Has anyone noticed how...

[Blangdon]

The Seattle chatboards are ripping into Oklahoma. Is it our fault that no one goes to the Sonics games? Is it our fault that we want a NBA team and that the Sonics just happened to have an owner sell them to an OKC ownership? I mean really, start pointing the finger inward Seattle...address your own problems before you come after us.

Sonics Insider - Thoughts on arena situation

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Whoah...I live in the "Midwest"?

[betts]

The Seattle chatboards are ripping into Oklahoma. Is it our fault that no one goes to the Sonics games? Is it our fault that we want a NBA team and that the Sonics just happened to have an owner sell them to an OKC ownership? I mean really, start pointing the finger inward Seattle...address your own problems before you come after us.

Sonics Insider - Thoughts on arena situation

I think you have to consider the source. Sports forums are largely populated by the young and the obsessed. Since I like them and participate, I feel like I can be honest. Seattle actually has had fine attendance during their 40 year stay in Seattle, and to be fair, think of how hotheaded some people got about the Hornets. Imagine if you'd grown up with the team in town. I don't hold the things they say against them, as the ones who are talking trash ruin their own credibility with their ridiculousness. We should avoid dropping down to their level, and no one has ever changed anyone's mind by responding to that kind of thing. It's best just to leave them alone. People mourn in different ways, and those who are big Sonics fans must be scared to death their going to leave.

[HOT ROD]

Yeah, but that's no reason for people to degrade another place with inuendo and stereotypes and downright hatred.

You all probably see me chime in on those forums (since I live in Seattle but am from OKC), and I always try to speak the truth. Like when someone from up here said OKC was all white, so therefore there's less crime or something; in informed them at OKC is actually more diverse than Seattle (who is over 86% white) in that OKC has more than 3 times the black population and more than double the hispanics than Seattle (giving OKC less than 70% white).

Seattle is one of the whitest cities, yet we try to pretend we are diverse since we are a pacific rim city. There are asians here but NOTHING like in Vancouver and San Fran and LA. Those are diverse places, heck - even Portland is more diverse than Seattle is.

And those FACTS are often hard for those little Seattleites (who probably dont even live in the city actually) to hear. That is, that some place named OKC with a smaller metro population than Seattle has, 1) has a similar city population 2) a more diverse makeup, including gays 3) is more sports supportive instead of being 'fair weathered' like Seattle 4) has WAY MORE people in its region vs. big bad Seattle basically in the middle of nowhere 5) that this same place has economic viability that is going to be like a BIG SLAP in the face when the Sonics/Storm do move to OKC.

Those things are hard for some here to take, but not most. Those who comment so ridiculously are young and die hard Seattle fans, and most just want to pin their frustrations. Sure, it would be more difficult to pick on Chicago, NY, or LA if the Sonics were moving there - but Im sure they'd have something negative to say about just about anywhere else, and the OKC portrayed in the 'Grapes of Wrath' just gives everyone fuel.

I think that book/movie is the worst slap in the face for OKC, just think of ALL of the stereotypes and rhetoric about OK, most came from that book/story along with the religious and conservative zelics that also seem to have been the vocal minority in the past.

Good thing times are changing, but it takes information (like I provide) to change people's minds. And it also takes OKC to act like a big city. So far, so good but there is much more to do!

Stereotypes are hard to break so that fuels much of what you see from these people. Only Facts and pointing out THEIR faults will change this.

[traxx]

conservative zelics...

Or zealots

[HOT ROD]

^ lol, them too! Thanks.

[BDP]

Yeah, but that's no reason for people to degrade another place with inuendo and stereotypes and downright hatred.

Totally agree. It's stupid. I think the most disgusting things I have read on a sports message board were what some Oklahoma Citians were posting about New Orleans and the Hornets. Completely embarrassing. I sincerely hope that these people are a minority in Oklahoma City or that they at least don't have the guts to voice that crap outside of the internet and shame us all.

I think things have been better, but certainly not always respectful, during the Sonics discussions.

[betts]

I think it's better for someone like Hot Rod, who has lived in both Seattle and Oklahoma City, to go to bat for us. First of all, he has a basis for comparison and the fact that he can see both sides makes his statements more rational, more believable and less emotional.

[HOT ROD]

thanks betts.

I share your opinion.

While Seattle is a great place, I think OKC is also. For the most part, there is a vocal minority in the Seattle area (probably a non-vocal majority as well) who don't really have a positive opinion about Oklahoma or OKC, mainly because of the 'Grapes of Wrath' and the fact that we don't usually hear much about OKC until now.

I remember when I lived in OKC tho, that Seattle was considered an outpost and nobody east of the Rockies knew anything about it (other than it was there. .. somewhere).

Today, there are LOTS of people up here who have a chip on their shoulder about Seattle, since it is home to desireable 'upscale' corporations (Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, Nordstrom, COSTCO, Real Networks, Alaska Airlines, US Hq of Nintendo, Washingon Mutual; birthplace and significant ops of Boeing) particularly Microsoft and the so-called 'dot com' companies. This has given an otherwise unknown Seattle area an identity of a high tech popular and desireable city, particularly among young creative class due to a relaxed society and a pretty favourable business climate. Seattle is also a pacific rim city and is very closely aligned to Canada - Vancouver in particular and much less Japan and (even much less) China.

We can liken this to how Dallas has such a strong pull in the OKC region. Dallas has so many hq and well known businesses that it even competes with the Big 5 cities of the nation (NY, Chicago, LA, DC, SF) even tho it is pretty far from them population wise.

While Seattle is not quite at that level, there is a vocal minority here who think we are and have blinders on when it comes to almost anything outside of the Cascadia region. I think this may come to our 'lack' of national/world news here - unlike in OK (and most everywhere else I've lived) where you have national news stories during local news and newspapers, here in Seattle it is almost always ALL local - including the weather (unless there's some disaster). It appears the media is just self absorbed and would rather have a story on a Sea Lion named Hershel (who was a local resident responsible for eating lots of salmon at a local lock) during a "slow news day" instead of what's happening elsewhere. We hardly hear anything about anywhere else, unless it's derogatory in nature [EXCEPT Vancouver (always LOTS of stories about our big neighbour to the north and our local media routinely goes up there to get news stories, weird)].

So I think this has given Seattle area residents a misconception that Seattle is such an important area and the rest of the US outside of the big 5 doesn't really matter. Case in point, there are MANY here who think Atlanta is smaller than Seattle (whereas ATL is almost twice as large, far more diverse, and has an economy that is almost three times that of Seattle).

The other thing that causes many up here to have a chip is the fact that we have some of the richest 'new money' people in the world living here. That and the fact that we are not conservative here (meaning the rich dont go and hide somewhere or so 'exclusive') even common people 'participate' in the wealth of the region (or it appears so), especially when considering the heavily artificially inflated real estate market we have here [1/3 of your housing cost is artificial].

I know this is somewhat of a lot to take but I wanted to give you a perspective of why people here act this way.

I think OKC has lots of potential, I always have thought of OKC this way, and until 15 years ago it seemed nobody there cared to step up to the plate. Since then, OKC has made it into the Tier II level in many ways and surely will continue to rise.

I mostly try to disspell myths and inuendo (ie lies) about OKC or Seattle on both locations. Mostly geared toward population, diversity, lifestyles, and pasttimes. I dont have to deal with economy mostly because everyone here knows OKC is energy laden. I most have to put Seattle in its place with regard to regional differences - some people here seem to think Seattle's region is SO populated when it isn't compared to Oklahoma's (I counted 16M people up here in WA, OR, ID, MT, AK, and BC Canada vs. over 45M in Oklahoma's border states) as well as OKC as a significant major city [that has somewhat been 'under the radar' from Seattle's prospective].

My experience has been that when someone counters an opinion offered by some of these radical so-called Seattleites, the reaction is as if you hit them without cause. Im not sure why this is the case other than these people represent the vocal minority here and that most people are pretty kind and somewhat 'open'.

I think sometimes there might be some credible information said and OK could learn from it but mostly I think Seattle can learn from Oklahoma, that Seattle is NOT the center of the universe - a great city, YES but not the ONLY place to be.

[HOT ROD]

I can tell you, that the MAIN PRIMARY reason why people here are upset with regard to the Sonics situation is the way Clay and the NBA handled it. He came in and promised to try to work out an arena here yet most do not see it that way. I think they were expecting him to 'basically' move here and work day in and out trying to keep the team here. The vocal minority sees him as a two-faced 'carpetbagger' of sorts, who said one thing but was always intent on moving the team anyways - so why didn't he JUST do that???

I can agree in some respects, since I think it was STUPID to agree to such a long term to try to work things out especially given the apathy toward the Sonics that the majority of people here have. Most people really dont care about the Sonics BUT it is split on the number who want to see them go. Many like being a big 3 major sport city (from status alone) but that does not make the region desparate to remain so. They seem to think that the NBA will return in some fashion when the Sonics go to OKC (I somewhat agree).

Then there are the diehards (mostly not from here tho) who want the status of a major league big 3 city and so they are up in arms along with the diehard sonics fans (which we could probably understand the diehard fans to a degree).

I honestly dont know why Bennett had to do the year thing and get all of these people's hopes up that the Sonics were staying. He has come across as sort of a rich baby who is used to getting his way rather than someone who really "cared" about Seattle.

I remind them time and time again, that Bennett is from OKC, did not move to Seattle, did not even locate an office in Seattle, and that the Sonics are based out of OKC; so it was stupid for Seattle to ever think the Sonics would stay here UNLESS the owner could make money by doing so.

I have to wonder tho, if Bennett were from say - Saint Louis and desired for STL to get an NBA team, would he just move the team there after purchase or go through these hoops that Bennett has been doing???

In reality, OKC looks pretty bad since Bennett didn't just outright move the team (since that is usually what is expected once an outsider buys a team). I for the life of me, can not understand why OKC has to 'play fiddle' and act so second class at times when it comes to OFFENDING a city when in reality these things are competitive - survival goes to the fittest!!

This was true with the Hornets and this has been true with the Sonics; for some reasons, OKC has had to play second fiddle - secondary - to more established places. I remember when Indy made its rise into major leagues (Colts and Pacers) there was no "waiting or trial period", it just happened.

I can not wait for the day, that OKC is seen in this light - that OKC doesn't have to placate another place in order to 'justify' a relocation. Other than that, I am confident OKC will continue to grow and become more popular once the Sonics do in fact relocate there.

13 weeks to go!!!

[dalelakin]

I remember when Indy made its rise into major leagues (Colts and Pacers) there was no "waiting or trial period", it just happened.

Pacers have been in Indy since the inception of the ABA and then to the NBA in 76. They have made it to the finals once in that time in 99-00 season.

We stole the Colts in 84. They FINALLY win the Super Bowl the year I move to Oklahoma 06-07 season.

If that isn't "waiting or trial period" for an Indy sports fan I am not sure I want to see one.

I can remember when the Colts came to Indy. It was a different time and there were no internet forums. The local news crews swapped stories and it was some pretty vicious words flying on both sides.

[betts]

There's a lot of irrationality on the Seattle Times forum and a couple of really, nutty posters right now. I suspect I know their secret identities and it's best to ignore them as anything you say makes them spiral further out of control.

[HOT ROD]

betts, I agree. I checked it today and holy cow!!!!

I wonder why I got banned, I can not post anything there; (and Im from Seattle).

Weird.

[betts]

The wacko who is screwing up the Times forum is one of the owners of the Hornets forum in New Orleans He doesn't live in NO, it's true, but he's either from there or lived there in the past.

[HOT ROD]

He's a weird guy. ...