Panasonic Battery Plant

[Pete]

Its not that complicated. Oklahoma offered $698 million in incentives, Kansas offered or $1 billion.

Money talks...

You have no idea if that was the primary reason.

[G.Walker]

You have no idea if that was the primary reason.

I know I don't, but $300 million is a good start, that is a lot of money.

[Bunty]

CNBC came out with its 2022 rankings for top states for business. Oklahoma ranks 38. Last year it was ranked 32. So, Stitt is slipping and still has a long way to go for top ten. Kansas for 2022 is ranked 21.

[Jake]

We'll get the next huge plant for sure. Just like we did after the Tesla thing.

[Pete]

I know I don't, but $300 million is a good start, that is a lot of money.

If it was that simple, why did we try and recruit them at all?

All I'm saying is this is a good opportunity to find out what it's going to take to be competitive because we clearly aren't now.

[shartel_ave]

You have no idea if that was the primary reason.

He's probably right about the larger incentive package being the reason

https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/...a/10045344002/

[G.Walker]

Seems to me that Kansas had their incentive package in place for sometime and had already presented it to Panasonic. Oklahoma had to play catch up, and came up with our package last minute and it was rushed. And with our package, there still wasn't a clear indication on where that money was gonna come from.

I think if we had more time, we could have been more competitive and offered a better package.

[Pete]

He's probably right about the larger incentive package being the reason

https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/...a/10045344002/

It still begs a bunch of questions that need answers: Why were we so late? Why did we bother if we knew we couldn't match their package? Why did we put together a package that wasn't competitive? What are we going to do differently to have a fighting chance of winning these competitions in the future?

[BG918]

We'll get the next huge plant for sure. Just like we did after the Tesla thing.

Oklahoma is clearly on the radar or it wouldn't be in the running for these developments.

[Pete]

Oklahoma is clearly on the radar or it wouldn't be in the running for these developments.

Do you remember seeing what Elon Musk wrote (which was later leaked) about meeting with Oklahoma reps?

He basically said he was just paying them a courtesy. And of course the subtext was that it was an opportunity to use OK as leverage which is exactly what he did.

For all we know, we were never in serious contention for this facility either.

[Jake]

Looking back, the press conference "non-announcement" from Stitt is even funnier in context. I went from thinking that was the announcement to learning we lost out to De Soto, Kansas in three months.

Life comes at you fast.

[shartel_ave]

Do remember seeing what Elon Musk wrote (which was later leaked) about meeting with Oklahoma reps?

He basically said he was just paying them a courtesy. And of course the subtext was that it was an opportunity to use OK as leverage which is exactly what he did.

For all we know, we were never in serious contention for this facility either.

that is a very real possibility

that may be the reason kansas offered more than twice the dollar amount in incentives

1.2 billion is 502 million more than Oklahoma offered

[TheTravellers]

Sigh, and of course it is presumed to be going really close to KC.

This thread is toting the political line, but the answer to all of this is younger people not voting. It is honestly mind blowing how many people in Oklahoma do not vote, especially young people. But this is exactly why the system exists in its current form.

OK has had a super-low voter turnout for years, and for the primaries that just happened, we had a whole ~25% of the registered voters in the state vote - completely pathetic statistic.

[TheTravellers]

CNBC came out with its 2022 rankings for top states for business. Oklahoma ranks 38. Last year it was ranked 32. So, Stitt is slipping and still has a long way to go for top ten. Kansas for 2022 is ranked 21.

Another couple of slots and we'll be in the top 10 states worst for business. Did Stitt ever say verbatim he wanted to be in the top 10 *best* lists or just top 10.....?

[king183]

That NonDoc article is low key depressing funny. The quotes are all from people who sound like they've been told by their parents if you're a good boy, I'll get you ice cream next month. They're being told what they want to hear and repeating it to us. Let's be blunt: our government got embarrassed in this situation and they're in the beginning stages of grief: denial.

[TU 'cane]

Hooooo baby, this has been something sitting back and reading everyone's comments this afternoon. Everyone's in meltdown mode and wants to leave Oklahoma now. Whether on this site or elsewhere from the general responses I'm seeing. And you know what? Maybe some of you should because you sound absolutely miserable being here and if it'll make you happier, I say more power to you and best of luck.

-Kansas offered $1.2 billion to OK's < $1 billion (someone posted above OK's proposal was only $502 million).
a) At what point do we delineate what are corporate handouts and b) what amount do we say is "enough?" c) why are some corporate handouts acceptable but others aren't? Do some of you wish OK would have gifted Panasonic over $1 billion from the taxpayers? Do you have a proposal for where that money would have come from? If so, please run for office and get off the Internet forums.

-Kansas City, which will be the closest metropolitan area from my understanding and has over 2.5 million people within its CSA (I use CSA because Pryor isn't within metro Tulsa and I'm assuming this plant won't quite be in metro K.C. But please correct me if I'm wrong). Tulsa has 1.1 million.
a) At what point do we simply acknowledge that bigger cities generally win out in these competitions because more people = a larger potential pool? b) At what point do we realize there are thousands of other cities and towns that lost out here besides Tulsa and OK? c) At what point do we realize it was interesting that OK was even considered (even if as a pawn) and look at that as a win for the future?

-The people railing against the rural counties and people are literally proving the point that many of the rural people supposedly hold (according to many of the comments posted these last few pages themselves).
a) Rural people are people too. They are our families, friends, etc. If you look at them and treat them like monsters, expect the same back. b) Quit blaming them and using them as your convenient scapegoat. c) To the people making arguments about how our government is structured, it's operating exactly as intended. Just because one city or area has more people than another, doesn't mean that one gets to dominate the other.

-There was a comment(s) suggesting KS had a 6 month head start. Is this true? If so, that turns the conversation considerably and needs to be taken with a little more seriousness.
a) There is a good question that others are asking "why wasn't OK part of the conversation during that time?" or something similar. Unless someone knows what happened behind closed doors, everything is just speculation. It's an entirely possible scenario Panasonic wanted this site the entire time and didn't let anyone else know until something leaked (on accident or otherwise). Meaning, OK and other states may not have had any idea whatsoever this was a thing. Who are we to blame then?


So now let me join in the fray here and say I'm disappointed. Everyone is. You think Stitt isn't? You think the chamber of commerce isn't? Do you think they aren't reflecting on what else could have been done? I bet they are, no one wants to assume that though because of certain lenses they put over their eyes.
But only time will tell if this was for the best or not. You never know. Keep in mind that with things like this comes other consequences (some that a few of you on here may like or not be bothered by, but that doesn't speak for everyone): increased traffic, increased property values, increased housing demand (single family will be the most sought after, which I thought was a no-no for an urban development forum), etc.

Take a breath, walk away from the computer screen and contact your legislator and let them know that you'd like to talk about the Panasonic deal in person or in more detail with them. I'm guessing 99% of you haven't done that or won't as it requires less effort to find scapegoats and put on our political sunglasses.

[Pete]

So now let me join in the fray here and say I'm disappointed. Everyone is. You think Stitt isn't? You think the chamber of commerce isn't? Do you think they aren't reflecting on what else could have been done? I bet they are, no one wants to assume that though because of certain lenses they put over their eyes.

I doubt anyone here thinks Stitt isn't disappointed, but that is hardly the point.

What can we learn from this? What changes do we need to make? How do we move forward?

When something doesn't go right, you can't possibly expect the people directly involved to provide an objective evaluation. And that has nothing to do with "political sunglasses".

[Celebrator]

^100%

[TU 'cane]

I doubt anyone here thinks Stitt isn't disappointed, but that is hardly the point.

What can we learn from this? What changes do we need to make? How do we move forward?

When something doesn't go right, you can't possibly expect the people directly involved to provide an objective evaluation. And that has nothing to do with "political sunglasses".

^100%

I don't think anyone here is naive enough to believe our personal politics don't get in the way, at least a little:

I doubt anyone here thinks Stitt isn't disappointed, but that is hardly the point.

What can we learn from this? What changes do we need to make? How do we move forward?

When something doesn't go right, you can't possibly expect the people directly involved to provide an objective evaluation. And that has nothing to do with "political sunglasses".

This is a very good time to study the reasons why we keep getting passed over.

Everyone has opinions, but it would be nice to talk directly to the decision-makers at Panasonic and find out why they preferred Kansas. This should not be led by the governor or his cronies. I'd like to see a bi-partisan group established so we can find out the real truth, whatever it may be.


We were never going to get Tesla, but this is different and we need to learn from it.

Not going to happen, they will all be reelected and nothing will change. Too many stupid people in this state, it makes the educated ones question whether they should move somewhere else.

I love OKC and the state of Oklahoma along with the people that live here and very happy that I moved here but I do not like the state government but I could say that about the federal government and most other state governments.

I'm no fan of democrats or republicans both sides are funded by massive corporate money.

More attention needs to be focused on overturning citizens united.

You guys are forgetting that, aside from the OKC and Tulsa areas, the rest of the state wants OK to suck. And our legislators have rigged it to where the part of the state with 10% of the population have 50% or more of the power at the state level.

So yeah. There is nothing we can do. People in Guymon don't care if the state grows, same with people in Atoka. Yet they have an unjust amount of representation, based on population.

You won't hear a damn thing from state legislators, considering some of them wanted them to pick Kansas because they were pro-choice. Quit thinking this will spark change.

Top 10 state, eh? Yet another failure to deliver from the Governor's office. Yet I'm sure people will just eat up the rhetoric despite zero evidence of success at recruiting businesses (or anything else).

Sigh, and of course it is presumed to be going really close to KC.

This thread is toting the political line, but the answer to all of this is younger people not voting. It is honestly mind blowing how many people in Oklahoma do not vote, especially young people. But this is exactly why the system exists in its current form.

I decided to stop before going another page because my point is beyond proven.
You (Pete) made a great post (#144, I think) that is mostly encouraging and the mindset all of us need to have: WTF happened and what can we do to avoid or put ourselves in a better position for the next one? Dang, we missed these last two, but let's go for a third and try smarter, harder, etc. all around.
Some of you will no doubt come back to the political aspect as the comments above prove unequivocally. And while there is an element there that can't be ignored, we need to remember one important thing: these companies couldn't care less about politics as a whole. They'll grandstand a little here and there but remember that most of them will gladly put certain profile pics and colors on their social media accounts during certain days or months in some countries while not for others.
They play games and don't really care too much about Bible thumping rednecks as the comments above are laced with when reading between the lines. They care about bottom lines and handouts. KS is probably cheaper because there's less there than here and KS also doubled our offer.

What if it's as simple as that? If it is, then my questions in my original post need answering: what are the definitions and where do we draw the line for corporate handouts? Make no mistake, that's what won this at the end of the day and if I had to guess, Panasonic set themselves up to "win" long term while the politicians in KS are holding up victory signs.
I want good jobs here in OK as well. There probably isn't one person on this forum that doesn't.

[Jersey Boss]

We'll get the next huge plant for sure. Just like we did after the Tesla thing.

You can't be serious comparing a product manufacturing company to a company that isn't manufacturing anything yet.

[Pete]

You can't be serious comparing a product manufacturing company to a company that isn't manufacturing anything yet.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

[Jake]

Major corporations and organizations that deal with them absolutely look at politics and the optics/ramifications that stem from them. To pretend otherwise is foolishness.

[Jersey Boss]

OK has had a super-low voter turnout for years, and for the primaries that just happened, we had a whole ~25% of the registered voters in the state vote - completely pathetic statistic.

Districts have been gerrymandered to the point that the legislators pick their voters instead of voters picking the legislators. Why vote when the outcome is preordained? Not every district is like that but more than one will have only one candidate in November.

[chssooner]

Major corporations and organizations that deal with them absolutely look at politics and the optics/ramifications that stem from them. To pretend otherwise is foolishness.

If it was all about politics, Texas would get less than us. Money matters a LOT! Like, a crap-ton. To pretend otherwise is foolishness.

[PaddyShack]

I think we won out here, I am glad our tax dollars are not wrapped up in one company... I would rather see OK spend those package dollars on education reform, criminal justice reform, mental health reform, etc. If we diverted all of those "bring business to OK" (for lack of a better term) dollars towards our own infrastructure, then I guarantee we would see an influx of businesses.

I say the same thing for the national level. If we were divert just half of the US defense budget to infrastructure and education, then we easily might solve a lot of the issues we have, which in turn positions us better in the world where we might not have to spend those defense dollars!