point so obvious. Probably just to be a pain...

[ABryant]

Indians are not unique to Oklahoma.

Oklahoma has a unique history including the natives.

[Just the facts]

Of course not. After all, Oklahoma is Italian for home of the Romans isn't it?

Do you really want a list of all the states and cities named after Indians? You guys are trying to sell something that is available in every sq inch of America. No one is going to buy the product when everyone gets it in their own backyard for free.

[dankrutka]

Do you really want a list of all the states and cities named after Indians? You guys are trying to sell something that is available in every sq inch of America. No one is going to buy the product when everyone gets it in their own backyard for free.

Are you joking or a joke? READ A HISTORY BOOK! American Indians were forced from across the US to OKLAHOMA! How can you not get the historical significance for our state?

[Architect2010]

Do you really want a list of all the states and cities named after Indians? You guys are trying to sell something that is available in every sq inch of America. No one is going to buy the product when everyone gets it in their own backyard for free.

Boondoggle. Lmao.

[Larry OKC]

Do you really want a list of all the states and cities named after Indians? You guys are trying to sell something that is available in every sq inch of America. No one is going to buy the product when everyone gets it in their own backyard for free.

So thats why tourists come to the state every year and spend millions just to see something they could see for free at home. OK, you win.