OKC Light Rail System?

[venture]

California High-Speed Rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

98.1 billion final estimated full build cost

California is going to be more expensive to build out than most areas in the Plains and Great Lakes. So you can't automatically take their cost per mile (for example) and say it will equal the same for the line that will run Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago or Chicago-St. Louis. Mostly flat terrain and the ability to have straight lines will be much more feasible than winding in an out of the mountains in California.

[OKVision4U]

Ridership on HSR is equal to attending a NBA game in downtown "The Peake" watching KD dunk on Howard.

20 years ago we would have not "signed up" for that % of success for the Thunder. If we build a HSR Metro System it will be utilized to its fullest. They do in Japan. Why would we be any different?

[Plutonic Panda]

California is going to be more expensive to build out than most areas in the Plains and Great Lakes. So you can't automatically take their cost per mile (for example) and say it will equal the same for the line that will run Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago or Chicago-St. Louis. Mostly flat terrain and the ability to have straight lines will be much more feasible than winding in an out of the mountains in California.

i am such an idiot sometimes, don't even know how I didn't factor that in. We will still have the Arbuckles to deal with or I wonder if it would be cheaper to build around.

[hoya]

a few billion????? Try a few trillion, maybe ,

California High Speed Rail Authority - State of California

A few billion just for us. The whole system, of course, will be significantly more expensive.

[venture]

Ridership on HSR is equal to attending a NBA game in downtown "The Peake" watching KD dunk on Howard.

20 years ago we would have not "signed up" for that % of success for the Thunder. If we build a HSR Metro System it will be utilized to its fullest. They do in Japan. Why would we be any different?

1) We don't have the population density of Japan.

2) We aren't connecting people from over 150 miles away from the city center to come into work in the CBD of OKC - there simply aren't enough people.

I don't see why you would suggest having a HSR for LOCAL commuter rail over traditional rail since the speed benefits won't be there. A line from Norman to Downtown is going to likely have a stop in Moore and another in South OKC on its way in. The biggest break is going to be Norman-Moore which is about a 7 mile segment IIRC from the map I did a few months back.

[venture]

i am such an idiot sometimes, don't even know how I didn't factor that in. We will still have the Arbuckles to deal with or I wonder if it would be cheaper to build around.

You aren't an idiot. :-P Stop that.

I don't think the Arbuckles are going to be a major deal since they aren't exact the Rockies with steep cliffs to contend with.

[hoya]

Ridership on HSR is equal to attending a NBA game in downtown "The Peake" watching KD dunk on Howard.

20 years ago we would have not "signed up" for that % of success for the Thunder. If we build a HSR Metro System it will be utilized to its fullest. They do in Japan. Why would we be any different?

High speed rail is like pouring money into creating a network of filling stations for hydrogen powered vehicles. Maybe they're the wave of the future, and we'll be well ahead of the game. Maybe they're not. If HSR does not catch on, if 20 years from now there's no HSR network connecting Dallas to St Louis and Chicago, then we've spent a massive amount of money on something that is of very limited use.

We should build an economical, functional local rail network. Let people who get off an airplane at Will Rogers take the train downtown. Let people who live in Midwest City take the train to Norman for an OU football game. Let's establish a regional transit authority and Midwest City, Del City, Moore, Edmond, Yukon, and other surrounding areas can help pay for it. Let's get it to work properly and let development spring up around the stations all across the city.

Then, IF the nation decides to invest in HSR, let's get funding for it through the state legislature. That wouldn't be just an OKC project, it would be a statewide project. But I don't need to get from MWC to downtown in 2 1/2 minutes.

[OKVision4U]

1) We don't have the population density of Japan.

2) We aren't connecting people from over 150 miles away from the city center to come into work in the CBD of OKC - there simply aren't enough people.

I don't see why you would suggest having a HSR for LOCAL commuter rail over traditional rail since the speed benefits won't be there. A line from Norman to Downtown is going to likely have a stop in Moore and another in South OKC on its way in. The biggest break is going to be Norman-Moore which is about a 7 mile segment IIRC from the map I did a few months back.

The needs & desires of a passenger in Japan vs. OKC is the same. We have expensive roads in OKC now. ( $200 M for I-240 / I-35 exchange est ) We spend billions of $$$ each year on the ODOT highways and they still cant get it right. We do this for a state w/ 3.4M people? ...we don't have the density for our ODOT budget either, but we continue to punch-out an Overpriced / Cloverleaf product in 2013?

Yes, we need to have this in place for our OKC Metro Cities (Norman to OKC would be first / Edmond to OKC next / MWC to OKC / then Yukon to OKC. Let's take advantage of our lower cost of today, instead of waiting 20 years when it will be 4x the cost for the same thing.

[OKVision4U]

A few billion just for us. The whole system, of course, will be significantly more expensive.

Yes, ODOT is expensive too. Their annual budget is well over the billion mark.

[hoya]

Yes, ODOT is expensive too. Their annual budget is well over the billion mark.

Not wanting to spend several billion dollars on a fantasy high speed rail system does not mean that I like ODOT.

[hoya]

The needs & desires of a passenger in Japan vs. OKC is the same. We have expensive roads in OKC now. ( $200 M for I-240 / I-35 exchange est ) We spend billions of $$$ each year on the ODOT highways and they still cant get it right. We do this for a state w/ 3.4M people? ...we don't have the density for our ODOT budget either, but we continue to punch-out an Overpriced / Cloverleaf product in 2013?

Yes, we need to have this in place for our OKC Metro Cities (Norman to OKC would be first / Edmond to OKC next / MWC to OKC / then Yukon to OKC. Let's take advantage of our lower cost of today, instead of waiting 20 years when it will be 4x the cost for the same thing.

Local rail lines don't need to be high speed rail. Local rail lines have to slow down frequently to pick people up. We don't need to spend ten times the money to shave six minutes off the trip time.

[OKVision4U]

Not wanting to spend several billion dollars on a fantasy high speed rail system does not mean that I like ODOT.

you mean like building an arena in hopes of getting a larger minor league hockey team..., because we never thought we would get an NHL team (okc is too small for an NHL). OH, yeah the NBA was a Top Tier league that would never look at OKC, ever. ( Al Eshbach ).

No, it is not a fantasy, the other countries use it each day.

[OKVision4U]

Local rail lines don't need to be high speed rail. Local rail lines have to slow down frequently to pick people up. We don't need to spend ten times the money to shave six minutes off the trip time.

Very few stops. Norman / South OKC (se 89th , this will include the Moore areas as well) / Downtown. Only 1 stop for the Norman group going to downtown.
Edmond / North OKC (63 rd) / Downtown.
Choctaw / MWC / DT.
Yukon / West OKC ( council ) / DT.

With a MagLev, the bracking times are much more efficient & the speeds are greater. ....not using the Heavy Diesel Engines to power this light rail train.

[venture]

The needs & desires of a passenger in Japan vs. OKC is the same. We have expensive roads in OKC now. ( $200 M for I-240 / I-35 exchange est ) We spend billions of $$$ each year on the ODOT highways and they still cant get it right. We do this for a state w/ 3.4M people? ...we don't have the density for our ODOT budget either, but we continue to punch-out an Overpriced / Cloverleaf product in 2013?

Yes, we need to have this in place for our OKC Metro Cities (Norman to OKC would be first / Edmond to OKC next / MWC to OKC / then Yukon to OKC. Let's take advantage of our lower cost of today, instead of waiting 20 years when it will be 4x the cost for the same thing.

So exactly what are the trip times you figured out that HSR would take doing local rail versus standard commuter rail?

[shawnw]

Heck, since we're sparing no expense at high speed travel, why stop at HSR, give me a freakin transporter. Stop thinking small people we can do this!

[warreng88]

Heck, since we're sparing no expense at high speed travel, why stop at HSR, give me a freakin transporter. Stop thinking small people we can do this!

Dibs on the first jet pack.

[OKVision4U]

Dibs on the first jet pack.

if you guys were to get out a little bit and go to Houston. You can ride one today. w/o the jet pack.

[OKVision4U]

So exactly what are the trip times you figured out that HSR would take doing local rail versus standard commuter rail?

Hey Venture, OKC Metro is fortunate to have the "flat / straight lines" for a higher speed rating on rail up to 150 ish mph in metro, and only a single stop would take you from Norman to Dowtown in only a few minutes. ...

[venture]

Hey Venture, OKC Metro is fortunate to have the "flat / straight lines" for a higher speed rating on rail up to 150 ish mph in metro, and only a single stop would take you from Norman to Dowtown in only a few minutes. ...

So what is the acceleration and deceleration rates? What system are you proposing? What is the cost per mile? What about Moore and South OKC? What are the operating costs for such an operation?

[trousers]

Heck, since we're sparing no expense at high speed travel, why stop at HSR, give me a freakin transporter. Stop thinking small people we can do this!

That would be awesome. You could hop from one Olympic event to another in no time!

[OKVision4U]

That would be awesome. You could hop from one Olympic event to another in no time!

hey pants, you are getting it. ...and some of the events in OKC, you could even walk to.

[warreng88]

Vision, how about you explain how we are going to pay for it?

[OKVision4U]

So what is the acceleration and deceleration rates? What system are you proposing? What is the cost per mile? What about Moore and South OKC? What are the operating costs for such an operation?

Venture, you strike me as a guy that likes some "facts", so here ya go. MagLev is a clean proven system. The ACOG has several (studies you can use as well) that you can read through.

About the Shinkansen | Central Japan Railway Company

This is a company that is successful at this, not just a few idealist.

[catch22]

How about let's get commuter rail going first?

[shawnw]

You act like we don't think this stuff exists or that we wouldn't want to have it. We know it exists. I would be the first one in line if we got it. But I realize the impracticality of thinking our city of 1.2M metro could support a system used by a city/region of 12M+. Another example, the maglev in Shanghai, cost $1.2B to build and it is less than 20 miles long, but it supports a 24M metro population. Let's prove that we can wisely implement and manage our few mile $130M streetcar first, eh? Then lets make sure we can pull off commuter rail. Then, we'll see... baby steps...