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  1. Smile Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    I was listening to Myron Patton today on the Ref 1400 AM sports talk, and he was challenging the naysayers out there to give him a legitimate reason as to why we shouldn't vote YES to the Ford Center upgrade. He said he was tired of people talking about needing the money that's generated from the extra penny sales tax to be used for roads around OKC. The one thing that wasn't mentioned was the fact that we overwhelmingly passed a bond issue that will address roads and other important things in our city. In fact, there will be $500 Million spent on roads alone. I wanted to call in and mention that, but I didn't have a chance. Myron hit the nail on the head when he stated that he's been to MANY other cities with bad roads and that there is NO city in the nation that is perfect. He went on to say that he wanted someone to call in and name THE PERFECT CITY and he would gladly move there. I was laughing SO hard and saying AMEN MYRON! The point is, there are a lot of people who are blind to the BIG PICTURE of what this city will become if we pass this vote. It's as if they don't believe this city can rise to the next level. I know that I don't want to hear them complain if we don't land any high-paying jobs in the future. They say that there's no proof that it helps our city economically, but I say that there's no proof that it won't. I think that this vote will pass with flying colors and I hope these naysayers either move out or admit the fact that this city IS growing and WILL grow into the future despite the rhetoric they are trying to make people believe. My take is that the majority of OKC residents see the big picture and will vote for an even more progressive and prosperous city and region.

  2. Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    The "fix our roads first" argument holds no water. Like you said, no city is perfect. If every city had to fix every problem before trying to attract a team, the NBA, NFL and NHL would not exist. It's too scary to even imagine such a world...

    Vote YES!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    I heard exactly the same thing on the Sports Animal this afternoon. People were talking about roads and schools. I thought: These are the people who will be voting (or just complaining) and they don't even realize that they(or someone) just passed a new bond issue for roads in December totalling almost half a billion dollars, and that we're right in the middle of the MAPS for Kids tax which will raise over $800 million for city schools.

    The other thing which people seem to fail to realize is that one of the problems with city schools is that many people with higher incomes moved to suburbia. There aren't a lot of newer homes being built in Oklahoma City proper to increase property tax collection. One solution to that is to make it more entertaining to live in the city....to live nearer to all the excitement. You've got to have entertainment options to make that happen, and the NBA would be a great one. We shouldn't stop there, but it's certainly would make a great part of the package. I think what's being done in the Triangle and what's planned for Core to Shore is a great start. These are homes that will have property taxes ranging from $1,000+ to over $10,000 a year, which will pump money back into OKC schools. As closer in neighborhoods become more desirable and are renovated, selling prices will increase and that too will increase property taxes and again.....funnel money back into the schools.

    So, one of the keys to improving schools is to bring people back to Oklahoma City to live, and the NBA is a great place to start.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    does anyone know if they have done any polling of this vote... I really hope it's an overwhelming yes.. because it would make me sick if we got this close, but the idiots ruined it... sorry no offense to the idiots

  5. #5

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Streets and NBA are apples and oranges.

    That being said, the city has surveyed residents a couple of times in the past few years about their concerns and streets have always been far and away the top priority. It's one of the few concerns shared by almost every resident, regardless of age, income or neighborhood. The money approved in last year's bond issue will go a long way toward repairing and upgrading our streets, but they won't be perfect when all the work is completed, and it's a mistake to think that bond issue will 'fix' our streets. It's just a very good start.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Streets are never "fixed", and as long as we use automobiles the way we do and we have the weather we have, they will deteriorate as fast or faster than we can repair them. But, I agree. Streets and the NBA are apples and oranges, and having voted to repair streets doesn't mean we cannot vote to fix up the Ford Center, which will also be a victim of entropy. If we don't fix it up now, I bet it will be on MAPS3 and we'll spend the same money, but won't have a team.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    What kills me is that these NBA naysayers were nowhere to be found when we were passing a $75 million dollar bond issue for "business development" (Prop 11), which was a terrible and ambiguous piece of legislation compared to the Ford Center proposal.

    I can only conclude that many of them are either only casual participants in the political process, or are just generally clueless.

    If someone is against this current proposal, but didn't pay attention the last go-round, in my mind, they lose a great deal of credibility.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    What kills me is that these NBA naysayers were nowhere to be found when we were passing a $75 million dollar bond issue for "business development" (Prop 11), which was a terrible and ambiguous piece of legislation compared to the Ford Center proposal.

    I can only conclude that many of them are either only casual participants in the political process, or are just generally clueless.

    If someone is against this current proposal, but didn't pay attention the last go-round, in my mind, they lose a great deal of credibility.
    It's the billions! As I've said, I'm pretty sure the NBA payroll will be bigger than Dell's, and I think I'd probably enjoy a team a lot more than I've enjoyed Dell. Not saying it's not great to have new businesses here, but I suspect the owner of Dell is as wealthy as any of the Sonics' owners, and I didn't hear anyone griping about giving him a handout. He doesn't even live here and pay taxes, like the Sonics' owners do.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    That $75 million Prop 11 didn't get a lot of publicity from the bond issue proponents, either. I think they were hoping it would fly under the radar, which it apparently did.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    The other thing which people seem to fail to realize is that one of the problems with city schools is that many people with higher incomes moved to suburbia.... One solution to that is to make it more entertaining to live in the city....to live nearer to all the excitement. You've got to have entertainment options to make that happen, and the NBA would be a great one. We shouldn't stop there, but it's certainly would make a great part of the package.
    This is so true and so often overlooked. No one wants to upset the surrounding communities and the reality is that we have to all work together, but the surburban exodus is one reason why Oklahoma City has struggled so often to gain any competitive advantage in quality of life (not just cost of living). Instead of having a million + living in the vast municipality known as Oklahoma City, it's several communities and several municipalities that make up our population. It is like this everywhere, but here resources are spread much thinner over more communities.

    Like you said, the city has to gain some competitive advantages over both the surrounding communities and the entire region. Having top tier facilities for events is one wys to do this and something that we can afford that our suburbs can not. I'm not trying to run down the suburbs or go off on a sprawl tangent, but Oklahoma City needs to realize that to stay relevant it has to offer some real alternatives to living in the surrounding communities. Denser urban living and the conveniences associated with it, robust public transportation, and easy access to marquee events are all possible that could once again make Oklahoma City proper the preferred living area in the metro for many people. And the best part about holding the marquee events in the city is that it is a way to generate sales tax revenue through increased traffic from people who are going to live in the suburbs no matter what.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bornhere View Post
    That $75 million Prop 11 didn't get a lot of publicity from the bond issue proponents, either. I think they were hoping it would fly under the radar, which it apparently did.
    Yep. But if someone is going to pass themselves off as a "concerned citizen" who cares enough to go to city council meetings, their silence on such issues as Prop 11 leads me to believe that they have other motives, or are really not that concerned.

    I was about as vocal an opponent of prop 11 as there ever was. No one seemed to understand what it was, or even care. Nor did it seem to bother anyone that there was a 10% interest cap on these municipal bonds (which is ridiculous).

  12. #12

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clock4869 View Post
    does anyone know if they have done any polling of this vote... I really hope it's an overwhelming yes.. because it would make me sick if we got this close, but the idiots ruined it... sorry no offense to the idiots
    We'd have to wait for ChamberCyn to confirm, but as of about 3-4 weeks ago, the polls were trending positive for passage. Two factors to consider with that, however:

    1) That "trending" was not what I would call "overwhelming;"
    2) The opposition has had lots of time to build their case.

    That being said, the opposition, while somewhat "organized" is still very grass roots. A lot of people who are voting "no," are really very anti-tax and are not looking at the "right" information. Too many people out there are still grossly uninformed.

    We need to get everyone to call those radio stations and "correct" the dingdongs (including some of our local personalities) and provide them with a fact sheet of information, including information on the recent Bond issue and how THAT money will go towards roads.

    If you see me driving around with my homemade "VOTE YES MARCH 4" sign in the back of my car, honk and wave!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    It's the billions! As I've said, I'm pretty sure the NBA payroll will be bigger than Dell's, and I think I'd probably enjoy a team a lot more than I've enjoyed Dell. Not saying it's not great to have new businesses here, but I suspect the owner of Dell is as wealthy as any of the Sonics' owners, and I didn't hear anyone griping about giving him a handout. He doesn't even live here and pay taxes, like the Sonics' owners do.

    Dell pays ordinary citizens that have families to support. The NBA pays the salaries of multi-millionaires that throw a round ball through a basket.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jsenter View Post
    Dell pays ordinary citizens that have families to support. The NBA pays the salaries of multi-millionaires that throw a round ball through a basket.
    Last time I checked NBA teams have other employees than just the players.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FritterGirl View Post
    We need to get everyone to call those radio stations and "correct" the dingdongs (including some of our local personalities) and provide them with a fact sheet of information, including information on the recent Bond issue and how THAT money will go towards roads.

    If you see me driving around with my homemade "VOTE YES MARCH 4" sign in the back of my car, honk and wave!
    I still think the most annoying callers are those who insist we're getting an NBA team even if we don't pass this tax proposal. They accuse the mayor of "lying" about the tax not being a tax increase, which is semantics rather than a lie, since it's technically true. The whole "we're getting a team anyway" is a complete fabrication, since there's yet to be a single person at any level in the city or NBA organization that has confirmed that statement, and plenty who are saying the opposite. They're usng a lie to lull the gullible who want something for nothing into voting "no". If someone is insisting on honesty in government, they'd better be doing the same.

    Also, there are some nice bumper stickers at the Chamber for people who don't want to make a sign. They have yard signs and bumper stickers available for free at 123 Park, and I've been stopping by a lot this week to pick up yard signs and have never once had trouble finding parking.

    Some friends of mine have suggested I rent one of the light up signs for the top of your car...haha....I'm thinking about it. So, if you see a mini with a ridiculously silly "Vote Yes March 4th" sign this week, that would be me.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jsenter View Post
    Dell pays ordinary citizens that have families to support. The NBA pays the salaries of multi-millionaires that throw a round ball through a basket.
    And the NBA players keep their money in a bank and never spend it, right?

    Where do you think the places that pay lower income workers get the money to pay those workers?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    The NBA pays the salaries of multi-millionaires that throw a round ball through a basket.
    Which, in the abstract, does seem ridiculous, until you consider that 1,475,985 tickets were sold to see those multi-millionaires throw a round ball through a basket in just the two years that the Hornets were in Oklahoma City.

    I think one point that Bill Bleakley made in the Gazette that deserves some consideration, is that the sales tax exemption for the NBA tickets should be reversed. If we did this, the money from this sales tax extension would be recovered in a few short years by the "users" themselves. Add in the tangential sales tax revenue generated by games and we would see a net gain in a few short years. And this doesn't consider all of the other major events that we would get and retain due to the improvements elevating the competitive stature of the arena. If we don't do this, we may not only not get an NBA team, but we will most assuredly begin losing some events to regional competitors. When Tulsa's arena opens, you pretty much have to consider every event that goes there and does not come here would be a direct result of us not doing these improvements. If we do this, then just about every event in Tulsa that does not come here will be because the Ford Center was occupied. I don't know about the naysayers, but I like the latter option better: more money, more events.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    I think one point that Bill Bleakley made in the Gazette that deserves some consideration, is that the sales tax exemption for the NBA tickets should be reversed. If we did this, the money from this sales tax extension would be recovered in a few short years by the "users" themselves. Add in the tangential sales tax revenue generated by games and we would see a net gain in a few short years. And this doesn't consider all of the other major events that we would get and retain due to the improvements elevating the competitive stature of the arena. If we don't do this, we may not only not get an NBA team, but we will most assuredly begin losing some events to regional competitors. When Tulsa's arena opens, you pretty much have to consider every event that goes there and does not come here would be a direct result of us not doing these improvements. If we do this, then just about every event in Tulsa that does not come here will be because the Ford Center was occupied. I don't know about the naysayers, but I like the latter option better: more money, more events.
    I agree completely. I'm still fine with a small ticket tax as well, as long as it doesn't keep the $10 seats from becoming unaffordable for lower income folks, but the sales tax on tickets is a perfect way to tax those who are attending events at the Ford Center, with a benefit for all. I would be strongly opposed to a sales tax exemption for NBA tickets.

  19. Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jsenter View Post
    Dell pays ordinary citizens that have families to support. The NBA pays the salaries of multi-millionaires that throw a round ball through a basket.
    Who then use that money to pay drivers, housekeepers, dry cleaners, cooks, realtors, tailors, clothiers, waiters, salespeople, landscapers, gardeners, mowers, construction workers, etc. and to give back in philanthropic ways.

    You know, kinda like... Aubrey McClendon and Clay Bennett.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    Well, it's probably true that the Dell employees mostly don't pay drivers, housekeepers and landscapers.

  21. Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    You seem to have missed the point. Yes, the players will have a lot of money--that they will be spending.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    No, I didn't miss the point. I understand trickle-down economics.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Recent Bond Issue Passage Will Take Care of Roads!!

    I'm so sick of this arguement. Over $1 billion has been passed in the last five months alone in OKC for schools, bridges and streets. We live in a big city and we cannot focus on one issue at a time. Several issues come up at once.

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