Union Station - Transit Discussions

[edcrunk]

kerry... i say that because i don't want to pour salt on a wound or stick my thumb in anyone's eye. basically i'm not trying to be a c*ck.
the yard is special to him and i will pour some liquor out upon it's demise.
if ODG & METRO vouch for tom... then i take their word that he is an honorable and knowledgeable guy.

[jbrown84]

I went down a couple days ago to check out the yard. I'd explored the outside of the terminal before, but not in the back. There are three sets of tracks. I hardly see why it is such a big deal.

I do wish the underpasses at Robinson and Walker could be saved however. I only discovered those in the last year and think they are very cool.

[edcrunk]

i've always liked the underpasses as well. they are in the "new deal" type of style (which is similar to the walnut street bridge) from the 30's.

[Tom Elmore]

Perhaps of interest:

Tulsa Councilman says Amtrak Extension Plan "off track..."

Tulsa World: Councilor says idea is off track

[Tom Elmore]

UTAH - "FRONT RUNNER" COMMUTER TRAIN DEVELOPMENT CHRONOLOGY

Remember this: If you don't count Ernest Istook, Utah has achieved this and other modern multimodal transportation developments with only 3 US House Districts.

Of course, officials out there say they've "already nailed the fourth seat for the 2010 census." The question is, where is that seat gonna come from since there are only 435 to be had? Which state has the weakest economy in the region -- and which state's leaders have the least vision and drive to improve quality of life and the general economy for their citizens?

Oklahomans might want to think about this.

UTA FrontRunner Commuter Rail

[Tom Elmore]

Nashville "Music City Star" commuter rail:

http://www.musiccitystar.org/

[Tom Elmore]

New Mexico "RAIL RUNNER EXPRESS" commuter trains service:

Official Site of the New Mexico Rail Runner Express

[Tom Elmore]

Austin, Texas -- Capital Metro rail

http://allsystemsgo.capmetro.org/

[Tom Elmore]

USA "Vintage Trolley" system resources:

Vintage Trolley Systems by John Smatlak

[Tom Elmore]

Little Rock "River Rail" trolleys:

CAT:The River Rail System

[metro]

Tom, you'd probably be better received from other posters if you condensed your links in one post instead of 7 within the last 35 minutes.

[Tom Elmore]

Yep, Metro -- you're right. I should've condensed the information. Doesn't look like there's a way to delete and re-edit, however, so kindly put up with me this once and I'll try to do better in the future.

TOM ELMORE

[yukong]

Just saw a blurb on news9 about the feds putting some sort of stop on the new crosstown because of false information being submitted about the Union Station yard and tracks. I wasn't fully listening to what was said...Tom, someone...what is going on. Are we going to be able to save that gem?

[Tom Elmore]

Decision: 06/05/2008 - AB_6_430_X

[yukong]

Well, I read it, and understand what it says...but what does it mean for the long term as far as Union Station yard is concerned?

Thanks Tom...and you did good on the News9 report last night.

[Tom Elmore]

The decision voids the September, 2005 BNSF abadonment application "ab initio," because BNSF -- backed closely by ODOT -- methodically misrepresented meeting the qualifying standards allowing the abandoment.

BNSF has insisted there is no demand for rail service on this line. Of course, ODOT has run off most of the longstanding businesses in the corridor. However, BNSF, again in league with ODOT, has continued to serve one of the largest carload generating businesses in the state -- Producers Coop Oil Mill -- from this line.

They have had no choice but to misrpresent the situation for many different reasons stemming from the chaos ODOT has created in somewhat intricate and long standing railway infrastructure between Byers and Santa Fe Avenues.

It was apparently the day following the crashing defeat of Neal McCaleb's "State Question 723" effort to raise our fuel taxes that BNSF crews were called to cut the old delivery lead (a rail line from mainline track to industry) from the former Frisco line (the southerly track from Union Station) east of Santa Fe Avenue -- so that the former Rock Island (northerly) track could be moved to accommodate ODOT's digging around the "southerly extension of the Bricktown Canal."

This cut wholesale lumber company, Midstates Lumber, off from its vital direct rail access. Since that day, the Oklahoma Department of Transportation has apparently been paying (your money and mine) to truck Midstates' business between its facility (just north of the Producers Coop Mill) to a remote rail facility. All of this -- while BNSF, in league with ODOT, insisted there is no demand for rail service.

The short way to tell the story is that ODOT has lied, like water running, with utter impunity since the beginning of this whole mess -- as it lies about pretty much everything else. But, in this case, the lies appear to be catching up to the liars.

If you lie to the federal Surface Transportation Board, they will void your proceeding "ab initio."

So -- if BNSF, in league with ODOT, persists in attempts to formally abandon this key Union Station yard segment and rail line, they will have to begin all over again, at square one -- of a lenghty process. However, this time they do so with the full knowledge of the STB that they have deliberately, persistently misrepresented the situation -- while calling those of us pointing out the truth, "liars."

While we all recognize that "lying" only seems to be considered outrageous and extraordinary if a "baseball player does it before the US Congress," this little deal is manifestly very serious and its gravity may well continue to reverberate through the halls, both of the STB, and, hopefully, of ODOT and this absurd effort to destroy the center of the state's railway network.

Remember what Gary Ridley, the "P.E. without a dee-gree," told me when I asked him why ODOT had never seriously addressed, let alone actually responded to any of the many, very highly documented concerns brought against the ODOT's plan to destroy the rail yard by Oklahoma Citizens.

"Well, Tom, there WAS a time when we didn't even have to ASK you what you thought," he sneered.

Once again -- we're "telling him what we think," whether he wants to hear it or not.

In any case, as I hope you can see -- reports of "the death of the Union Station rail yard" appear to have been "slightly exaggerated..."

TOM ELMORE

[oneforone]

Thanks Tom, now we get to see are governemnt piss away more tax dollars to run around in circles for a few months. In the end, the project will continue and take even longer to complete.

Meanwhile the crosstown will continue to crumble until cars fall through the decking.

Lightrail would be nice but, not at the expense of the taxpayers. If the taxpayers build it, the taxpayers will fund it forever.

Lightrail wil make Tom Elmore a rich man. Why else would he want taxpayers to pay for it?

[Tom Elmore]

Our state is run by thugs.

This is acceptable to you?

Does it mean anything to you?

Do you bear any responsibility to deal with it?

Those of us who have called government and its minions to account in this matter have no financial stake in it -- period (other than what it has cost us over the last 15 years).

What's at stake is the integrity of our government and economic and mobility futures of this state.

Talk is cheap. Work is expensive.

It doesn't cost you much to finger that keyboard, friend.

Done anything else lately?

TOM ELMORE

[betts]

My question would be, if I understand this correctly, if the railroad that owns the lines doesn't want them, and if the city doesn't want them, what is the point of this? Again, this is a lousy location for a mass trans station, I see a north-south line as being much more important, and we're not talking about light rail anyway.

[okiebadger]

I once had a dream. I dreampt that I would be able to drive along I-40, without dodging holes at least one, time before I die. I also dreampt that I could enjoy Oklahoma City's Central Park at least once without being brought here in a wheelchair by my granddaughter. My life expectancy at this time is about 26.2 years and it appears that Tom Elmore is determined to delay the construction of a decent highway long enough to make my dream a vain hope.

Tom, your platitudes are so general that they apply to you as well as they apply to anyone.
"What's at stake is the integrity of our government and economic and mobility futures of this state.

Talk is cheap. Work is expensive.

It doesn't cost you much to finger that keyboard, friend.

Done anything else lately?"


Look in the mirror my friend.

[Tom Elmore]

...you know, Badg, I can't even find my mirror these days for the dusty stacks of "hundred dollar bills I've been raking in all these years."

It's a real problem around here.

And the price of motor fuel again this morning was --- (?)

(All together now...)

TOM ELMORE

[okiebadger]

Perhaps you have hundred dollar bills. I don't. And I'm still dodging potholes.

[betts]

Although fuel prices are high, and I agree that we need to start looking at light rail, I still say it needs to be very carefully considered, with lines going precisely where we can get riders. We don't need extremely expensive rail with no riders. I'm thinking more and more that Memorial Road might end up being as important a east-west route as any. But regardless, I have a mini Cooper and my husband is buying a Prius. I can travel the 20 miles my daughter rides on Marta in Atlanta for less in my car (and my husband even less) than she spends for Marta. Although rail is going to be important, it needs to be very carefully thought out and planning needs to look at future needs of our population in terms of location and destinations. In the mean time, I think promoting fuel efficient cars is as important as light rail in terms of cost-benefit analysis.

[yukong]

Well, count me as one on board for saving the yard and trying to restore some rail use through that historic area. Why can't they move the interstate 50 yards south of the yard?

[Tom Elmore]

Paul the Apostle comments on Esau's sale of the birthright of his father for a single meal -- a little "momentary personal comfort" -- like this: Don't be profane, like this man.

Look at the metro rail map on the opening page: NATI - Solutions to the Nation's Transportation Problems

OKC Union Station's yard is the center of, not just the state, but the region's existing rail lines. We have it today. It is in our hands -- thanks to far-sighted forbears who left it here for our use.

Development and quality of life flows to efficient transportation corridors. It's axiomatic -- a "lead pipe cinch." That's the way it has always been, and the way it is today -- which is why the most valuable property in any of America's "new transit cities" is any property adjacent to the rail transit corridors. Of this, the "plum property" surrounds the central terminals. (Check it for yourself. Educate yourself on this matter while there's time.)

Jacobs Carter Burgess - Information Center / Intermodal Centers: More Than Transit Hubs

Don't you ever wonder why people who can't keep up the highway system they're charged with managing are so hell-bent to destroy the center of the state's railways?

Don't you understand that a mature central rail system frees resources to provide better roads -- and that the automobile, driven by suburban and rural dwellers to park-and-ride lots in cities across the nation today -- is part of the multimodal system we must have here to compete? It's not an "either-or situation." It's each mode supporting and making the others better and more user-friendly -- or, perhaps in the near future, simply "affordable."

A few honest citizens working against all odds for many years have given Oklahomans yet another opportunity to stop -- and think -- about the future and the rapidly diminishing alternatives we've left ourselves to meet it. We can leave ourselves in the hands of the "pothole kings," or we can grasp the opportunity and historic assets that we still, thankfully, have.

Be certain that with costs rising and revenues falling, cities that already have modern transit systems on the ground and operating will likely be first in line for boosted federal funding.

That leaves all the others -- the long list of unprepared cities standing in line, empty cups in hand. The only thing that differentiates Oklahoma City from any of these -- is our existing rail network and our Union Station yard.

Throw that away -- and "get back in line" with "completely unprepared."

TOM ELMORE
NATI - Solutions to the Nation's Transportation Problems