University of Oklahoma Sports

[okatty]

If Lebby wasn’t a Cale fan….it mattered. PERIOD

[Brett]

OU administration is very good about sweeping attention grabbing incidents under the rug. My gut feeling tells me the statement that was released from Coach Venables was crafted by OU attorneys.

[Laramie]

OU administration is very good about sweeping attention grabbing incidents under the rug. My gut feeling tells me the statement that was released from Coach Venables was crafted by OU attorneys.

As painful as this is for us Sooner Nation faithful, you better make sure your head coach has coordinated any of his remarks with the university's attorneys before anything is released. This will now be a matter of how well Coach Brent Venables deal with this as the media will be on him like fruit flies on a banana.

What was Cale Gundy thinking--he should have taken the distraction paper from the player, waited then talked to him about it in private. Why in the hell did he begin reading aloud something he himself didn't preview, doesn't make sense. He should have stop reading once he noticed a 'trigger word' out of content . . .

[Bill Robertson]

It's more important to be in Venables camp than Lebby's. Both important but one is more than the other. If one of my supervisors has a problem with an employee but my observation is that the employee is doing their job just fine and it's a personality issue or the like than that employee is not going anywhere. If however I develop a problem with them they will be looking for another job. It's my "kingdom".

[BoulderSooner]

It's more important to be in Venables camp than Lebby's. Both important but one is more than the other. If one of my supervisors has a problem with an employee but my observation is that the employee is doing their job just fine and it's a personality issue or the like than that employee is not going anywhere. If however I develop a problem with them they will be looking for another job. It's my "kingdom".

yep

[soonerguru]

It's unfortunate that Cale felt the need to misrepresent what actually happened. I get why he did it, but it made the situation worse than it had to be. It forced Coach Venables to have to explain why what Cale did was wrong, and clarify that he used the word multiple times in front of the team.

I love the guy but anyone thinking straight understands why this is unacceptable for a leader to do. Imagine making more than 600k a year and not realizing why this isn't OK.

It was disturbing to see so many people jump on the "it was the woke admin" fairy tale, when this was clearly Brent's first tough decision to make.

He has preached over and over about living and playing to the Standard. He would have been a massive hypocrite to let this slide.

I had a former superstar player reach out to me privately last night and he said there were a lot more players disturbed about it than some outlets suggest. I've seen reports that "all but two" were in favor of keeping Gundy.

But that's not a decision you put in the players' hands. The leader of the program, Brent, has established what he wants from his staff, and how he wants to rep the University, and what Gundy did doesn't fit that model.

Gundy's a good dude, and not a racist at all, but he exercised very poor judgment. And, if OU would have kept him around, it would have undermined what Brent is trying to build and would have cast a huge pall over the program. Rival recruiters would scorch OU for this with recruits and their families.

This was unsurvivable by Gundy, but, he resigned, Brent showed he stands up for the program's principles, and OU will be just fine in the end. Gundy will be fine, too.

[BoulderSooner]

It's unfortunate that Cale felt the need to misrepresent what actually happened. I get why he did it, but it made the situation worse than it had to be. It forced Coach Venables to have to explain why what Cale did was wrong, and clarify that he used the word multiple times in front of the team.

I love the guy but anyone thinking straight understands why this is unacceptable for a leader to do. Imagine making more than 600k a year and not realizing why this isn't OK.

It was disturbing to see so many people jump on the "it was the woke admin" fairy tale, when this was clearly Brent's first tough decision to make.

He has preached over and over about living and playing to the Standard. He would have been a massive hypocrite to let this slide.

I had a former superstar player reach out to me privately last night and he said there were a lot more players disturbed about it than some outlets suggest. I've seen reports that "all but two" were in favor of keeping Gundy.

But that's not a decision you put in the players' hands. The leader of the program, Brent, has established what he wants from his staff, and how he wants to rep the University, and what Gundy did doesn't fit that model.

Gundy's a good dude, and not a racist at all, but he exercised very poor judgment. And, if OU would have kept him around, it would have undermined what Brent is trying to build and would have cast a huge pall over the program. Rival recruiters would scorch OU for this with recruits and their families.

This was unsurvivable by Gundy, but, he resigned, Brent showed he stands up for the program's principles, and OU will be just fine in the end. Gundy will be fine, too.

he didn't misrepresent anything



he read what was on the tablet (more then one sentence contained the word in question ) this was reported by those in the know on sunday night .. (that he said the word aloud more then once)

[mugofbeer]

IMO for what it's worth:

l see (per news media) a dedicated former OU player and multi-decade coach, who READ WORDS ALOUD A PLAYER HAD JUST THAT MOMENT WRITTEN while goofing off in a meeting, utter the forbidden word and destroy his career. Even if Gundy said it several times, he was attempting to teach, coach and character-build this player to pay attention during coaching sessions. He wasn't being racist, malicious or destructive but being INstructive and teaching a matter of respect, maturity and attention. God help Brent Venables when he accidently blurts out the forbidden word in one of his tirades.

Gundy has just had his potential life dream destroyed in a 1 minute error and unless there is more to this story, l think his being forced out is disgusting. Are we living in a free-society or a totalitarian country where only a white person can have his life destroyed because he dared mention IN TEACHING the forbidden word that African-Americans call around at each other like an everyday name? OU is a frigging school. It's a teaching institution. He was teaching. He was doing his job. His job as a football coach at a D1 school is far more than running routes. It's turning kids into men. It's instilling character. It's teaching dedication but despite 20+ years of dedication, the school dumped him like yesterday's garbage.

The poster above says a player told him more people are upset about this than is being let on.....OK, where is your proof?
I guess the apparent first-hand support of both his current players as well as former players doesn't mean anything. I guess the school's ability to take a step back and take a deep breath is gone. I guess there is no such thing as suspension with consideration of the circumstances. Nope, when it comes to the God forbidden word innocently uttered by an evil white male in 2022, it's call out Kim Jong-un's career and reputational firing squad and blow Gundy's guts across the campus.

For what it's worth, l will watch what emerges from this but unless new justifications come out that change the narrative, my money will go to finish my son's education and then it stops, and l will make it clear l will not donate to a school that has adopted such 1984 Orwellian-fascist policies.

If this kind of disrespect for a human is what Brent Venables and OU is trying to build, they need to do some serious reexamination of their priorities. Gungy is human. Punish him but this did not warrant destruction.

[BoulderSooner]

IMO for what it's worth:

l see (per news media) a dedicated former OU player and multi-decade coach, who READ WORDS ALOUD A PLAYER HAD JUST THAT MOMENT WRITTEN while goofing off in a meeting, utter the forbidden word and destroy his career. Even if Gundy said it several times, he was attempting to teach, coach and character-build this player to pay attention during coaching sessions. He wasn't being racist, malicious or destructive but being INstructive and teaching a matter of respect, maturity and attention.

Gundy has just had his potential life dream destroyed in a 1 minute error and unless there is more to this story, l think his being forced out is disgusting. Are we living in a free-society or a totalitarian country where only a white person can have his life destroyed because he dared mention IN TEACHING the forbidden word that African-Americans call around at each other like an everyday name? OU is a frigging school. It's a teaching institution. He was teaching. He was doing his job. His job as a football coach at a D1 school is far more than running routes. It's turning kids into men. It's instilling character. It's teaching dedication but despite 20+ years of dedication, the school dumped him like yesterday's garbage.

I guess the apparent support of both his current players as well as former players doesn't mean anything. I guess the school's ability to take a step back and take a deep breath is gone. I guess there is no such thing as suspension with consideration of the circumstances. Nope, when it comes to the God forbidden word innocently uttered by an evil white male in 2022, it's call out Kim Jong-un's career and reputational firing squad and blow Gundy's guts across the campus.

For what it's worth, l will watch what emerges from this but unless new justifications come out that change the narrative, my money will go to finish my son's education and then it stops, and l will make it clear l will not donate to a school that has adopted such 1984 Orwellian-fascist policies.

while i agree with much of what you say here .. the reality is that he has to coach and recruit 15-22 year old's that are often african american. his ability to do so (especially the recruiting part) was massively impacted. as well as having a negative effect on recruiting for the entire program .. saying that word as a 50 year old white male is not ok and that is not a new thing ....

this is from Rufus Alexander and it is well said

https://twitter.com/CoachRufus42/sta...298691072?s=20

[Rover]

IMO for what it's worth:

l see (per news media) a dedicated former OU player and multi-decade coach, who READ WORDS ALOUD A PLAYER HAD JUST THAT MOMENT WRITTEN while goofing off in a meeting, utter the forbidden word and destroy his career. Even if Gundy said it several times, he was attempting to teach, coach and character-build this player to pay attention during coaching sessions. He wasn't being racist, malicious or destructive but being INstructive and teaching a matter of respect, maturity and attention. God help Brent Venables when he accidently blurts out the forbidden word in one of his tirades.

Gundy has just had his potential life dream destroyed in a 1 minute error and unless there is more to this story, l think his being forced out is disgusting. Are we living in a free-society or a totalitarian country where only a white person can have his life destroyed because he dared mention IN TEACHING the forbidden word that African-Americans call around at each other like an everyday name? OU is a frigging school. It's a teaching institution. He was teaching. He was doing his job. His job as a football coach at a D1 school is far more than running routes. It's turning kids into men. It's instilling character. It's teaching dedication but despite 20+ years of dedication, the school dumped him like yesterday's garbage.

The poster above says a player told him more people are upset about this than is being let on.....OK, where is your proof?
I guess the apparent first-hand support of both his current players as well as former players doesn't mean anything. I guess the school's ability to take a step back and take a deep breath is gone. I guess there is no such thing as suspension with consideration of the circumstances. Nope, when it comes to the God forbidden word innocently uttered by an evil white male in 2022, it's call out Kim Jong-un's career and reputational firing squad and blow Gundy's guts across the campus.

For what it's worth, l will watch what emerges from this but unless new justifications come out that change the narrative, my money will go to finish my son's education and then it stops, and l will make it clear l will not donate to a school that has adopted such 1984 Orwellian-fascist policies.

If this kind of disrespect for a human is what Brent Venables and OU is trying to build, they need to do some serious reexamination of their priorities. Gungy is human. Punish him but this did not warrant destruction.

Quite a spin.

[mugofbeer]

Sorry, l look at this from a human standpoint.

Rufus' Tweet was well-said but it is one opinion.

I will make a correction to my previous post. The player may not have written the words himself but may have been reading something that was sent to him instead.....

To my point:

Gundy was not saying the N word maliciously. He was reading text.

Gundy is a football coach. A teacher. He was attempting to teach a distracted pupil to pay attention, to learn, to be a teammate and to have respect.

This is a word bandied around by AAs at each other constantly. If the word is not to be used in an absolute manner then apply it to everyone. Forbid it to all parties concerned.

There was an enormous number of alternatives that could have been used here instead of career destruction. OU / Venables chose to be punative, chose to be destructive, chose to be divisive, chose to be unforgiving, chose to cast aside any notion of dedication or compassion and just said, "f-you, Cale."

This is undeniable one-sided fascism given what l have seen out to this point.

[mugofbeer]

Quite a spin.

Prove me wrong.

[Pete]

There was an enormous number of alternatives that could have been used here instead of career destruction. OU / Venables chose to be punative, chose to be destructive, chose to be divisive, chose to be unforgiving, chose to cast aside any notion of dedication or compassion and just said, "f-you, Cale."

This is undeniable one-sided fascism given what l have seen out to this point.

Or, the people involved simply know more about what happened than you and I ever will, despite the endless speculation.

Nobody would want to callously chase off a valuable and respected member of the staff, a person the current regime made a point to rehire with a huge salary. But as a leader, the actions of others often leave you with no choice.


BTW, if you or I read that word multiple times in front of any group -- let alone one that is mainly African American -- we wouldn't get the courtesy of being allowed to resign. There would be an immediate firing and swift movement towards distancing the business entity from that entire situation.

I know because I've managed people who have done something similar. HR and our attorneys made it very clear: They need to be gone today.

It sucked and my personal feelings or their prior performance had nothing to do with it. There are certain mistakes that are fatal, and you'd have to be a complete fool to not know this particular one is at the very top of that list.

[Dob Hooligan]

Cale Gundy was paid $600,000 per year. $50,000 per month. A king's ransom by most standards. In our wonderful and free country, it is his right to say that word. It is also the university's right to demand he not say that word on campus if he wants to be paid.

[BDP]

For what it's worth, l will watch what emerges from this but unless new justifications come out that change the narrative, my money will go to finish my son's education and then it stops, and l will make it clear l will not donate to a school that has adopted such 1984 Orwellian-fascist policies.

For what it's worth, much of 1984 is about language. Specifically, how language is used to control and oppress people. I'm sure we all know the history of the word we're discussing and how it was used in context of control and oppression. 1984 basically warns of people in power using such language.

People, especially politicians, often twist and misuse the term "Orwellian" to get a rise out of people, which is very, well... Orwellian.

[soonerguru]

he didn't misrepresent anything



he read what was on the tablet (more then one sentence contained the word in question ) this was reported by those in the know on sunday night .. (that he said the word aloud more then once)

No. I read his statement multiple times. He said he accidentally read the word aloud, and then was "horrified" that he had, implying that he quickly realized his mistake after saying it once while reading the iPad. When in reality, he read the song and repeated the word multiple times. People can buy the, "Whoops, I wasn't thinking and read this by accident. My bad!" explanation. But, it changed once Brent had to step in and point out that he read the word allowed multiple times.

So, yes, he totally misrepresented it, and since he was the first person to make a public statement, he spun the story severely in one direction, which is why Brent was forced to make a much terser clarifying statement on Monday.

Regardless, Brent made the right move to stand up for the Standard he is setting for the program. Cale is a great Sooner but having him around would be a total recruiting and media liability, and, according to a former superstar player, very disappointing to a lot of the players who justifiably don't want to be hearing that word bandied about in team meetings from a coach.

It sucks that he made such a dumb decision, but he is a millionaire and will be fine. If anyone here on this board did what he did we would be ushered out of our jobs by security, with no opportunity for a lovely send-off and without the ability to write a pithy goodbye note.

[barrettd]

And now we've reached the age-old part of every argument about this word, "if black people can say it, why can't white people?"

Anyone who doesn't understand that it's never ok for a white person to say that word is not going to understand why Cale had to resign, and why Brent would have had to fire him if he hadn't.

[Pete]

Yes, as if not being able to use the most reprehensible racial slur known to man is some sort of terrible sacrifice.

[TU 'cane]

We can split hairs all day long (like I'm about to do below) but, ultimately, there was only one way out of this for Gundy and Venables (and thus, OU as a whole) and that method was chosen. Rightfully, I say. Why? Because OU doesn't need a dumb distraction like this. Venables doesn't need it. This is his program and I'm happy he responded the way he did. Venables knows what he's doing and he's setting his OU standard and I love it.

Now, let's split those hairs, shall we?
It's a stupid word, but calling it the most reprehensible known to man is ignoring most of human history and other cultures that have endured racism and the name calling associated with it as well.

I mean, it can't be that reprehensible if it's used in music and entertainment all of the time... and that music and entertainment is filtered onto the radio and television for everyone to hear and sing, including some young white people who enjoy it.

Again, it's a stupid word. I don't go around saying it because I do think it's wrong, but I also think it's stupid and wrong for black people to say it. It's wrong for everyone. It's even more stupid to blast it in the greater culture the way it is and then allow only one group of people to use it. That is... drum roll please... racist in itself.

One last hair to split. Venables said Gundy used the word "multiple" times. That doesn't automatically mean Gundy went off like a machine gun saying it dozens of times. It could literally mean he said it twice, for example. That's not excusing anything, by the way, just providing context, which is often missing in most of today's conversations. Once or twice is a lot different than a dozen times though.

[BoulderSooner]

No. I read his statement multiple times. He said he accidentally read the word aloud, and then was "horrified" that he had, implying that he quickly realized his mistake after saying it once while reading the iPad. When in reality, he read the song and repeated the word multiple times. People can buy the, "Whoops, I wasn't thinking and read this by accident. My bad!" explanation. But, it changed once Brent had to step in and point out that he read the word allowed multiple times.

So, yes, he totally misrepresented it, and since he was the first person to make a public statement, he spun the story severely in one direction, which is why Brent was forced to make a much terser clarifying statement on Monday.

Regardless, Brent made the right move to stand up for the Standard he is setting for the program. Cale is a great Sooner but having him around would be a total recruiting and media liability, and, according to a former superstar player, very disappointing to a lot of the players who justifiably don't want to be hearing that word bandied about in team meetings from a coach.

It sucks that he made such a dumb decision, but he is a millionaire and will be fine. If anyone here on this board did what he did we would be ushered out of our jobs by security, with no opportunity for a lovely send-off and without the ability to write a pithy goodbye note.

those that follow the program knew on sunday night that he read the word more then once (twice ie multiple times)

[BoulderSooner]

bob stoops comments on this yesterday on the REF with teddy lehman are worth reading .. and well stated

[barrettd]

We can split hairs all day long (like I'm about to do below) but, ultimately, there was only one way out of this for Gundy and Venables (and thus, OU as a whole) and that method was chosen. Rightfully, I say. Why? Because OU doesn't need a dumb distraction like this. Venables doesn't need it. This is his program and I'm happy he responded the way he did. Venables knows what he's doing and he's setting his OU standard and I love it.

Now, let's split those hairs, shall we?
It's a stupid word, but calling it the most reprehensible known to man is ignoring most of human history and other cultures that have endured racism and the name calling associated with it as well.

I mean, it can't be that reprehensible if it's used in music and entertainment all of the time... and that music and entertainment is filtered onto the radio and television for everyone to hear and sing, including some young white people who enjoy it.

Again, it's a stupid word. I don't go around saying it because I do think it's wrong, but I also think it's stupid and wrong for black people to say it. It's wrong for everyone. It's even more stupid to blast it in the greater culture the way it is and then allow only one group of people to use it. That is... drum roll please... racist in itself.

One last hair to split. Venables said Gundy used the word "multiple" times. That doesn't automatically mean Gundy went off like a machine gun saying it dozens of times. It could literally mean he said it twice, for example. That's not excusing anything, by the way, just providing context, which is often missing in most of today's conversations. Once or twice is a lot different than a dozen times though.

I don't like the word, either. But if the black community wants to take ownership of it and use it in their community, that's up to them. I'm not going to argue for the right of a white person to use the word without consequences. I don't like the word said by anyone, and there are plenty of people in the black community that loathe its use, as well. The only thing of which I'm certain is it is never OK for a white person to use it.

I'm still not sure why white people are so eager to be able to use the word freely and without consequence.

[BDP]

Now, let's split those hairs, shall we?
It's a stupid word, but calling it the most reprehensible known to man is ignoring most of human history and other cultures that have endured racism and the name calling associated with it as well.

One last hair to split. Venables said Gundy used the word "multiple" times. That doesn't automatically mean Gundy went off like a machine gun saying it dozens of times. It could literally mean he said it twice, for example. That's not excusing anything, by the way, just providing context, which is often missing in most of today's conversations. Once or twice is a lot different than a dozen times though.

Context is always important. Part of that context is who is saying it. In this case, it's probably the most important part.

[Midtowner]

I don't like the word, either. But if the black community wants to take ownership of it and use it in their community, that's up to them. I'm not going to argue for the right of a white person to use the word without consequences. I don't like the word said by anyone, and there are plenty of people in the black community that loathe its use, as well. The only thing of which I'm certain is it is never OK for a white person to use it.

I'm still not sure why white people are so eager to be able to use the word freely and without consequence.

https://youtu.be/S4pSp3Km6Mw

@1:05

[TU 'cane]

bob stoops comments on this yesterday on the REF with teddy lehman are worth reading .. and well stated

I listened to it and it sounded to me like Bob was lamenting the entire situation and felt bad for everyone involved, including Gundy. It was a reasonable take.

I don't like the word, either. But if the black community wants to take ownership of it and use it in their community, that's up to them. I'm not going to argue for the right of a white person to use the word without consequences. I don't like the word said by anyone, and there are plenty of people in the black community that loathe its use, as well. The only thing of which I'm certain is it is never OK for a white person to use it.

I'm still not sure why white people are so eager to be able to use the word freely and without consequence.

I'm sure there are white people out there who really want to use the word, but I'm not one of them so if that statement was directed at me, please go re-read what I posted and tell me where I insinuated that. If it wasn't directed at me, please disregard.
I also don't personally know anyone who is white that "wants" to use the term. The overwhelming majority of white people I know would say the word is stupid and wouldn't seek out "approval" to use it to feel cool or something like that.

And again, going back to one of my main points - in this example of when black entertainers become role models or examples to non-black consumers, what's the first thing people tend to do as a form of idolization? Mimic.

Either quit using the word or quit ruining people for using it non-threatening or hurtful ways (like singing or reading lyrics).